In article ,
says...

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:22:20 -0500, "Peter (Yes, that one)"
wrote:


You have not defined "defensive medicine."
Whenever I hear that phrase used I wonder what it means.
"Unnecessary tests" is often used in conjunction with "defensive
medicine."

An example of defensive medicine is when the doctor gives someone an
MRI when there is really nothing in their diagnosis that justifies an
MRI but the doctor is afraid if anything ever did go south he would
have to defend that decision.
I had that happen to me.

"Really nothing in their diagnosis" would get an objection from your
doctor. And I'm sure he gave you his reasoning for the MRI.
What you have said doesn't make sense.
If you had an ailment for which an MRI did not make sense, an honest
doctor would not have it done.
If he ordered a Pap smear for you, you would have a case.
Not saying you are playing doctor here. Just standard politics.
Personally, I usually follow my doctor's advice, though not always.
Many doctors think there is a drug to cure everything.
But I have had a "useless" MRI. Didn't mean it was a test not indicated
by my ailment, and by eliminating internal causes we found out the real
cause.
By the way, though doctoring is part art, there are plenty of diagnostic
road maps used to determine what tests should be performed.
That is why "unnecessary tests" would be easy to identify - if they
existed.
Of course there are USPSTF guidelines for testing.
Remember the recent furor over that agency not recommending mammograms
for women under 40?
Too much cost and only so many lives saved. Right.
Remember "Nothing should come between doctor and patient?"
Remember "Death panels?"
A good doctor is not stingy with testing.
If I want "take an aspirin, and get some sleep" advice, I need not see a
doctor for that.

Peter

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2010 5:22 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:29:11 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Which has little to do with the argument that tort reform is going to
save
the healthcare system.

Tort reform would save the whole economic system. The lawyers tax is a
drag on the whole economy, producing absolutely nothing.



?? Come on. More nonsense. Most lawyers are honest and hardworking.
Lawyers
founded this country. We have nothing to be ashamed of.

The only explaination I have is lawyers back then were more honest and
under a lot more scruteny on the issue of governance. Probably because
many of their peers were NOT lawyers and they had to get acceptance from
the people.

"We the people..." founded the USA. Otherwise the residents would have
hung the idiots as traitors to the crown, and they were traitors to the
British. But victors write the history books.

BTW, I think they did a good job. Just an observation that they were
British subjects before they were Americans.

--
Time to ask ask, is our government serving us or are we serving the
government?

To be a lawyer in those days, you did not have to indoctrinated by a law
school. Just read the books and take the bar exam.

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:06:09 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:42:07 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


Odd, how the government is basically dumping NASA saying private
industry
can do it better and cheaper. But government can do healthcare better
and
cheaper. Just seems odd.

we have free market healthcare NOW.

it doesn't work. how much evidence do you need? it's kind of like
asking 'who's buried in grant's tomb'?




We still do not have a free market healtcare. Have not had one as long as
I
am aware of healthcare. Has always been very highly government
controlled.
Free market, insurance companies could sell across state lines, etc.

yeah. and there's never been 'true communism'. and there's never been
'true christianity'

face it. the free market failed in healthcare. it's a failure. state
controlled healthcare provides better care at lower cost. if your way
worked, the US healthcare market would be the best in the world

it's not. it's a failure. the market has failed. that's what the data
and the evidence shows.

it's time to move on.



Basically state controlled health care. Via control of insurance companies
and where they can sell.
And you bring up Christianity. Bad place to bring it up. How about the
Catholic Church (there are others with hospitals also, very good hospitals)?

And part of a Sam Miller statement.

"Do you know - the Catholic Church educates 2.6 million students everyday at
the cost to that Church of 10 billion dollars, and a savings on the other
hand to the American taxpayer of 18 billion dollars. The graduates go on to
graduate studies at the rate of 92%

The Church has 230 colleges and universities in the U.S. with an
enrollment of 700,000 students.

The Catholic Church has a non-profit hospital system of 637 hospitals, which
account for hospital treatment of 1 out of every 5 people - not just
Catholics - in the United States today

"

How many atheists have schools and hospitals? You do not have to be
Catholic to go to these schools and hospitals. When my father was near
death he was in a Seventh Day Adventist run hospital. He had Blue Cross as
part of his retirement from UC Berkeley. But the care was outstanding!

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:09:27 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:24:26 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:


but no one ever said the right let facts stand in their way


Medicare is a financial disaster. Very expensive for what we really get.

and our current free market healthcare?

the most expensive in the world.

does not cover everyone

does not cover pre existing conditions

healthcare premiums go through the roof

the free market has failed.

Most everything is covered, via Medicare or the supplemental. Except for
the drug donut hole. No copay etc. Seniors go to the doctor and the
hospital for simple checkups for entertainment these days. Especially
prevalent in Florida from what I understand.

and the free market system is on the verge of collapse



Why should an insurance company cover a pre-existing condition if the person
did not have insurance previously?

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:17:39 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
Insanity is how you can spend less and get better services with a
presidential BS line like Obama has for you.

except, of course, the deficit is smaller this year than projected AND
obama's plans have been demonstrated to be at LEAST deficiit neutral
and may evenb REDUCE the deficit.



The deficit is less than projected. The projected amount was about $1.75
TRILLION. The deficit is lower. Still a record by a long ways. About
$1.35 TRILLION.


yeah. it's a tragedy what wall street has done to main street


And it is a bigger tragedy what Pennsylvania Ave is doing to the future
generations.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:10:02 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:06:09 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:
W.

it doesn't work. how much evidence do you need? it's kind of like
asking 'who's buried in grant's tomb'?




yeah. and there's never been 'true communism'. and there's never been
'true christianity'

face it. the free market failed in healthcare. it's a failure. state
controlled healthcare provides better care at lower cost. if your way
worked, the US healthcare market would be the best in the world

it's not. it's a failure. the market has failed. that's what the data
and the evidence shows.

it's time to move on.



Basically state controlled health care. Via control of insurance companies
and where they can sell.

bull****. if this is 'state controlled' healthcare...then why is TRUE
'socialized medicine'....more efficient than ours?

again and again you dodge the issue. again and again you ignore the
evidence. and you do so because your wall street god is dead.

And you bring up Christianity. Bad place to bring it up. How about the
Catholic Church (there are others with hospitals also, very good hospitals)?

no one gives a **** about the child raping catholic church and its
pimp bishops.


And part of a Sam Miller statement.

"Do you know - the Catholic Church educates 2.6 million students

yeah. a nice little stable of boys to play with

everyday at
the cost to that Church of 10 billion dollars, and a savings on the other
hand to the American taxpayer of 18 billion dollars

to date theyv'e paid out 2 billion in insurance claims.

"

How many atheists have schools and hospitals?

actually, all of them. we support them with our taxes. we just dont
rape the chlidren we care for

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:11:33 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:09:27 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


does not cover pre existing conditions

healthcare premiums go through the roof

the free market has failed.

Most everything is covered, via Medicare or the supplemental. Except for
the drug donut hole. No copay etc. Seniors go to the doctor and the
hospital for simple checkups for entertainment these days. Especially
prevalent in Florida from what I understand.

and the free market system is on the verge of collapse



Why should an insurance company cover a pre-existing condition if the person
did not have insurance previously?

not very bright here, are you? kinda stupid actually.

what happens when you lose your job and have to get another one? or
you have to self insure?

christ, even for a right wing pimp you're stupid. honest to christ.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:12:31 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:17:39 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:



yeah. it's a tragedy what wall street has done to main street


And it is a bigger tragedy what Pennsylvania Ave is doing to the future
generations.


you mean restoring jobs?

preventing 25% unemployment?

yeah, given your hatred of the middle class, i'm sure you're weeping
that the rich aren't allowed to eat the children of the poor

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:10:02 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:06:09 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:
W.

it doesn't work. how much evidence do you need? it's kind of like
asking 'who's buried in grant's tomb'?




yeah. and there's never been 'true communism'. and there's never been
'true christianity'

face it. the free market failed in healthcare. it's a failure. state
controlled healthcare provides better care at lower cost. if your way
worked, the US healthcare market would be the best in the world

it's not. it's a failure. the market has failed. that's what the data
and the evidence shows.

it's time to move on.



Basically state controlled health care. Via control of insurance
companies
and where they can sell.

bull****. if this is 'state controlled' healthcare...then why is TRUE
'socialized medicine'....more efficient than ours?

again and again you dodge the issue. again and again you ignore the
evidence. and you do so because your wall street god is dead.

And you bring up Christianity. Bad place to bring it up. How about the
Catholic Church (there are others with hospitals also, very good
hospitals)?

no one gives a **** about the child raping catholic church and its
pimp bishops.


And part of a Sam Miller statement.

"Do you know - the Catholic Church educates 2.6 million students

yeah. a nice little stable of boys to play with

everyday at
the cost to that Church of 10 billion dollars, and a savings on the other
hand to the American taxpayer of 18 billion dollars

to date theyv'e paid out 2 billion in insurance claims.

"

How many atheists have schools and hospitals?

actually, all of them. we support them with our taxes. we just dont
rape the chlidren we care for


What he meant to say was that he believes he's under mind control from
Obama.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"mmc" wrote in message
g.com...

Odd, how the government is basically dumping NASA saying private industry
can do it better and cheaper. But government can do healthcare better
and cheaper. Just seems odd.
All NASA does these days is administer contracts. The current shuttle
design has been in service for damn near 30 years with a planned lifespan
something like 20 years and a goal of a low cost delivery system to near
earth orbit. It has proven to be the most expensive delivery system
available and is more sensitive than a teenage girl. And more dangerous.
NASA has had 30 years to come up with a replacement and has fallen on it's
collective ass.
A good friend and former Air Force Commander once told me that "the
current NASA generation couldn't put a man on the moon to save thier lives
and we're spending $4 billion a year (mid 90s, 8 launches @ $500 million
per) to light fires in an oxygen rich environment and watch rats f*ck".
Check out a crew list. Aside from the pilots, you'll see a gaggle of
people who have no friggin clue as to what they're supposed to be doing up
there, that's why they go thru so much training. If you really wanted to
get the job done, NASA would send Navy mud divers instead of engineers and
school teachers. Divers already know how to work in a weightless
environment, they know life support systems and how to work with tools
NASA, like FEMA have become stagnent social programs that cannot perform
thier missions. Flush them and start over.

FEMA does just fine when properly administered.

NASA does just fine for somethings, but they've lost a lot of their edge.

--
Nom=de=Plume