On Jan 6, 6:51*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 19:37:29 -0400, "YukonBound"



wrote:
Hmmm. I haven't looked at a Honda or its pricing... *:)

Consumer Reports seems to like it...
here's some of their online report...

"Honda RidgelinePhotosVideo

Base MSRP price range:$28,900 - $36,830 HighsRide, handling, powertrain,
rear seat, access, in-bed trunk, dual-action tailgate, crash-test results,
composite bed, reliability. LowsRoad noise, towing capacity, turning circle.
See our user reviewsAlready own it? Write a reviewCar Type: Compact pickup
trucksCR overall score
Honda's pickup truck has agile handling and a ride that's supple and
steady. The tailgate opens vertically or horizontally, and beneath the bed
is an all-weather, lockable trunk. The 3.5-liter V6 is quiet, smooth, and
responsive. Road noise is pronounced. The roomy crew cab is nicely detailed
and easy to access. The five-foot-long cargo bed has no wheel-arch intrusion
and is made of composite material. While not designed for serious
off-roading, the Ridgeline is capable in mild off-road conditions and it can
tow 5,000 pounds

Realibility, ride, owner satisfaction and acceleration are all better than
average but fuel economy is worse.

We looked at a Ridgeline a while ago. It is basically the Odyssey with
a pickup looking body. The road noise thing is typical of all Hondas.
We have had 3 (Accord, CRV and my Prelude) and they all sound like you
are running cheap snow tires.


Really?

My wife just bought a 2009 CRV and even though I'm really nit
impressed with the ride (I'm biased, I drive large float-mobiles), I
thought it was pretty quiet. and it gets about 30 mpg. highway...

On 1/6/11 10:25 PM, I am Tosk wrote:


I still hate front wheel drive.. Just doesn't make sense to have the
steering and drive on the same axle,

Please explain.

In article , payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 1/6/11 10:25 PM, I am Tosk wrote:


I still hate front wheel drive.. Just doesn't make sense to have the
steering and drive on the same axle,

Please explain.

Well, I can as the real Harry, because if you remember, I took many
mechanical engineering courses. First of all, when the driven wheels are
also the steering wheels, there are parts that are under a LOT of stress
at times, such as the CV joints. Then if you lose traction like in snow,
no steering. Simple as that.

On 1/7/11 8:43 AM, HarryK wrote:
In , payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 1/6/11 10:25 PM, I am Tosk wrote:


I still hate front wheel drive.. Just doesn't make sense to have the
steering and drive on the same axle,

Please explain.

Well, I can as the real Harry, because if you remember, I took many
mechanical engineering courses. First of all, when the driven wheels are
also the steering wheels, there are parts that are under a LOT of stress
at times, such as the CV joints. Then if you lose traction like in snow,
no steering. Simple as that.

There are many advantages of rear wheel drive over front wheel drive,
and they have been discussed for many years by auto engineers. A quick
Google came up with this:

1) "Balance": The car rides on four patches of rubber, each about as big
as your hand. An ideal car would distribute its weight evenly, so each
tire had to bear the same load, and none would give way earlier than all
the others. The ideal weight distribution, then, would be split about
50/50 between front and rear (actually, 48/52 to help with forward pitch
during braking). "A rear-drive car can typically approach that," says
Zellner. Engineers can move the front wheels forward, so that the engine
– which doesn't have to be connected to those wheels -- sits behind the
front axle. Meanwhile, the driveshaft and rear differential (necessary
to send power to the rear tires) add weight in the rear. Front-drive
cars, which must connect the engine and transmission to the front axle,
typically have their engines mounted way forward and can't do much
better than a 60/40 front/rear weight distribution.

2) Center of Gravity: This is the point the car wants to "rotate around"
in a turn. On a rear-drive car, it's "about where the driver sits," says
Zellner. In a turn, in other words, the car seems to be rotating around
you – you're at the center. It's a natural pleasant effect, suggesting
you're in control, the way you're in control when you're walking or
running around a corner and your weight is centered inside you. (Analogy
No. 2: It's like wearing stereo headphones and having the sound centered
between your ears!) A front-drive car, in contrast, with its massive
front weight bias, wants to rotate around a point in front of the
driver. So in a corner, the driver isn't just rotating around his spine.
He's moving sideways, as if he were a tether ball on the end of a rope,
or Linus being dragged when Snoopy gets hold of his blanket. Not such a
pleasant feeling, or a feeling that gives you a sense of natural control.

3) "Torque Steer": One of the most annoying habits of many powerful
front-drive cars is that they don't go straight when you step on the
accelerator! Instead, they pull to one side, requiring you to steer in
the other direction to compensate, like on a damn boat. This "torque
steer" usually happens because the drive shafts that connect the engine
to the front wheels aren't the same length. Under power, the shafts wind
up like springs. The longer shaft -- typically on the right -- winds up
a bit more, while the shorter left shaft winds up less and transmits its
power to the ground more quickly, which has the effect of pulling the
car to the left. (This winding-up phenomenon occurs the moment you step
on the pedal. After that, the wind-up relaxes, but "torque steer" can
still be produced by the angles of the joints in the drive axles as the
whole drivetrain twists on its rubber mounts.)

Veer madness?Veer madness?Engineers try various strategies to control
this veering tendency, but even designing shafts of equal length (as in
all Cadillacs) doesn't completely solve the problem because the engine
still twists a bit in its mounts and alters the angles of the drive
shafts. True, some manufacturers -- Audi, for example -- are said to do
a particularly good job of repressing torque steer . But even a top-rank
company such as Nissan has problems -- its otherwise appealing new
front-drive Maxima is said to be plagued by big-time, uninhibited torque
steer. Rear-drive cars, meanwhile, don't really have a torque-steer
problem that needs repressing. Their power goes to the rear through one
driveshaft to a center differential that can a) have equal-length shafts
coming out from it and b) be more firmly mounted.

4) Weight Shift: Suppose you just want to go in a straight line. What's
the best way to get traction? Answer: Have as much weight over the
driving wheels as possible. Front-drive cars start with an advantage --
but when any car accelerates, the front end tips up, and the rear end
squats down. This transfers weight to the rear wheels -- away from the
driving wheels in a FWD car but toward the driving wheels in a
rear-drive car, where it adds to available traction. In effect, the laws
of physics conspire to give RWD cars a bit more grip where they need it
when they need it. (This salutary effect is more than canceled out in
slippery, wet conditions, where you aren't going to stomp on the
accelerator. Then, FWD cars have the edge, in part, because they start
out with so much more of their weight over both the driving and the
turning wheels. Also, it's simply more stable to pull a heavy wheeled
object than to push it -- as any hotel bellhop steering a loaded luggage
cart knows. In snow, FWD cars have a third advantage in that they pull
the car through the path the front tires create, instead of turning the
front tires into mini-snowplows.)

5) "Oversteer" and the Semi-Orgasmic Lock-In Effect: In a rear-drive
car, there's a division of labor -- the front tires basically steer the
car, and the rear tires push the car down the road. In a FWD car, the
front tires do all the work – both steering and applying the power to
the road – while the rears are largely along for the ride. That, it
turns out, is asking a lot of the front tires. Since the driving wheels
tend to lose traction first, the front tires of front-drive cars
invariably start slipping in a corner before the lightly loaded rear
tires do -- a phenomenon known as "understeer." If you go too fast into
a curve -- I mean really too fast -- the car will plow off the road
front end first. In rear-drive cars, the rear wheels tend to lose
traction first, and the rear of the car threatens to swing around and
pass the front end -- "oversteer." If you go too fast into a corner in
an oversteering car, the car will tend to spin and fly off the road rear
end first.

On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:

And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit the
gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this
without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in my
Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I
came around I stayed in the throttle to turn the vehicle and we hit rear
end first, nobody was injured. This doesn't work well in four wheel
either so back then I used to stay in 2 wheel until I needed it to pull
out of something. Now with crazy computer controlled traction on my new
Jeep, I let it decide how to act, you just can't drive it fast though,
not what it's made for. If you try to take a fast corner, the computer
brakes wheels and tries to get you back unless you switch it off



The top performing rally cars are FWD and 4WD. Whatever problems you are
having with your vehicles is attributable to your driving skills or lack
of same.

In article ,
says...

On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:

And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit the
gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this
without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in my
Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I
came around I stayed in the throttle to turn the vehicle and we hit rear
end first, nobody was injured. This doesn't work well in four wheel
either so back then I used to stay in 2 wheel until I needed it to pull
out of something. Now with crazy computer controlled traction on my new
Jeep, I let it decide how to act, you just can't drive it fast though,
not what it's made for. If you try to take a fast corner, the computer
brakes wheels and tries to get you back unless you switch it off



The top performing rally cars are FWD and 4WD. Whatever problems you are
having with your vehicles is attributable to your driving skills or lack
of same.

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/snwvlly/fwd.html

http://www.slate.com/id/2081194/

http://www.moderncamaro.com/forum/sh...t=27689&page=2

On 1/7/11 10:51 AM, I am Tosk wrote:


Harry doesn't know the difference between FWD, 4WD, and AWD...



How is that front-wheel drive Torino of your buddy's, mr. mushroom?

On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit the
gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this
without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in my
Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I
came around I stayed in the throttle t

There are advantages of front wheel drive which include

Lower cost - you have reduced the cost of the driveshaft and additional
hardware. The has an advantage of providing better fuel economy due to
weight reduction.

Cabin Space You have increased the space inside of the car, by removing
the drivetrain

Traction - with the weight of the engine over the drive wheels you can
have better traction in slippery conditions

That being said, there are many automotive enthusiasts and engineers
who agree with you that front wheel drive sucks. Auto design like boat
design is a series of compromises.

On Jan 7, 9:27*am, "A.True.Boater" wrote:
On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:

And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit the
gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this
without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in my
Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I
came around I stayed in the throttle t

There are advantages of front wheel drive which include

Lower cost - you have reduced the cost of the driveshaft and additional
hardware. *The has an advantage of providing better fuel economy due to
weight reduction.

Cabin Space You have increased the space inside of the car, by removing
the drivetrain


Back to this one... Show me the Money!!! ??? When was the last time
you saw a front wheel drive that had more room? The Spyder is FWD but
with the bucket seats and huge console glove box, it has less room
than my old CJ... The last FWD car I saw that actually gained room
was my buddies old Ford Torino and that was in the 70's iirc...

Traction - with the weight of the engine over the drive wheels you can
have better traction in slippery conditions

That being said, there are many automotive enthusiasts and engineers
who agree with you that front wheel drive sucks. *Auto design like boat
design is a series of compromises.

On 1/7/11 10:16 AM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute! wrote:

Back to this one... Show me the Money!!! ??? When was the last time
you saw a front wheel drive that had more room? The Spyder is FWD but
with the bucket seats and huge console glove box, it has less room
than my old CJ... The last FWD car I saw that actually gained room
was my buddies old Ford Torino and that was in the 70's iirc...

Your buddy's Torino had front wheel drive, eh?

You need to cut back on the mushrooms.

Perhaps your buddy had a Olds Toronado, an interesting FWD car GM
produced for many years. After all, it was easy to confuse the two. Jay
Leno has a rebuilt and highly customized '66 Toronado with about a
zillion horsepower.