On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:01:57 -0400, "mmc" wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:31:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:19:04 -0400, wrote:


but the right wing would NEVER have supported this...they WANTED the
insurance companies to have a voice...

oh...wait...the companies DID...


Hillary came up with the framework for what we ended up with when she was
championing healthcare reform during Bill Clinton's presidency.
She wanted to make health insurance mandatory for all and for those that
fell below the line our taxes would pay for it

in a sense we already do. who do you think pays for emergency care
for people who can't afford it?

.. If you were above the line,
you pay the insurance company or handed the money in as a tax and the gov't
paid the insurance company.
Same smelly funk that we have now. Nothing done to fix the supply side
(corporate $$$$ giants) just bleed a little more out of the demand side
(us).
Either way it was a HUGE friggin payday for the health insurance industry.
Had she swung it, the industry may have bought her the presidency.
Your party is as dirty as the other.

at least money is going to the middle class in benefits. not to the
rich in CDO's

On 7/18/10 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:26:36 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:31:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:19:04 -0400, wrote:


BS. The insurance companies have no business deciding anything related to
healthcare. They charge a lot and do nothing.

Then why did Harry Reid let them write the Senate bill? It is a fact
that it was written by a couple of lobbyists who were from UHC.

He didn't. That's a complete distortion. Are you claiming that you were more
in favor of the House version? If so, I agree. It was better. The one that
finally passed had lots of compromise built in. That's call politics. It's
also not the end of the line for reform.


That right wing network PBS reported it on Frontline, naming the
lobbyists. I suppose they could have lied but nobody called them on
it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl... rce=proglist


so what your OWN reference says is that, like ALL legislation, the
powerful interest groups had a voice in it...

gee. tell it to the NRA. i suppose they don't do this, do they?

obama was working within the current system. the logical choiice would
have been to dismantle the insurance companies and go to a single
payer system

but the right wing would NEVER have supported this...they WANTED the
insurance companies to have a voice...

oh...wait...the companies DID...


The point was that you like to blame the GOP for everything bad that
happens to you but they were the only ones who had NO voice in this
medical legislation you are now criticizing.


That's not true. Health care reform was watered down repeatedly in order
to attract some Republican votes. But no matter what the Dems did, the
Repubs would not go for it because real reform would not be good for
their insurance company owners and, of course, the stated GOP leader
goal of doing whatever it could to "destroy" the Obama presidency.

On 18/07/2010 11:07 AM, Harry  wrote:
On 7/18/10 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:26:36 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:31:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:19:04 -0400, wrote:


BS. The insurance companies have no business deciding anything
related to
healthcare. They charge a lot and do nothing.

Then why did Harry Reid let them write the Senate bill? It is a fact
that it was written by a couple of lobbyists who were from UHC.

He didn't. That's a complete distortion. Are you claiming that you
were more
in favor of the House version? If so, I agree. It was better. The
one that
finally passed had lots of compromise built in. That's call
politics. It's
also not the end of the line for reform.


That right wing network PBS reported it on Frontline, naming the
lobbyists. I suppose they could have lied but nobody called them on
it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl... rce=proglist



so what your OWN reference says is that, like ALL legislation, the
powerful interest groups had a voice in it...

gee. tell it to the NRA. i suppose they don't do this, do they?

obama was working within the current system. the logical choiice would
have been to dismantle the insurance companies and go to a single
payer system

but the right wing would NEVER have supported this...they WANTED the
insurance companies to have a voice...

oh...wait...the companies DID...


The point was that you like to blame the GOP for everything bad that
happens to you but they were the only ones who had NO voice in this
medical legislation you are now criticizing.


That's not true. Health care reform was watered down repeatedly in order
to attract some Republican votes. But no matter what the Dems did, the
Repubs would not go for it because real reform would not be good for
their insurance company owners and, of course, the stated GOP leader
goal of doing whatever it could to "destroy" the Obama presidency.

Dems watered it down, GOP was against it to the wire. Dems forced it.
Any watering or problems, the be 100% on the democriters heads. Don't
weasel on it.

--

Government has liberals, idealists and lawyers, but where is the common
sense?

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:23:51 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:07:05 -0400, Harry ?
wrote:

The point was that you like to blame the GOP for everything bad that
happens to you but they were the only ones who had NO voice in this
medical legislation you are now criticizing.


That's not true. Health care reform was watered down repeatedly in order
to attract some Republican votes. But no matter what the Dems did, the
Repubs would not go for it because real reform would not be good for
their insurance company owners and, of course, the stated GOP leader
goal of doing whatever it could to "destroy" the Obama presidency.

That may have been true of the house bill but the Senate bill was
simply written and voted on in an up/down party line vote. The Senate
GOP leaders made it very clear they were not part of the process in
any way. Unfortunately the bill itself was simply a gift to all of the
special interests that the Democrats were demonizing in public.

uh let'ssee...the GOP healtchare reform?

none. they catered to the insurance companies by doing NOTHING...

They
used the rationalization that any bill called "health care" was better
than nothing. We are starting to see that may not be right and we are
just starting to see the ramifications of the language that nobody
read. By 2014, when the biggest parts of the bill come on line, I
expect to see massive public outrage.

blah blah blah...when has the right wing crystal ball been right?

when free market fundies deregulated wall street? how'd THAT work out?

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:26:36 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:31:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:19:04 -0400, wrote:


BS. The insurance companies have no business deciding anything
related to
healthcare. They charge a lot and do nothing.

Then why did Harry Reid let them write the Senate bill? It is a fact
that it was written by a couple of lobbyists who were from UHC.

He didn't. That's a complete distortion. Are you claiming that you were
more
in favor of the House version? If so, I agree. It was better. The one
that
finally passed had lots of compromise built in. That's call politics.
It's
also not the end of the line for reform.


That right wing network PBS reported it on Frontline, naming the
lobbyists. I suppose they could have lied but nobody called them on
it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl... rce=proglist


so what your OWN reference says is that, like ALL legislation, the
powerful interest groups had a voice in it...

gee. tell it to the NRA. i suppose they don't do this, do they?

obama was working within the current system. the logical choiice would
have been to dismantle the insurance companies and go to a single
payer system

but the right wing would NEVER have supported this...they WANTED the
insurance companies to have a voice...

oh...wait...the companies DID...


The point was that you like to blame the GOP for everything bad that
happens to you but they were the only ones who had NO voice in this
medical legislation you are now criticizing.

The point is that the GOP refused to cooperate with ANYTHING. So, yes, I
pretty much blame them for most everything that doesn't get done in DC.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:53:07 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:26:36 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:31:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:19:04 -0400, wrote:



so what your OWN reference says is that, like ALL legislation, the
powerful interest groups had a voice in it...

gee. tell it to the NRA. i suppose they don't do this, do they?

obama was working within the current system. the logical choiice would
have been to dismantle the insurance companies and go to a single
payer system

but the right wing would NEVER have supported this...they WANTED the
insurance companies to have a voice...

oh...wait...the companies DID...


The point was that you like to blame the GOP for everything bad that
happens to you but they were the only ones who had NO voice in this
medical legislation you are now criticizing.

uh no. first, the GOP would never have permitted the BEST solution...a
single payer system...to take hold. THEY guarded the insurance
companies under the guise of 'free enterprise'.

2nd the GOP has been ranting about 'rationing'....it's already being
done by their friends the insurance companies

3rd we DID have a voice...that's why we got SOME health reform that
will cover almost everyone AND, according to the CBPP, will reduce the
deficit

conservatives? free market fundamentalists that led to our current
meltdown

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:19:00 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

The point was that you like to blame the GOP for everything bad that
happens to you but they were the only ones who had NO voice in this
medical legislation you are now criticizing.

uh no. first, the GOP would never have permitted the BEST solution...a
single payer system...to take hold. THEY guarded the insurance
companies under the guise of 'free enterprise'.

The American public rejects single payer in most polls.


2nd the GOP has been ranting about 'rationing'....it's already being
done by their friends the insurance companies

Then why are you shocked in the top note of this thread?



Nope. Wrong again:

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:47:52 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:19:00 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

The point was that you like to blame the GOP for everything bad that
happens to you but they were the only ones who had NO voice in this
medical legislation you are now criticizing.

uh no. first, the GOP would never have permitted the BEST solution...a
single payer system...to take hold. THEY guarded the insurance
companies under the guise of 'free enterprise'.

The American public rejects single payer in most polls.

because they believe right wing bull****. they reject a system that
works because of their belief in a myth of a free economy

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:19:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 23:38:52 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 22:08:50 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
om...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 23:50:51 -0400, bpuharic
wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38294522...ew_york_times/

insurance companies are starting to ration care by choosing which
doctors they'll let you see.

so much for free enterprise.

This is not "free enterprise".It is regulated enterprise.
When the health care law limited what the plan would charge, they
couldn't afford to pay the good doctors.
You are still free to pay more but now your government mandated
insurance will not cover it.
I think I warned you.

BS. The insurance companies have no business deciding anything related
to
healthcare. They charge a lot and do nothing.

Then why did Harry Reid let them write the Senate bill? It is a fact
that it was written by a couple of lobbyists who were from UHC.

He didn't. That's a complete distortion. Are you claiming that you were
more
in favor of the House version? If so, I agree. It was better. The one
that
finally passed had lots of compromise built in. That's call politics.
It's
also not the end of the line for reform.


That right wing network PBS reported it on Frontline, naming the
lobbyists. I suppose they could have lied but nobody called them on
it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl... rce=proglist

Well, read it again. Thanks to people like Nelson more vs. less compromise
had to happen. You claimed it was Harry Reid's fault. Now, it's Obama's
fault. No way it could be Sen. Pull-the-plug-on-grandma Grassley.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:35:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:19:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 23:38:52 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
om...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 22:08:50 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:ra0546d707tfib2mgnq51nccden5d6uuko@4ax .com...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 23:50:51 -0400, bpuharic
wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38294522...ew_york_times/

insurance companies are starting to ration care by choosing which
doctors they'll let you see.

so much for free enterprise.

This is not "free enterprise".It is regulated enterprise.
When the health care law limited what the plan would charge, they
couldn't afford to pay the good doctors.
You are still free to pay more but now your government mandated
insurance will not cover it.
I think I warned you.

BS. The insurance companies have no business deciding anything
related
to
healthcare. They charge a lot and do nothing.

Then why did Harry Reid let them write the Senate bill? It is a fact
that it was written by a couple of lobbyists who were from UHC.

He didn't. That's a complete distortion. Are you claiming that you were
more
in favor of the House version? If so, I agree. It was better. The one
that
finally passed had lots of compromise built in. That's call politics.
It's
also not the end of the line for reform.


That right wing network PBS reported it on Frontline, naming the
lobbyists. I suppose they could have lied but nobody called them on
it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl... rce=proglist

Well, read it again. Thanks to people like Nelson more vs. less compromise
had to happen. You claimed it was Harry Reid's fault. Now, it's Obama's
fault. No way it could be Sen. Pull-the-plug-on-grandma Grassley.


You didn't watch the show. There is a lot more in there than the
program notes on that page.

In any case, Grassley and his kind have no credibility wrt to healthcare
insurance reform.