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#72
posted to rec.boats
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Biden to impeach Obama
wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 06:12:34 -0400, wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:37:33 -0700, wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 12:12:26 -0400, wrote: I enjoy bantering with Plume. The naivete of youth is always refreshing. Gee I didn't realize senility was considered an advantage! LOL I am not the one who has trouble remembering what we were talking about ;-) What were we talking about? Oh wait... Don't ask me, I am senile, now where did I leave my teeth? ;-) It is a strange comment from a person who believes in the unions and their policy of paying the oldest and longest serving employees the most, regardless of performance. Who believes that? I don't think you'll find anyone who does. School teachers. Be sure to let us know when a system is devised that actually is capable of judging teachers on merit. It sure as hell isn't the standardized testing bull****. They don't want to see any merit based pay. This "testing" thing is just a red herring. The unions are not opposed to merit pay that is determined by fair testing on the basis of merit. |
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#73
posted to rec.boats
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Biden to impeach Obama
wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:32:51 -0400, wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:03:24 -0700, wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:49:47 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:37:33 -0700, wrote: It is a strange comment from a person who believes in the unions and their policy of paying the oldest and longest serving employees the most, regardless of performance. Who believes that? I don't think you'll find anyone who does. School teachers. Nonsense. They believe performance does matter, and they're sick of teaching to tests that don't teach kids anything useful except maybe how to take tests. Taking tests is a very important skill but these teachers do not want their salary tied to any measure of performance. They want to be paid by credentials and time in grade. Make that sound reasonable to me.. A totally out of touch teacher with 20 years on the job and a PhD, who gets horrible results, makes 3 times as much as a new teacher who connects with the kids and really gets something done in the classroom. That is ridiculous. Too many variables in your argument. You're making assumptions the kids in each class are pretty much the same kids, with the same home life. When I was in public school, the older, more experienced teachers were by far the better teachers. I did not have that experience with the older teachers and if you are paying for the degree of improvement, kids at risk present more opportunity. No matter what guide you use, old teachers still resist. any system that does not simply pay for credentials and time in grade. They are also the ones who tend to run the education establishment so it will be hard to change that from within. A problem with judging teachers who handle "kids at risk" is that the teachers have absolutely no control over what happens outside of the classroom and school. Teachers cannot force kids or their parents into the correct behavior at home. Teachers cannot control the environment at the kid's home. A hybrid system might work...X amount of pay for experience and credentials, and Y amount above that for producing classes with Z results, assuming the "Z" results are reasonable, attainable, measurable and within the purview of the teacher. |
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#74
posted to rec.boats
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Biden to impeach Obama
wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:34:07 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In , says... On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:03:24 -0700, wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:49:47 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:37:33 -0700, wrote: It is a strange comment from a person who believes in the unions and their policy of paying the oldest and longest serving employees the most, regardless of performance. Who believes that? I don't think you'll find anyone who does. School teachers. Nonsense. They believe performance does matter, and they're sick of teaching to tests that don't teach kids anything useful except maybe how to take tests. Taking tests is a very important skill but these teachers do not want their salary tied to any measure of performance. They want to be paid by credentials and time in grade. Make that sound reasonable to me.. A totally out of touch teacher with 20 years on the job and a PhD, who gets horrible results, makes 3 times as much as a new teacher who connects with the kids and really gets something done in the classroom. That is ridiculous. It's just the way of the unions. When I got laid off from Finast I was number two from the bottom of siniority, so I went second. At the same time, I was consistently in the top ten percent of production, day after day. At the same time the union worked very hard to keep guys caught sleeping in the bathroom or stealing, earning a steady paycheck. There is something inherently wrong with Unions taking millions from their employees, handing it to politicians, and then going to those very same Politicians for negotiations... Period. We just had an article in the paper about suspended employees who were still being paid. Their top example was a teacher who was suspended for sexual assault on a faculty member, off on "suspension" for over a year and still getting the $61,000 salary. Not bad money for staying home and watching soaps all day. This person was reinstated, back to teaching. What do you learn in that class? Hell, man, you guys elected a governor who should be in federal prison. |
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#75
posted to rec.boats
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Biden to impeach Obama
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:28:11 -0400, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:03:24 -0700, wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:49:47 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:37:33 -0700, wrote: It is a strange comment from a person who believes in the unions and their policy of paying the oldest and longest serving employees the most, regardless of performance. Who believes that? I don't think you'll find anyone who does. School teachers. Nonsense. They believe performance does matter, and they're sick of teaching to tests that don't teach kids anything useful except maybe how to take tests. Taking tests is a very important skill but these teachers do not want their salary tied to any measure of performance. They want to be paid by credentials and time in grade. Make that sound reasonable to me.. A totally out of touch teacher with 20 years on the job and a PhD, who gets horrible results, makes 3 times as much as a new teacher who connects with the kids and really gets something done in the classroom. That is ridiculous. It's an important skill but it is not the kind of learning that's important in the long run. Teachers want what's best for students. Feel free to disagree. There are very, very few teachers who are as you describe. Most are dedicated to the students they're teaching and get by on very modest salaries. |
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#76
posted to rec.boats
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Biden to impeach Obama
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:32:51 -0400, Harryk
wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:03:24 -0700, wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:49:47 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:37:33 -0700, wrote: It is a strange comment from a person who believes in the unions and their policy of paying the oldest and longest serving employees the most, regardless of performance. Who believes that? I don't think you'll find anyone who does. School teachers. Nonsense. They believe performance does matter, and they're sick of teaching to tests that don't teach kids anything useful except maybe how to take tests. Taking tests is a very important skill but these teachers do not want their salary tied to any measure of performance. They want to be paid by credentials and time in grade. Make that sound reasonable to me.. A totally out of touch teacher with 20 years on the job and a PhD, who gets horrible results, makes 3 times as much as a new teacher who connects with the kids and really gets something done in the classroom. That is ridiculous. Too many variables in your argument. You're making assumptions the kids in each class are pretty much the same kids, with the same home life. When I was in public school, the older, more experienced teachers were by far the better teachers. Maybe but I had a terrible crush on Mr. Hansen in 8th grade. He was one of the younger ones. Of course, I can't remember a single thing he said. |
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#77
posted to rec.boats
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Biden to impeach Obama
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:28:38 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:34:07 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:03:24 -0700, wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:49:47 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:37:33 -0700, wrote: It is a strange comment from a person who believes in the unions and their policy of paying the oldest and longest serving employees the most, regardless of performance. Who believes that? I don't think you'll find anyone who does. School teachers. Nonsense. They believe performance does matter, and they're sick of teaching to tests that don't teach kids anything useful except maybe how to take tests. Taking tests is a very important skill but these teachers do not want their salary tied to any measure of performance. They want to be paid by credentials and time in grade. Make that sound reasonable to me.. A totally out of touch teacher with 20 years on the job and a PhD, who gets horrible results, makes 3 times as much as a new teacher who connects with the kids and really gets something done in the classroom. That is ridiculous. It's just the way of the unions. When I got laid off from Finast I was number two from the bottom of siniority, so I went second. At the same time, I was consistently in the top ten percent of production, day after day. At the same time the union worked very hard to keep guys caught sleeping in the bathroom or stealing, earning a steady paycheck. There is something inherently wrong with Unions taking millions from their employees, handing it to politicians, and then going to those very same Politicians for negotiations... Period. We just had an article in the paper about suspended employees who were still being paid. Their top example was a teacher who was suspended for sexual assault on a faculty member, off on "suspension" for over a year and still getting the $61,000 salary. Not bad money for staying home and watching soaps all day. This person was reinstated, back to teaching. What do you learn in that class? So, because there's occasionally abuse of the system, that means the system is bankrupt and should be discarded? Nonsense. |
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#78
posted to rec.boats
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Biden to impeach Obama
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:29:51 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:35:42 -0400, Harryk wrote: wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 06:12:34 -0400, wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:37:33 -0700, wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 12:12:26 -0400, wrote: I enjoy bantering with Plume. The naivete of youth is always refreshing. Gee I didn't realize senility was considered an advantage! LOL I am not the one who has trouble remembering what we were talking about ;-) What were we talking about? Oh wait... Don't ask me, I am senile, now where did I leave my teeth? ;-) It is a strange comment from a person who believes in the unions and their policy of paying the oldest and longest serving employees the most, regardless of performance. Who believes that? I don't think you'll find anyone who does. School teachers. Be sure to let us know when a system is devised that actually is capable of judging teachers on merit. It sure as hell isn't the standardized testing bull****. They don't want to see any merit based pay. This "testing" thing is just a red herring. The unions are not opposed to merit pay that is determined by fair testing on the basis of merit. We will see. Scott just signed the bill yesterday that will do that. So far the school union seems pretty much opposed. You tend to end up with a comment like that... "we'll see." Basically, that means you don't know and just guessing. |
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#79
posted to rec.boats
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Biden to impeach Obama
wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:32:51 -0400, wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:03:24 -0700, wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:49:47 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:37:33 -0700, wrote: It is a strange comment from a person who believes in the unions and their policy of paying the oldest and longest serving employees the most, regardless of performance. Who believes that? I don't think you'll find anyone who does. School teachers. Nonsense. They believe performance does matter, and they're sick of teaching to tests that don't teach kids anything useful except maybe how to take tests. Taking tests is a very important skill but these teachers do not want their salary tied to any measure of performance. They want to be paid by credentials and time in grade. Make that sound reasonable to me.. A totally out of touch teacher with 20 years on the job and a PhD, who gets horrible results, makes 3 times as much as a new teacher who connects with the kids and really gets something done in the classroom. That is ridiculous. Too many variables in your argument. You're making assumptions the kids in each class are pretty much the same kids, with the same home life. When I was in public school, the older, more experienced teachers were by far the better teachers. Maybe but I had a terrible crush on Mr. Hansen in 8th grade. He was one of the younger ones. Of course, I can't remember a single thing he said. Most of my public school teachers made really strong, positive impressions on me. In all those years, though, there was only one young woman I considered cute. In those days, just after Franklin "discovered" electricity, the teachers did not have to take the amount of b.s. dished up to them today. |
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#80
posted to rec.boats
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Biden to impeach Obama
On 3/28/2011 2:02 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:29:51 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:35:42 -0400, wrote: wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 06:12:34 -0400, wrote: wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:37:33 -0700, wrote: On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 12:12:26 -0400, wrote: I enjoy bantering with Plume. The naivete of youth is always refreshing. Gee I didn't realize senility was considered an advantage! LOL I am not the one who has trouble remembering what we were talking about ;-) What were we talking about? Oh wait... Don't ask me, I am senile, now where did I leave my teeth? ;-) It is a strange comment from a person who believes in the unions and their policy of paying the oldest and longest serving employees the most, regardless of performance. Who believes that? I don't think you'll find anyone who does. School teachers. Be sure to let us know when a system is devised that actually is capable of judging teachers on merit. It sure as hell isn't the standardized testing bull****. They don't want to see any merit based pay. This "testing" thing is just a red herring. The unions are not opposed to merit pay that is determined by fair testing on the basis of merit. We will see. Scott just signed the bill yesterday that will do that. So far the school union seems pretty much opposed. You tend to end up with a comment like that... "we'll see." Basically, that means you don't know and just guessing. How many lines have you done already today, dear? " we will see" is a perfectly legitimate response. You are implying that Greg should know how this new bill is going to play out. Not everyone is the genius you are. Or maybe it's just your childlike naivete that makes you so sure of yourself. |
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