OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:40:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

China is still propping us up but that could change. To say there are
no problems in Europe is just naive. Greece still has not agreed to
the reforms necessary to get their house in order and the population
is rioting in the street over it. They are telling people they will
actually have to pay the taxes necessary to support their expenditures
and pensioners are going to get a pay cut along with all of the
government workers.
We will have riots here when we get there too.

Umm... who said Europe doesn't have problems? Again, there is no melt-down
crisis looming. It's just not the case. Most societies adjust to financial
changes. The riots will not be televised... lol


It really all depends on how well Greece swallows the turd. Germany
will revolt if Greece gets to keep their "generous gifts" and the
Germans have to pay for it.

BTW great Gil Scott Heron reference ;-)

For you folks who weren't alive in the 60s
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Gil%...elevised. mp3

I don't think Greece has much choice really. They've pretty much agreed to
do it.

I was wondering if you'd notice that! :) I heard that song a few years ago
and it stuck in my head for months... a bit before my time, however!

OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:43:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 09:01:38 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 00:00:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Again, there's no expectation of "global" war. Who exactly are we going
to
fight that's capable of any kind of sustained major campaign??

Some might very well argue that we are already in the early stages of
a global war against religious extremists. Unfortunately I don't see
that situation getting better any time soon. How long did the
crusades last in the middle ages, and how/why did they end?

Some could argue we are still watching the crusades.

The classic crusades ended because Europe had their ass handed to them
about 5 times in a row.
I suspect we will lose this one too but I said that in 1991. We really
should have taken the advice of those who said we should have put that
early victory in our pocket and gone home. I knew we wouldn't.

That is the same thing that happened to the first crusaders. One win
and then a string of "ties" and humiliating losses after that, until
they finally just stopped.

Talk about whistling... this is just paranoid thinking. You act like
there's
an evil empire out there just waiting to attack. Sheesh.

The enemy is debt.

And, the enemy has been identified and steps are being taken...

OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:42:44 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Again, there's no expectation of "global" war. Who exactly are we going
to
fight that's capable of any kind of sustained major campaign??

Some might very well argue that we are already in the early stages of
a global war against religious extremists. Unfortunately I don't see
that situation getting better any time soon. How long did the
crusades last in the middle ages, and how/why did they end?

They don't have the capacity to do much damage, not even with a nuclear
device. We (and Obama is trying to do this) need to change how we look at
who we're fighting. There have always been religious extremist and always
will be.

The bad thing about nukes is you don't need many to change life on
earth.

The chance that a bin laden would be able to get more than one (or a tiny
one) is infinitesimally small. Even delivering it is a major undertaking.


The Crusades? Where Christians hacked people up with sharpened crosses?

Sure, at first, then like our crusade, the tables turned and it was
the crusaders who were being hacked up. Of the 7 or 8 crusades
(depending on how you count), the Europeans really only won the first
one decisively.
We are having our Vietnam moment now. We win every battle and we are
still losing the war because the other side will not accept defeat.
Eventually we will come home but not until we have a president with
the integrity of Jerry Ford.

We had our VN moment during the VN war. We are dealing with the situation in
Afg., and it's possible to solve at least most of the problem.

Not sure about Ford. He pardoned Nixon, which I suppose was the right thing
to do. I believe Obama has plenty of integrity, esp. compared to recent
presidents. Bush II was a conniving *******. Clinton was obviously flawed
personally, but did a lot of good for minorities, the economy and the
environment (not enough for all of those). Bush I was, at least intelligent,
unlike his son. Carter was a good, honest man, but a lousy president (he's
an amazing ex-pres, however). Reagan was a decent guy. I don't like a lot of
things he did, but he wasn't' dishonest. Nixon, besides being a crook, was a
smart guy and didn't let his crookdom get in the way of policy. Johnson was
a conniving ****heel, but did many things right (and some big things wrong,
and will never be forgiven for some of them). Kennedy was basically decent,
but was flawed personally. When pressed, he had good instincts, but make
major mistakes during his brief presidency. Eisenhower was a decent guy, but
gave us Nixon and allowed McCarthy to blather on.

OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:45:49 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

In the short term you are right but if you look at just the bad things
that happened in the 20th century. The depression resulted in WWII and
tens of millions of people died. I suppose that "worked out OK".
Unfortunately that will be nothing compared to a nuclear war. Who will
get it started? Most likely it will involve Israel and one of the
Islamic countries but, just like WWI, it could quickly escalate to the
world powers.

Perhaps worse might actually be an economic war where all of this
phony paper we call money collapses and people start fighting for
resources because they can't buy them anymore. In that war the Chinese
win because they can just sit back and watch. Their people will suffer
for a few years but they have the industrial capacity the US had in
1945 so they will be staged to take over the world.

The depression didn't result in WW2. Come on. The depression (at least in
Germany) resulted from them being punished excessively for WWI.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling.... NOT


Without the depression, Hitler would not have been able to take power
and the war was certainly what ended the depression. FDRs most
successful program was Lend Lease. That is what got the factories
going again.
Building parks, logging roads and earthen dams may have kept young men
off the streets but it certainly did not do much to stimulate the
economy. Building ships and tanks for the brits is what got industry
going again.
Industrially backed wars are a great economic stimulant. You get to
build a lot of products and you don't have to really sell them. You
just blow them up and build more. Unfortunately we still have not paid
off all the debt from WWII. We just grew the economy enough to
obfuscate the debt. There is a limit to how much more we can grow. We
are now bumping up against the capacity of the planet to assimilate
more growth. (population, energy, water, food or just about any other
metric you can use)
In that regard "civilization" as we know it is a Ponzi.

Unemployment before WW2 under FDR went from 25% to 10%. That's pretty
amazing. WW2 certainly ended the depression finally and completely, but the
US depression had little to do with Hitler. He came into power because the
European powers after WW2 were obscenely harsh with Germany. That caused a
terrible depression and runaway inflation in Germany, which gave rise to the
extremist movement.

OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

On 13/06/2010 11:42 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 00:00:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Again, there's no expectation of "global" war. Who exactly are we
going to
fight that's capable of any kind of sustained major campaign??

Some might very well argue that we are already in the early stages of
a global war against religious extremists. Unfortunately I don't see
that situation getting better any time soon. How long did the
crusades last in the middle ages, and how/why did they end?

They don't have the capacity to do much damage, not even with a nuclear
device. We (and Obama is trying to do this) need to change how we look
at who we're fighting. There have always been religious extremist and
always will be.

The Crusades? Where Christians hacked people up with sharpened crosses?

http://www.realcourage.org/2010/01/b...g-case-update/

You should have married a muslim.

If above isn't good enough, try below:

http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=2139

Get educated you skank. It is good to keep nukes from islam/muslim.

--
Taxation, modern day slavery. The loss of economic freedom.

OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

On 13/06/2010 1:27 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:45:49 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

In the short term you are right but if you look at just the bad things
that happened in the 20th century. The depression resulted in WWII and
tens of millions of people died. I suppose that "worked out OK".
Unfortunately that will be nothing compared to a nuclear war. Who will
get it started? Most likely it will involve Israel and one of the
Islamic countries but, just like WWI, it could quickly escalate to the
world powers.

Perhaps worse might actually be an economic war where all of this
phony paper we call money collapses and people start fighting for
resources because they can't buy them anymore. In that war the Chinese
win because they can just sit back and watch. Their people will suffer
for a few years but they have the industrial capacity the US had in
1945 so they will be staged to take over the world.

The depression didn't result in WW2. Come on. The depression (at
least in
Germany) resulted from them being punished excessively for WWI.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling.... NOT


Without the depression, Hitler would not have been able to take power
and the war was certainly what ended the depression. FDRs most
successful program was Lend Lease. That is what got the factories
going again.
Building parks, logging roads and earthen dams may have kept young men
off the streets but it certainly did not do much to stimulate the
economy. Building ships and tanks for the brits is what got industry
going again.
Industrially backed wars are a great economic stimulant. You get to
build a lot of products and you don't have to really sell them. You
just blow them up and build more. Unfortunately we still have not paid
off all the debt from WWII. We just grew the economy enough to
obfuscate the debt. There is a limit to how much more we can grow. We
are now bumping up against the capacity of the planet to assimilate
more growth. (population, energy, water, food or just about any other
metric you can use)
In that regard "civilization" as we know it is a Ponzi.

Unemployment before WW2 under FDR went from 25% to 10%. That's pretty
amazing. WW2 certainly ended the depression finally and completely, but
the US depression had little to do with Hitler. He came into power
because the European powers after WW2 were obscenely harsh with Germany.
That caused a terrible depression and runaway inflation in Germany,
which gave rise to the extremist movement.

Oh I am sure Obama will try to lead the US to war. Say in 2011...or 2012...

--
Taxation, modern day slavery. The loss of economic freedom.

OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 13:49:09 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:



Oh I am sure Obama will try to lead the US to war. Say in 2011...or 2012...

you guys keep making predictions about him.

and you continue to be WRONG!!

what ever happened to him taking all the guns away? you guys seem to
have forgotten THAT little chestnut!

OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

On 13/06/2010 2:06 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 13:49:09 -0600,
wrote:



Oh I am sure Obama will try to lead the US to war. Say in 2011...or 2012...

you guys keep making predictions about him.

I predicted he would win president.
I predicted Obamanomics would not work and real unemployment will remain
high.
I predict he will bad mouth and antogonize China and the middle east to
get a war happening to get peoples mind off of the economic destruction
of the united States.

Only the last one hasn't come true. This is the longest
rescession/depression since 1929.

Obama being an egomaniac sociopath, will want to hold power no mater
what the cost. A year before his next election, he will get desperate
and do something real stupid for sure. He will use the old deflection
thing, start something big to get peoples minds off his presidential
incompetance.

and you continue to be WRONG!!

So far not.

what ever happened to him taking all the guns away? you guys seem to
have forgotten THAT little chestnut!

Lots of broken promises. Gitmo is another, we still have Gitmo because
the idiot president didn't think to what to do with some of the worlds
worst criminals if he shut Gitmo down. Usual Obama short sightedness.

So how is Obamanomics work'en for ya?
--
Taxation, modern day slavery. The loss of economic freedom.

OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 14:21:25 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 13/06/2010 2:06 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 13:49:09 -0600,
wrote:



Oh I am sure Obama will try to lead the US to war. Say in 2011...or 2012...

you guys keep making predictions about him.

I predicted he would win president.

meanginless.

I predicted Obamanomics would not work and real unemployment will remain
high.

it's dropping. so you're wrong. the GDP is growing. so you're doubly
wrong

I predict he will bad mouth and antogonize China and the middle east to
get a war happening to get peoples mind off of the economic destruction
of the united States.

meaningless gibberish.

Only the last one hasn't come true. This is the longest
rescession/depression since 1929.

yep. sure is. we can thank george bush for it.


Obama being an egomaniac sociopath

IOW he's black...yes, i know you hate him because of that

, will want to hold power no mater
what the cost

now let's see...bush tried to suspend habeas corpus. he arrested US
citizens without charge and without trial

but he's rich. and white. obama, however is black, so it's obvious to
your racist mind he wants to hold power...

.. A year before his next election, he will get desperate
and do something real stupid for sure. He will use the old deflection
thing, start something big to get peoples minds off his presidential
incompetance.

yeah. just like he tried the gun grab, right?

you guys screwed yourselves on that one. what's next? obama knows the
truth about UFO'S?


and you continue to be WRONG!!

So far not.

what ever happened to him taking all the guns away? you guys seem to
have forgotten THAT little chestnut!

Lots of broken promises. Gitmo is another

IOW he agreed with bush on this...and couldnt find countries to take
their own prisoners...

, we still have Gitmo because
the idiot president didn't think to what to do with some of the worlds
worst criminals if he shut Gitmo down. Usual Obama short sightedness.

nope. he called the world's bluff. you're just too stupid to see it.

So how is Obamanomics work'en for ya?

actually pretty good. durable goods orders are up. GDP is growing.
unemployment is dropping.

let me know if you need any more help to get out of your kluxer views,
OK?

OT entitlements (was lighthouses)
 

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:48:12 -0400, wrote:


Unemployment before WW2 under FDR went from 25% to 10%. That's pretty
amazing. WW2 certainly ended the depression finally and completely, but the
US depression had little to do with Hitler. He came into power because the
European powers after WW2 were obscenely harsh with Germany. That caused a
terrible depression and runaway inflation in Germany, which gave rise to the
extremist movement.


I don't know where you got that number for unemployment but the double
dip hit in 1938 At worst it was 23%, after the New Deal started and in
the double dip was back up to 18. We were well intro WWII before it
got to 10%.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._1890-2009.gif

Again. Hitler was a German response to the depression (he rose to
power in1933). Without millions of Germans out of work and hanging
around street corners looking for something to do and someone who
promised a solution, he would have just been an unknown crank.
The US putting abusive tariffs on European goods only made that
problem worse.
That was just one of FDRs flawed policies that we don't hear much
about.

unfortunately we hear ALOT today about repeating the 'do nothing'
policies that let the banks fail rather than increase debt. the
american right is a fundamentalist organization in many ways. they
think debt must be reduced even if it leads to 25% unemployment like
it did during the depression