In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:57:49 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace
all the jobs that we have sent offshore.


Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly agree
with the rest of the statement.


I am not sure why you disagree with "all" unless you mean "all plus
the new kids entering the market".
Our economy has been based on the middle class having good jobs. We
really have to start making things here again.
Maybe we should have a telethon to collect money to rebuild the US
infrastructure after we are done in Haiti..



If you use a term such as "all" or "every" it's almost always wrong. Some
jobs won't be replaced.

I agree a lot of auto workers are not going to be making cars but they
could be making other things. I believe wind energy is a boondoggle
but if people are willing to do it, it is not a bad place for factory
workers to work. There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

Old instructor told me long ago, don't bother with the bee, go for the
stinger...

Scotty, we need to go for the stinger.

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:57:49 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace
all the jobs that we have sent offshore.


Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly
agree
with the rest of the statement.


I am not sure why you disagree with "all" unless you mean "all plus
the new kids entering the market".
Our economy has been based on the middle class having good jobs. We
really have to start making things here again.
Maybe we should have a telethon to collect money to rebuild the US
infrastructure after we are done in Haiti..



If you use a term such as "all" or "every" it's almost always wrong.
Some
jobs won't be replaced.

I agree a lot of auto workers are not going to be making cars but they
could be making other things. I believe wind energy is a boondoggle
but if people are willing to do it, it is not a bad place for factory
workers to work. There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

Old instructor told me long ago, don't bother with the bee, go for the
stinger...

Scotty, we need to go for the stinger.


The roads and bridges are dandy, until they collapse. Infrastructure is one
of the things we really need to work on in this country.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

Old instructor told me long ago, don't bother with the bee, go for the
stinger...

Scotty, we need to go for the stinger.


The roads and bridges are dandy, until they collapse. Infrastructure is
one of the things we really need to work on in this country.


The reason they haven't been is .... no money. An otherwise healthy
business climate must
exist generating tax revenues is needed to pay for fixing the roads a
bridges. A healthy
business climate is something we don't have.

On 25/01/2010 4:06 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...

"I am wrote in message
...

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

Old instructor told me long ago, don't bother with the bee, go for the
stinger...

Scotty, we need to go for the stinger.


The roads and bridges are dandy, until they collapse. Infrastructure is
one of the things we really need to work on in this country.


The reason they haven't been is .... no money. An otherwise healthy
business climate must
exist generating tax revenues is needed to pay for fixing the roads a
bridges. A healthy
business climate is something we don't have.

Agreed. From a pure divident point of view, the risk/reward isn't there
fo 9/10 companies. Serious problem going forward.

If government could generate wealth, we would all be working for
government. But someone has to do the work.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.


I don't think Tosk quite gets that.

All environmentalists are against it or just a few? All is a tricky word.
You might want to try and avoid using it. In this case "the" seems to be the
poor substitute.

--
Nom=de=Plume

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.

I still think putting all that money into roads that folks will drive
around on for free isn't as good as putting the money into factories t
make hard goods that can be sold to the public...

Scotty

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 01:52:23 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.

I still think putting all that money into roads that folks will drive
around on for free isn't as good as putting the money into factories t
make hard goods that can be sold to the public...

Scotty


Without decent roads, how will they get those goods to market?
Roads aren't "free" anyway. They get funded through gas taxes.
Unfortunately that fund gets raided for non-road things.

Well, I am certainly not advocating stopping maintenance on current
roads and such, but that alone is not going to save our economy or
manufacturing base. I don't think there are too many here who really
trust that the union highway workers are "productive" with our money. We
need to start making products again, period...

Scotty

I am Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 01:52:23 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.
The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.
When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.
I still think putting all that money into roads that folks will drive
around on for free isn't as good as putting the money into factories t
make hard goods that can be sold to the public...

Scotty

Without decent roads, how will they get those goods to market?
Roads aren't "free" anyway. They get funded through gas taxes.
Unfortunately that fund gets raided for non-road things.

Well, I am certainly not advocating stopping maintenance on current
roads and such, but that alone is not going to save our economy or
manufacturing base. I don't think there are too many here who really
trust that the union highway workers are "productive" with our money. We
need to start making products again, period...

Scotty


Since you are not qualified to make products, you ought to pick up some
skills to help you get that day laborer job...

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:59:43 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

I still think putting all that money into roads that folks will drive
around on for free isn't as good as putting the money into factories t
make hard goods that can be sold to the public...

Scotty


Without decent roads, how will they get those goods to market?
Roads aren't "free" anyway. They get funded through gas taxes.
Unfortunately that fund gets raided for non-road things.

Well, I am certainly not advocating stopping maintenance on current
roads and such, but that alone is not going to save our economy or
manufacturing base. I don't think there are too many here who really
trust that the union highway workers are "productive" with our money. We
need to start making products again, period...

Our road crews are usually non-union contractors. We only wish they
would hire locally instead of outsourcing from "Blue" counties. The
stimulus money seems to be targeted that way.

No doubt the stimulus was more to reward blue areas and punish red
ones..

Scotty

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.


I just don't get it. Government spending on infrastructure may create some
jobs in
certain industries, but it needs to be paid for by tax revenues from
somewhere.
Tax revenues come mostly from income taxes on employed people..... 45
percent, I think.
Point is, there has to be more private industry jobs hiring people who pay
taxes than just
those working on infrastructure improvements to pay for it.

Otherwise, the US just continues to borrow money to create a few jobs.

Eisboch