Harry wrote:
Harry wrote:
Canuck57 wrote:
On 25/01/2010 4:02 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...


What's wrong with wind turbines? They seem to work... of course, it'll
require some investment...


One problem is that they are notoriously over-rated in terms of
their output
capacity.
Another big problem is environmentalists.
Another big oops is that the optimum areas that large scale wind
turbine
generating plants would
be located are typically remote with no existing way to get the
power to the
grid.
The cost of getting the power to the grid can be enormous and full of
additional environmental
impacts and/or objections.

Eisboch

Actually, i would say serious technical problems. No wind, night
time, people want to charge their cars does not work. Something to
do with the laws of physics that our fantasy leaders can't over come.

Our fantasy leaders are a bunch of Don Quixotes.


Sorry, "flajims," but the real Harry uses a mac and doesn't post as a
Harry using "Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)"


--
Harry has access to a PC and is perfectly capable of using it to make a
convincing spoof, as we have already seen. In fact we have seen screen
shots of his desktop which included spoofing software. One might ask
oneself if someone has spoofing software on his desk top, would he be
likely to use it?
Ask your self these questions. Is this post a spoof? Am I responding to
a spoof? Why am I reading posts that are likely to be spoofs?

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 25/01/2010 4:02 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...


What's wrong with wind turbines? They seem to work... of course, it'll
require some investment...


One problem is that they are notoriously over-rated in terms of their
output
capacity.
Another big problem is environmentalists.
Another big oops is that the optimum areas that large scale wind turbine
generating plants would
be located are typically remote with no existing way to get the power to
the
grid.
The cost of getting the power to the grid can be enormous and full of
additional environmental
impacts and/or objections.

Eisboch

Actually, i would say serious technical problems. No wind, night time,
people want to charge their cars does not work. Something to do with the
laws of physics that our fantasy leaders can't over come.



You don't know much about the technology, apparently. There are always
technical problems with a newish technology.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2010 11:11 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:57:49 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace
all the jobs that we have sent offshore.


Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly
agree
with the rest of the statement.


I am not sure why you disagree with "all" unless you mean "all plus
the new kids entering the market".
Our economy has been based on the middle class having good jobs. We
really have to start making things here again.
Maybe we should have a telethon to collect money to rebuild the US
infrastructure after we are done in Haiti..



If you use a term such as "all" or "every" it's almost always wrong.
Some
jobs won't be replaced.

I agree a lot of auto workers are not going to be making cars but they
could be making other things. I believe wind energy is a boondoggle
but if people are willing to do it, it is not a bad place for factory
workers to work. There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.


What's wrong with wind turbines? They seem to work... of course, it'll
require some investment...

Then you invest. Don't ask government too, no need to. If you believe in
it, and it makes money instead of being next years garbage, you will
profit!

Governments waste... last thing we need is more of it. Current policy is
economic suicide. Pure and simple.


Not pure and simple, except if you're talking about yourself. Again, you no
nothing about the technology or industry or the economics of it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2010 4:57 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace
all the jobs that we have sent offshore.


Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly
agree
with the rest of the statement.


I am not sure why you disagree with "all" unless you mean "all plus
the new kids entering the market".
Our economy has been based on the middle class having good jobs. We
really have to start making things here again.
Maybe we should have a telethon to collect money to rebuild the US
infrastructure after we are done in Haiti..

If you use a term such as "all" or "every" it's almost always wrong. Some
jobs won't be replaced.

We can't all work for the government. Nothing would get done.


We can't all consider you to be an idiot either.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

"I am Tosk" wrote in message

This is just pie in the sky, there is no cause and effect. The middle
class is mostly non-union and self employed.


I don't believe it's the case that most middle class people are
self-employed.


Word games.
It is accurate to state that the majority of middle class working people
are either non-union, work for a non-union company *or* are
self-employed.

In fact, I think that pretty much covers *all* working people.

Eisboch



He's the one playing the games. Read over what he said. "The middle class is
mostly non-union and self employed." Given his "brilliance" ....

--
Nom=de=Plume

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

"I am Tosk" wrote in message

This is just pie in the sky, there is no cause and effect. The middle
class is mostly non-union and self employed.


I don't believe it's the case that most middle class people are
self-employed.


Word games.
It is accurate to state that the majority of middle class working people
are
either non-union, work for a non-union company *or* are self-employed.

In fact, I think that pretty much covers *all* working people.

Eisboch

Yes, that is what I meant to say...

Scotty


So, I guess I wasn't playing word games. Thanks for the clarification of
your intention.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2010 11:18 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2010 6:35 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2010 3:57 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500,
wrote:

Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems
just
got
worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt
paid
off.


What happens if the USA just says, "No"?

Just curious.

Short answer ...
The dollar would be devalued and oil would cost more, among other
things.

Good answer, hyper inflation due to currency devaluation. And I
really
think that is the liberal game plan. Has been for over 2 years as
nothing
else explains the mad-hatter direction of government other than pure
insanity, which may be true all the same. Here goes my view on how
government is thinking on this depression.

Government does not sees the problem as people not having money, they
see
homes in a recession pricing. It makes it attractive for a family to
toss
the keys to the banks and walk. Growth is needed to hide losses and
screw
ups.

Part of the plan is getting people to put all the money in seemingly
safe
places, T-bills, money market, cash places. At ultra low interest
rates.

Now lets say let the dollar fall by say 75% in a rapid period of time,
too
fast to move out of cash and sell t-bills etc. Just stop honoring
debt,
just like Iceland just did. Who knows, they could be the pilot group.

So if one woke up and oil went from $80 barrel to $320 a barrel, the
government just devlaued it's $12 trillion dollar debt by 75%, as
people
get wage increases in the inflation cycle, and money is stuck in low
interest, the currency debt and fiscal debt becomes depreciated on the
backs of people with money.

It is why I am in pure cash (can buy gold/stock/real-esate etc) on a
click. But will not touch a morgage mutual, t-bill or cd/gic with a
10
foot poll. I view lending right now as toxic. Even if it is lending
to
government. The only way I would lend to government is with an
infation
clause and 5% premium without taxation. Otherwie a brick of gold
looks
pretty good.

Lets take a scenario, person A buys $1000 of oil, say 12.5 barrels of
it.
Person B buys a T-bill at a meaningless interest rate. Then the
dollar
plumets as debt isn't honored against the currency itself.

Person A still has 12.5 barels of oil worth $4000. Person B has
$1000.10
that now can only purchase 1/4 of what it did not too long ago. Value
currency depreciation.

More people will get jobs if it goes far enough as then US goods
become
cheap like Chinese ones. Hyper inflation as coffee goes from $10 a
tine
to $40, but government doesn't give a damn about retired and people,
they
are just to milk for statism. Wages will not keep up.

How this addresses housing is simple. If a home is $200K to build
today,
but is selling for $180K, and has a $200K morgage, after inflation it
changes to perhaps $500K to build and $400k to buy. No idiot will oss
the
keys for that sweet deal.

To understand government policy, it becomes easy once you realize they
are
the biggest meanist delinquent dysfunctional debtors going. A debt
monger
mindset and plent of self denial.

Time will tell, but in 2010 some time we should see a big move down in
USD
value. Big move actually. Probably in the later hald as the mini
recovery
bubble pops.



If you think hyperinflation is coming, claiming that you've got all
cash
isn't exactly where you want to be. You should be complete in a
precious
metals, since you may not be able to "click" and get it done, as the
SEC
would shut down the exchange. Also, you'll need to have the gold or
whatever
in your possession to be safe.

Oh, and you're not too bright... if that wasn't obvious.

To you, not obvious. My generalization about cash is I am not going to
CD/GIC or loan it as a cash instrument, not even a money market and
certainly not bonds or some silly morgage mutual. I don't "invest in
cash" isn't the same as wanting some short term liquidity for
opportunities and portfolio rebalancing.

I have my reasons including if Obama drives the Dow to 8000 or lower it
might be a minor repeat of last year....and like last year have
opportunistic cash for the average in on the dip, its Obama's move. LOL.
Or perhaps buy some gold.

Just that China credit tightening and Japan banking with Obama chest
pounding sounds like trouble.

I don't think the US SEC can shut down a Canadian exchange. Have
another
drink.


I definitely think you should put all your money in gold. Also, buy some
land in a remote place and live there.


The thought has occured to me. Would certainly guarantee my fiscal
futures.


Good idea, then you can head down to the local farmer's market and barter
for your corn.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2010 6:35 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2010 3:57 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500,
wrote:

Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just
got
worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid
off.


What happens if the USA just says, "No"?

Just curious.

Short answer ...
The dollar would be devalued and oil would cost more, among other
things.

Good answer, hyper inflation due to currency devaluation. And I really
think that is the liberal game plan. Has been for over 2 years as
nothing
else explains the mad-hatter direction of government other than pure
insanity, which may be true all the same. Here goes my view on how
government is thinking on this depression.

Government does not sees the problem as people not having money, they
see
homes in a recession pricing. It makes it attractive for a family to
toss
the keys to the banks and walk. Growth is needed to hide losses and
screw
ups.

Part of the plan is getting people to put all the money in seemingly
safe
places, T-bills, money market, cash places. At ultra low interest
rates.

Now lets say let the dollar fall by say 75% in a rapid period of time,
too
fast to move out of cash and sell t-bills etc. Just stop honoring debt,
just like Iceland just did. Who knows, they could be the pilot group.

So if one woke up and oil went from $80 barrel to $320 a barrel, the
government just devlaued it's $12 trillion dollar debt by 75%, as people
get wage increases in the inflation cycle, and money is stuck in low
interest, the currency debt and fiscal debt becomes depreciated on the
backs of people with money.

It is why I am in pure cash (can buy gold/stock/real-esate etc) on a
click. But will not touch a morgage mutual, t-bill or cd/gic with a 10
foot poll. I view lending right now as toxic. Even if it is lending to
government. The only way I would lend to government is with an infation
clause and 5% premium without taxation. Otherwie a brick of gold looks
pretty good.

Lets take a scenario, person A buys $1000 of oil, say 12.5 barrels of
it.
Person B buys a T-bill at a meaningless interest rate. Then the dollar
plumets as debt isn't honored against the currency itself.

Person A still has 12.5 barels of oil worth $4000. Person B has
$1000.10
that now can only purchase 1/4 of what it did not too long ago. Value
currency depreciation.

More people will get jobs if it goes far enough as then US goods become
cheap like Chinese ones. Hyper inflation as coffee goes from $10 a tine
to $40, but government doesn't give a damn about retired and people,
they
are just to milk for statism. Wages will not keep up.

How this addresses housing is simple. If a home is $200K to build
today,
but is selling for $180K, and has a $200K morgage, after inflation it
changes to perhaps $500K to build and $400k to buy. No idiot will oss
the
keys for that sweet deal.

To understand government policy, it becomes easy once you realize they
are
the biggest meanist delinquent dysfunctional debtors going. A debt
monger
mindset and plent of self denial.

Time will tell, but in 2010 some time we should see a big move down in
USD
value. Big move actually. Probably in the later hald as the mini
recovery
bubble pops.



If you think hyperinflation is coming, claiming that you've got all cash
isn't exactly where you want to be. You should be complete in a precious
metals, since you may not be able to "click" and get it done, as the SEC
would shut down the exchange. Also, you'll need to have the gold or
whatever
in your possession to be safe.

Oh, and you're not too bright... if that wasn't obvious.

No, I prefer stuff like coal, oil, natural gas and things we will need in
a prolonged depression to live. Gold is at a value peek, might go higher.
But not knowing gold markets I tend to stay away. People making real
money at gold bought in 3 to 5 years ago.

I don't even own any Walmart, even though I love the company as I see
another round of household spending cuts coming. Middle class is starving
for cash they don't have. This will reduce discretionay spending even
further. But at the right time, after the big collapse, might find myslef
buying shares Walmart.


You're going to keep coal, oil, and NG in your back yard... eww...

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2010 11:20 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2010 5:20 PM, thunder wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, Eisboch wrote:


What happens if the USA just says, "No"?

Just curious.

It would be one hell of a crash, and 5-10 very rough years, but then...
We'd have to get our own house in order, as no other country would want
to finance our overspending ways. Personally, I don't think it would
be
all bad, but there are a lot easier ways to get our house in order. It
would be playing with fire, and you never know how burned we would get.

Iceland, Brazil, Zimbabwe, Venzuela, Argentina, Germany pre WW II all
have
some history on this. Generally not good for the standard of living
which
drops signifigantly. How far it drops depends a lot on the size of the
default. $2 trillion ot the Chinese, you will notice it big time.
Especially if the Saudis want Euros for USDs on the value drop --
could happen very fast. Get the Japanese banks to drop in the middle
being a major holder of US debt... all hell could break loose when the
germany banks fall.

Just waiting for the music to stop.


Please keep waiting (can you do this quietly?) Get back to us when the
sky
starts falling.

You sound like Mike Hnter over in GM group area, LOL.

He is just a loser GM zealot. Been wrong so many times he is hopeless.


I knew you couldn't wait quietly.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:01:23 -0800, Jack wrote:

On Jan 25, 6:53Â*pm, thunder wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:30:51 -0800, Jack wrote:
On Jan 25, 4:09Â*pm, thunder wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:59:56 -0500, Harry wrote:
thunder wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:40:57 -0800, nom=de=plume wrote:

And, it's never an either/or situation. There are typically
union and non-union shops. So, your statement about if they
don't like the wage, they can go somewhere else doesn't
necessarily apply. There might be other non-union shops, but
there might not be.

Let's not forget the 22 "Right to work" states.

That's the "22 right-to-work-for-less" states.

Yup, the map would seem to correspond to the lower wage states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Right_to_work.svg

The right to work states have the lowest cost of living.

Meanwhile, those union states have the highest unemployment, closed
down factories, biggest social problem, highest cost of living, etc.

South Carolina has the new Boeing plant coming here.

"CHICAGO—Boeing Co. said it would build a second final assembly line
for its troubled 787 Dreamliner jet in South Carolina, a move that
spurns the powerful aircraft machinists' union that had been
negotiating with Boeing to locate the work at the current factory
near Seattle."

"It's the first time since 2006 that Boeing will assemble a
commercial airplane outside of the Puget Sound area and provides the
company with an assembly line beyond the reach of the labor union
that has caused production headaches off and on for decades in
Seattle."

How are those unions working out for ya?

Fine, you are the one complaining about unions. Â*Oh, and the Boeing
story seems to make a lie out of what you posted up-thread.

"In a union environment, the job and it's wages are controlled by the
union
through coercion. Â*As we've seen, the market's ability to sustain the
wage seemingly has no influence on the demands of the unions. The
company has no choice, as it can not terminate striking workers, and
will go under if it does not comply with the union's demands. Â*It is
essentially held hostage until bled dry."

It would seem the company has a choice, doesn't it?

They had no choice but to vacate their home plant, in their home state,
and spend millions building another plant all the way across the country
just to get away from a union that "has caused production headaches off
and on for decades in Seattle." That's a legacy to be proud of for the
union.

Oh please, the nearly $1 billion in "incentives" South Carolina provided
had nothing to do with it? Some would call that bribery.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/191434.asp

Boeing will find that, unlike their west coast union employees, South
Carolina workers aren't whiny-ass bitches.

Maybe, but the Seattle workforce has a proven capability. South Carolina
still has to prove that capability. Good luck. I mean that, but it
remains to be seen if this was a smart move by Boeing.