On 10/13/10 1:39 PM, Jack wrote:

"The standard of living in the United States is one of the highest in
the world by almost any measure. On measures such as the UN Human
Development Index the United States is always in the top ten."

"Americans are some of the wealthiest people in the world, with a very
high GDP per capita. Americans are top in the world for most material
possessions."

High GDP and material possessions are not the indicators of quality of
life.

--
I'm not a warlock . . . I'm you!

On Oct 13, 1:50*pm, Secular Humouresque wrote:
On 10/13/10 1:39 PM, Jack wrote:



"The standard of living in the United States is one of the highest in
the world by almost any measure. On measures such as the UN Human
Development Index the United States is always in the top ten."

"Americans are some of the wealthiest people in the world, with a very
high GDP per capita. Americans are top in the world for most material
possessions."

High GDP and material possessions are not the indicators of quality of
life.

Lack of money and having no material possessions are not indicators of
a good quality of life, at least by the vast majority of people.

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On Oct 13, 1:50 pm, Secular Humouresque wrote:
On 10/13/10 1:39 PM, Jack wrote:



"The standard of living in the United States is one of the highest in
the world by almost any measure. On measures such as the UN Human
Development Index the United States is always in the top ten."

"Americans are some of the wealthiest people in the world, with a very
high GDP per capita. Americans are top in the world for most material
possessions."

High GDP and material possessions are not the indicators of quality of
life.

Lack of money and having no material possessions are not indicators of
a good quality of life, at least by the vast majority of people.

I agree... unfortunately, that's the problem in this country... those items
are concentrated in the top percentages.

On Oct 13, 6:17*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message

...





On Oct 13, 1:50 pm, Secular Humouresque wrote:
On 10/13/10 1:39 PM, Jack wrote:

"The standard of living in the United States is one of the highest in
the world by almost any measure. On measures such as the UN Human
Development Index the United States is always in the top ten."

"Americans are some of the wealthiest people in the world, with a very
high GDP per capita. Americans are top in the world for most material
possessions."

High GDP and material possessions are not the indicators of quality of
life.

Lack of money and having no material possessions are not indicators of
a good quality of life, at least by the vast majority of people.

I agree... unfortunately, that's the problem in this country... those items
are concentrated in the top percentages.

Really? Middle-class people in the US have several cars, nice houses,
big-screen HD TVs, send their kids to private schools, and own boats.
You were saying?

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On Oct 13, 6:17 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message

...





On Oct 13, 1:50 pm, Secular Humouresque wrote:
On 10/13/10 1:39 PM, Jack wrote:

"The standard of living in the United States is one of the highest
in
the world by almost any measure. On measures such as the UN Human
Development Index the United States is always in the top ten."

"Americans are some of the wealthiest people in the world, with a
very
high GDP per capita. Americans are top in the world for most
material
possessions."

High GDP and material possessions are not the indicators of quality of
life.

Lack of money and having no material possessions are not indicators of
a good quality of life, at least by the vast majority of people.

I agree... unfortunately, that's the problem in this country... those
items
are concentrated in the top percentages.

Really? Middle-class people in the US have several cars, nice houses,
big-screen HD TVs, send their kids to private schools, and own boats.
You were saying?

Really, several cars? All of them new I suppose. And, they send them to
private schools. And, they only eat caviar I'm guessing.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

I agree... unfortunately, that's the problem in this country... those
items
are concentrated in the top percentages.

Really? Middle-class people in the US have several cars, nice houses,
big-screen HD TVs, send their kids to private schools, and own boats.
You were saying?


Plume doesn't even think I am middle class ($70-80k) and we have all
of that stuff ... paid for ... no debt.

I'm sure you are. Some people do fine and pay off their debt. That's not
typical, unfortunately.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:36:04 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

I agree... unfortunately, that's the problem in this country... those
items
are concentrated in the top percentages.

Really? Middle-class people in the US have several cars, nice houses,
big-screen HD TVs, send their kids to private schools, and own boats.
You were saying?


Plume doesn't even think I am middle class ($70-80k) and we have all
of that stuff ... paid for ... no debt.

I'm sure you are. Some people do fine and pay off their debt. That's not
typical, unfortunately.


That is a cultural problem promoted in the 70s when we were told it
was better to "use other people's money and pay them back with
inflated dollars".
I never bought into it but there are lots of people who fell for the
debt trap.
I was saved by a stock broker named John Flick from AG Edwards who sat
me down in 1971 or so and ran the numbers of that "live on credit"
lifestyle. Then he showed what happens when you save up money to buy
things. It didn't take long for me to understand I was too poor to
borrow money.
I will say it again. If you are too poor to pay your bills, how can
you afford to pay your bills plus paying a banker 20% (now 29.999%)
You can be broke at zero or you can live large a little longer and be
broke at your credit limit, hoping the bankruptcy court will make your
neighbors pay your bills.

I will say it again. When you have a relatively low monthly payment, even
though the interest rate is very high, you can typically make the payments
for some period of time. As a short-term solution, it works. Of course, for
long-term, the principal balance needs to be paid off.

Do you not understand this basic concept?

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 10:24:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That is a cultural problem promoted in the 70s when we were told it
was better to "use other people's money and pay them back with
inflated dollars".
I never bought into it but there are lots of people who fell for the
debt trap.
I was saved by a stock broker named John Flick from AG Edwards who sat
me down in 1971 or so and ran the numbers of that "live on credit"
lifestyle. Then he showed what happens when you save up money to buy
things. It didn't take long for me to understand I was too poor to
borrow money.
I will say it again. If you are too poor to pay your bills, how can
you afford to pay your bills plus paying a banker 20% (now 29.999%)
You can be broke at zero or you can live large a little longer and be
broke at your credit limit, hoping the bankruptcy court will make your
neighbors pay your bills.

I will say it again. When you have a relatively low monthly payment, even
though the interest rate is very high, you can typically make the payments
for some period of time. As a short-term solution, it works. Of course,
for
long-term, the principal balance needs to be paid off.

Do you not understand this basic concept?


You do not understand that this is how they sell the debt trap.
It always gets rationalized as a temporary solution and it becomes a
lifestyle.
The reality is you can eat bologna now and save your money or you can
be up to your ass in debt and eat bologna for the rest of your life.
Unfortunately our government is the worst offender, dooming our kids
to a lifetime of debt.

Sure.. we all get it, but the point is that some people have little choice.
They either borrow or their kids don't eat. Feel free to blame them of
course.

On Oct 13, 10:47*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

I agree... unfortunately, that's the problem in this country... those items
are concentrated in the top percentages.

Really? *Middle-class people in the US have several cars, nice houses,
big-screen HD TVs, send their kids to private schools, and own boats.
You were saying?

Plume doesn't even think I am middle class ($70-80k) and we have all
of that stuff *... paid for ... no debt.

That's because you aren't one of the "I'm entitled to it" crowd. My
hat's off to you... there aren't many like you around these days.

It seems that a lot of people don't realize that the average "middle-
class" family here in the US lives much better than the average
"middle-class" family in the European countries they so love.
Interseting that 3 different European transplants I know that came to
the US many years ago always pined for their home country, saying how
much "better" it was. After finally retiring or vacationing back in
their home countries, *every one* of them came back to the US to
retire and live out their life, finally admitting that it was better
here. I know no one that went back to Europe to retire and stayed
there.

I don't understand where the self-hate comes from.

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On Oct 13, 10:47 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

I agree... unfortunately, that's the problem in this country... those
items
are concentrated in the top percentages.

Really? Middle-class people in the US have several cars, nice houses,
big-screen HD TVs, send their kids to private schools, and own boats.
You were saying?

Plume doesn't even think I am middle class ($70-80k) and we have all
of that stuff ... paid for ... no debt.

That's because you aren't one of the "I'm entitled to it" crowd. My
hat's off to you... there aren't many like you around these days.

It seems that a lot of people don't realize that the average "middle-
class" family here in the US lives much better than the average
"middle-class" family in the European countries they so love.
Interseting that 3 different European transplants I know that came to
the US many years ago always pined for their home country, saying how
much "better" it was. After finally retiring or vacationing back in
their home countries, *every one* of them came back to the US to
retire and live out their life, finally admitting that it was better
here. I know no one that went back to Europe to retire and stayed
there.

I don't understand where the self-hate comes from.


Please show us where there's self-hate. I see self-awareness.

So, the middle class in this country lives much better. Certainly the poor
don't live at the same level, but beyond that, all you've said is "lives
much better." There are, as I've said, plenty of measures out there that
seem to disagree. Care you cite some actual facts or are you just giving
your opinion?