I'm not gonna order anything I can't try first. I got a long haid;
round-haid helmets don't fit me worth a damn...and, frankly, IME
fit's a lot more important than all them fancy materials.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

Gil Turner wrote:

shamless self-promotion snipped

This is apparently nothing but one man's crusade against Pro-Tec. I'm
sorry his son was killed, but the fact that he chose a helmet that didn't
fit his head properly doesn't make the product defective. I have one that
stays on and in place just fine. As Mary points out, people's heads are
shaped differently and no single helmet is going to fit everyone
perfectly. Apparently, the two college kids who designed this new helmet
didn't reseach that aspect very thoroughly. Billing this unavailable
product as the "World's Safest Whitewater Helmet" is a bad joke, bordering
on disingenuous. The psuedo-official sounding business name "Whitewater
Research & Safety Institute, Inc." and the BS about issuing a "Voluntary
Recall Demand" is even more misleading.

If the product comes to market and it provides good protection for the
people it fits, so much the better. However, this marketing strategy isn't
fooling anyone and Mr. Turner would do well to consider a different
approach.

I truly hope Mr. Turner isn't going to become the Tim Ingram of helmets.

--
Regards

Brian Nystrom
President, CEO and Grand Pubah
The Institute for Exposing Personal Vendettas Disguised as Official
Agencies

Gil Turner wrote:
Those who will come after him, down the twisting, thundering path of
the whitewater will be able to rely on a helmet that will provide far
greater protection in this extreme, dangerous, but rapidly growing
sport.

I'm sorry to hear about your son's death. That's an interesting motive
for designing a safer white water helmet, one that I can only applaud.
However, I do have some critical notes with this article...

I'm not at all impresssed by claims to be the world's best or safest,
but I am interested to hear how this claim is substantiated. Has this
helmet been compared to other purpose designed white water helmets in
comparatice tests?

I also find several lines in this article misleading or just plainly
wrong. For example, there were at that time (1998) and have been since
several purpose designed white water helmets on the market, from a
couple of brands all over the world. Granted, some are offering better
protection than others, but that's not what the article seems to imply.

On top of that I find the general tone of the article annoying. What
exactly is so extreme and dangerous about this sport?

There are already good products out on the market to protect yourself
against blows to the head and body, from a number of companies. That
said, there will always be a certain risk involved with paddling
whitewater (or any water for that matter).

--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

Wilko kayaker posted:

snip
What
exactly is so extreme and dangerous about this sport?
snip

Ever heard of Big Timber Creek (720 per mile gradiant)? Mesa Falls? The Turners
have.

Dennis

Wilko kayaker posted:

snipIt's one thing to come up with good paddling gear that can
make the risk of injury less, it's another altogether to sensationalize
a sport just to make your point.
snip

All perspective. What would you call it if one of your son's lost his life
paddling 5++ Jacobs Ladder on the Payette (which by the way, he had paddled
many times previously)? What would you call it if your other son and his
friends were traveling the globe making first decents and filming it?

Ever heard of Teton Gravity Research?

Dennis

"Paddlec1" wrote in message
...
All perspective. What would you call it if one of your son's lost his life
paddling 5++ Jacobs Ladder on the Payette (which by the way, he had
paddled
many times previously)? What would you call it if your other son and his
friends were traveling the globe making first decents and filming it?

While I sympathize with the parents on their son's death, I have to question
why a paddler with this much experience and paddling very hard runs like the
ones mentioned above (by the way Jacobs Ladder isn't 5++) was wearing a
Protec helmet. Anyone with any experience should know that there are other
helmets on the market which are more suitable for expert kayaking. This is
not to say that a Protec helmet isn't just fine for Class 3-4. Before making
a choice to paddle expert runs boaters should educate themselves on the pros
and cons of the gear they choose to wear.

pete

Paddlec1 wrote:

Wilko posted:

It's one thing to come up with good paddling gear that can
make the risk of injury less, it's another altogether to sensationalize
a sport just to make your point.

snip

All perspective. What would you call it if one of your son's lost his life
paddling 5++ Jacobs Ladder on the Payette (which by the way, he had paddled
many times previously)? What would you call it if your other son and his
friends were traveling the globe making first decents and filming it?

With all due respect for the man's loss Dennis, that message was worded
in a questionable way. No matter how difficult the water was that his
sons are/were paddling, to state that *all* white water paddling is
extreme and dangerous is nonsense. That's what I'm having an issue with.

Claiming things like the "worlds best" and so on is one thing, but I
would expect that someone who makes such claims at least does enough
research into the sport to know what they're talking about. From what
I've read in his message posted here and on the web, he doesn't impress
me with his knowledge about our sport.

If he wants his product to have some effect on the safety of our sport,
it sure helps to make sure who his target audience is, and how he can
approach them and interest them in his product. IMNSHO this isn't the way.

--
Wilko van den Bergh
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

Brian Nystrom posted:

snip
this marketing strategy isn't
fooling anyone and Mr. Turner would do well to consider a different
approach.

I truly hope Mr. Turner isn't going to become the Tim Ingram of helmets.

--
Regards

Brian Nystrom
President, CEO and Grand Pubah
The Institute for Exposing Personal Vendettas Disguised as Official
Agencies

This may or may not be the worlds safest whitewater helmet, but any helmet that
stays in place (which Protec does not), provides protection from impact (which
Protec does not), and is designed for whitewater (which Protec is not) is
welcome in the paddling community.

Mr. Nystrom, I am totally disgusted by your jumping in to troll a thread of
this kind. If you had a shred of self respect you would restrain yourself this
one time. You would do well to seek professional help for your low self esteem.

Get some therapy.

Dennis

Paddlec1 wrote:

Brian Nystrom posted:

snip
this marketing strategy isn't
fooling anyone and Mr. Turner would do well to consider a different
approach.

I truly hope Mr. Turner isn't going to become the Tim Ingram of helmets.

--
Regards

Brian Nystrom
President, CEO and Grand Pubah
The Institute for Exposing Personal Vendettas Disguised as Official
Agencies

This may or may not be the worlds safest whitewater helmet, but any helmet that
stays in place (which Protec does not),

Nonsense. It may not fit your head, but it fits mine fine and apparently does so
for others here, too.

provides protection from impact (which
Protec does not),

More nonsense. It may not be the most protective helmet on the market, but mine has
done the job for many years in several different activities (cycling, climbing,
paddling). While it carries a fair number of external scars, the shell is intact
and the padding is still resilient.

and is designed for whitewater (which Protec is not)

Well, you're three for three with the nonsense. The fact that the basic Protec
helmet design is adaptable to many uses is a strength, not a vice.


is welcome in the paddling community.

Sure and I said as much.

Mr. Nystrom, I am totally disgusted by your jumping in to troll a thread of
this kind.

Troll nothing. I call it as I see it and this is a pretty clear call. I truly hope
that this turns out to be a useful product, but the marketing approach they've
taken is blatantly misleading. If you can't see this, then order one and see what
happens.

whiney crap snipped

Get a grip.

--
Regards

Brian

The best helmet would be one with a pair of sponsons....


Ed

(ok, ok... I know. I just couldn't resist. grin )