"Michael Daly" wrote in news:VYO6b.416119
:

On 5-Sep-2003, John Fereira wrote:

Take a look at this one...

http://mayfly.mannlib.cornell.edu/pa...tion/marg2.gif

That's Margaret Killen - she's annoying to paddle with because
she's so damn good!! :-) :-)

I know. I was paddling with Ray and Margaret when I took that picture.


I've seen her do stuff that I can only dream of doing. That's a Romany
she's standing in - certainly not a wide kayak!

I was paddling one of her other boats that day. I don't think even she
could stand up in a Foster Rowe Rumour.

"Michael Daly" ) writes:

I take lessons all the time. Who says I pay? Not all lessons are from
professional instructors. I learn from others who are more experienced. You
on the other hand, assume you know everything and can preach about anything.
Yet you prove with your ridiculous claims that you know little at all.

you are backtracking and nit-picking. you introduced the term "formal
instruction" into the discussion, not I. you are just trying to cover your
ass. there is so much material on paddling you need go no further than the
public library for those "advanced techniques" which mos paddler do nto
need because, as I wrote earlier, they are not interested in paddling for
pleasure in rough conditions. paddlers who paddle for their livelyhood are
also nto interested in paddlign in rought conditions. only a few idots are
interested in paddlign in rough conditions for entertainment or to prove
themselves or whatever. the rest of us listen to weather reports and stay
off the water when conditions are likely to be roungh. being "wind bound"
is a paddling traditions. doing a lot og backing and filling and changing
direction just to be contrary and win an hopeless argument.


The greatest paddlers who
made the greatest discoveries never had a lesson.

Bull****. The explorers and traders that opened up North America learned
about canoes and paddling from the first nations. Many explorers had native
guides. The Europeans worked with the first nations to set up the trade they
had. Read Adney and Chappelle for starters - information on how the white
man aquired canoes for the fur trade from the natives.

BS yourself. I'm getting timed out again, just when I'm getting started.
Bill Mason and Eric Morse never took a lesson. Neitehr did nayone in my
family and some of them paddled for thir livlihood. I never had a paddling
lesson. Not needed.

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"William R. Watt" wrote in message

Bill Mason and Eric Morse never took a lesson. Neitehr did nayone in my
family and some of them paddled for thir livlihood. I never had a paddling
lesson. Not needed.


Bill Mason did take lessons by learning from others. It's just that
personal instruction did not exist at his time. If you are ignorant of that
please read "Path of the Paddle" by Bill Mason, first edition, 1980, page 4:
"The fastest way to learn to canoe is with personal instruction. Another is
with the use of book. Film instruction is a third alternative. Probably the
best way is a combination of all three".

Bill Mason's son and daughter, Paul and Becky, are both very much involved
in personal instruction. Paul Mason has also been greatly instrumental in
establishing the standards for certifying canoeing instructors in Canada.
The reasons these standards were set was because people were being harmed
through ignorance. The reason the Ontario Recreational Canoeing Association
(http://www.orca.on.ca/About-Us/index.html) was set up was because 12 kids
died on Lake Tamiskaming due to ignorance of basic technique and safety.

In the very precise sense of the word, in this regard at least, the kindest
thing that I can think of is that you appear very ignorant, William.

Parham.

On 8-Sep-2003, (William R. Watt) wrote:

you are backtracking and nit-picking.

You're loosing it there willy-boy. Take a pill, will you!

which mos paddler do nto
need because, as I wrote earlier, they are not interested in paddling for
pleasure in rough conditions.

As I've said before - if you can't deal with rough conditions, you shouldn't be
kayaking. You can't avoid them all the time. Anyone who assumes that
conditions will be ideal all the time will be caught eventually. You like
libraries? Go read Deep Trouble to add to the other books I've mentioned
and see what happens to paddlers that assume that kayaking in good weather
is always possible.

Bill Mason and Eric Morse never took a lesson.

Bull**** again.

You still haven't addressed anything that I've posted other than to claim I'm wrong.
You haven't answered any of the questions or shown any knowledge of anything I've
challenged you on. You still post irrelevant nonsense and still think you are an
expert even though it's clear that you know very little.

An expert is someone who knows how much he doesn't know and what his limits
are. Since you think you need no lessons and know it all, you clearly are the
most ignorant poster on these newsgroups I've seen in a long time. There's
no prize for proving you're a fool on the Internet, so I suggest you give it up.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...

On 8-Sep-2003, (William R. Watt) wrote:

you are backtracking and nit-picking.

You're loosing it there willy-boy. Take a pill, will you!
..........snip


Mike,

You are arguing with a troll. It is a no win situation. If you ignore him,
maybe he'll go away. If you try to debate with him rationally, you'll
lose--he isn't rational.

We know he's acting like an idiot---but you won't be able to convince him of
it.

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...


An expert is someone who knows how much he doesn't know and what his
limits
are.


"An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until
eventually he knows everything about nothing"

--Anonymous

"Eddy Rapid" ) writes:
"William R. Watt" wrote in message

Bill Mason and Eric Morse never took a lesson. Neitehr did nayone in my
family and some of them paddled for thir livlihood. I never had a paddling
lesson. Not needed.


Bill Mason did take lessons by learning from others. It's just that
personal instruction did not exist at his time. If you are ignorant of that
please read "Path of the Paddle" by Bill Mason, first edition, 1980, page 4:
"The fastest way to learn to canoe is with personal instruction. Another is
with the use of book. Film instruction is a third alternative. Probably the
best way is a combination of all three".

1. you are not defining "lesson". if I watched my father adn granfather
paddle and learned what people who demand payment
for "lessons" call the
"cree" stroke or the "Canadina" stoke as the natural way to paddle,
did I take a "lesson"? no way. did the cree? no way. no semantic games
please. a "lesson" is what somebody get paid to teach. watching somebody
at a distance who doesn't even know they are being watched is not a
"lesson", "formal instruciton", or "certified". what you are doign is
playuing into teh hands of control freaks who set up organizations, rules,
regulations, and certification to impose their way of doing things on others.

2. "the FASTEST way". maybe, maybe not. but if so, then still don't
need lessons. Mason is not saying you need lessons.


Bill Mason's son and daughter, Paul and Becky, are both very much involved
in personal instruction. Paul Mason has also been greatly instrumental in
establishing the standards for certifying canoeing instructors in Canada.

because that's what he does for a living. he gets people to PAY HIM to do
that stuff. he has a vested interest in getting peopel to pay him to take
lessons. he has a vested interest in the government arresting anyone
out paddling without a cedrtified operators permit, renewalbe annyally for
a good stiff fee which pays the salairies of a whole lot of government
job holders who pay union dues to puble sector monopoly unions. he has a
veste interest in armed government partol officers chaning down an
shooting paddler who do not hav an operator's permit to paddle their own
canoes and kayaks.

The reasons these standards were set was because people were being harmed
through ignorance. The reason the Ontario Recreational Canoeing Association
(http://www.orca.on.ca/About-Us/index.html) was set up was because 12 kids
died on Lake Tamiskaming due to ignorance of basic technique and safety.

damn they did not!!! they died because some fool camp counselors who were
being paid to lead the kids on a trip didn't know their goddamned asses
from a hole in the ground. sorry, mac, but its not only the paddler who
are misinformed. that incident is well documented. yiou don't need
lessons. what you need is maturity, experince, and common sense. what
those kids needed was a licenced guide of which there are plenty. not a
certified paddling instructor.


In the very precise sense of the word, in this regard at least, the kindest
thing that I can think of is that you appear very ignorant, William.

don't be condecending. perception is in the mind of the perciever. its you
who are ignorant my son. you're also having a bit of a problem with
language and logic. I blame that on teachers unions.


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On 11-Sep-2003, (William R. Watt) wrote:

you keep calling me an expert. normally I'd be flattered but you calling
someone an expert is nothing to be flattered about.

You're the one claiming expertise without any training.

as it says in the subject "sponsons really work". they do. No BS. you've
written nothing to disprove the statement.

Learn to read. I never said they don't work. I've said they have limitations.
And I said that there are serious limitations on the use of sponsons for kayaks.
You, on the other hand, have been preaching their virtues for kayaks, along with
a lot of other crap based on your lack of knowledge of kayaks.

Its fun watching a puppy chase its own tail. Keep it up.

Looking in a mirror?

Willy-boy - it's time for you to stop ranting.

Mike

On 11-Sep-2003, (William R. Watt) wrote:

1. you are not defining "lesson".

Lesson, from the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

1 : a passage from sacred writings read in a service of worship
2 a : a piece of instruction b : a reading or exercise to be studied
by a pupil c : a division of a course of instruction
3 a : something learned by study or experience his years of travel
had taught him valuable lessons b : an instructive example
the lessons of history

Nothing in there about payment. Why don't you learn to speak the same
version of English that the rest of us do and stop trying to invent your
own language.

he has a vested interest in the government arresting anyone
out paddling without a cedrtified operators permit, renewalbe annyally for
a good stiff fee which pays the salairies of a whole lot of government
job holders who pay union dues to puble sector monopoly unions. he has a
veste interest in armed government partol officers chaning down an
shooting paddler who do not hav an operator's permit to paddle their own
canoes and kayaks.

You're really losing it there, willy-boy. Take a pill.

Mike

On 14-Sep-2003, (William R. Watt) wrote:

the claim I have been countering has been that a person needs instruction
by a certified instructor to be able to paddle a canoe or kayak. certified
instructors demand payment.

I haven't seen anyone make such a claim. You keep claiming that we make
that claim even when we don't.

Yer nothing but a troll, willy-boy. Get a life.

Mike