wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.


I don't think Tosk quite gets that.

All environmentalists are against it or just a few? All is a tricky word.
You might want to try and avoid using it. In this case "the" seems to be the
poor substitute.

--
Nom=de=Plume

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.

I still think putting all that money into roads that folks will drive
around on for free isn't as good as putting the money into factories t
make hard goods that can be sold to the public...

Scotty

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 01:52:23 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.

I still think putting all that money into roads that folks will drive
around on for free isn't as good as putting the money into factories t
make hard goods that can be sold to the public...

Scotty


Without decent roads, how will they get those goods to market?
Roads aren't "free" anyway. They get funded through gas taxes.
Unfortunately that fund gets raided for non-road things.

Well, I am certainly not advocating stopping maintenance on current
roads and such, but that alone is not going to save our economy or
manufacturing base. I don't think there are too many here who really
trust that the union highway workers are "productive" with our money. We
need to start making products again, period...

Scotty

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.


I just don't get it. Government spending on infrastructure may create some
jobs in
certain industries, but it needs to be paid for by tax revenues from
somewhere.
Tax revenues come mostly from income taxes on employed people..... 45
percent, I think.
Point is, there has to be more private industry jobs hiring people who pay
taxes than just
those working on infrastructure improvements to pay for it.

Otherwise, the US just continues to borrow money to create a few jobs.

Eisboch

In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.


I just don't get it. Government spending on infrastructure may create some
jobs in
certain industries, but it needs to be paid for by tax revenues from
somewhere.
Tax revenues come mostly from income taxes on employed people..... 45
percent, I think.
Point is, there has to be more private industry jobs hiring people who pay
taxes than just
those working on infrastructure improvements to pay for it.

Otherwise, the US just continues to borrow money to create a few jobs.

Eisboch

Exactly... We have to stop making roads and hiring Government auditors
to keep track of them.

Scotty

On 25/01/2010 3:56 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.

The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in
products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be
in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding
back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to
address the things that are killing the manufacturing base.

When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy
equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators.
There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer
systems and water distribution that need work.
We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme
caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen.


I just don't get it. Government spending on infrastructure may create some
jobs in
certain industries, but it needs to be paid for by tax revenues from
somewhere.
Tax revenues come mostly from income taxes on employed people..... 45
percent, I think.
Point is, there has to be more private industry jobs hiring people who pay
taxes than just
those working on infrastructure improvements to pay for it.

Otherwise, the US just continues to borrow money to create a few jobs.

Eisboch

None of this is being paid for, more debt, the same kind of debt that
caused this depression. Congress needs to take Obama's credit card
away, oh wait, congress is liberal-democrat....good luck.

It isn't really that government doesn't have the money for the right
things. It is about priorities and waste.

Continuing to borrow money I suspect is no longer occuring. On he debt
markets I see very little going into government paper to fund this debt.
Democrats and banks are just "creatin" it, seriously.

No one in their right mind is lending Obama #2 trillion and more to come
at a stupid silly rate of 0.01% interest. This is hyperinflationary
money creation going on. Hell, just print it. Which makes me wonder
when the USD collapses, not if.

They only call it debt as government has to account for itself as a loan
to itself in a weird sort of way.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:57:49 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace
all the jobs that we have sent offshore.


Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly
agree
with the rest of the statement.


I am not sure why you disagree with "all" unless you mean "all plus
the new kids entering the market".
Our economy has been based on the middle class having good jobs. We
really have to start making things here again.
Maybe we should have a telethon to collect money to rebuild the US
infrastructure after we are done in Haiti..



If you use a term such as "all" or "every" it's almost always wrong. Some
jobs won't be replaced.

I agree a lot of auto workers are not going to be making cars but they
could be making other things. I believe wind energy is a boondoggle
but if people are willing to do it, it is not a bad place for factory
workers to work. There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.


What's wrong with wind turbines? They seem to work... of course, it'll
require some investment...

--
Nom=de=Plume

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...


What's wrong with wind turbines? They seem to work... of course, it'll
require some investment...


One problem is that they are notoriously over-rated in terms of their output
capacity.
Another big problem is environmentalists.
Another big oops is that the optimum areas that large scale wind turbine
generating plants would
be located are typically remote with no existing way to get the power to the
grid.
The cost of getting the power to the grid can be enormous and full of
additional environmental
impacts and/or objections.

Eisboch

On 25/01/2010 4:02 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...


What's wrong with wind turbines? They seem to work... of course, it'll
require some investment...


One problem is that they are notoriously over-rated in terms of their output
capacity.
Another big problem is environmentalists.
Another big oops is that the optimum areas that large scale wind turbine
generating plants would
be located are typically remote with no existing way to get the power to the
grid.
The cost of getting the power to the grid can be enormous and full of
additional environmental
impacts and/or objections.

Eisboch

Actually, i would say serious technical problems. No wind, night time,
people want to charge their cars does not work. Something to do with
the laws of physics that our fantasy leaders can't over come.

On 24/01/2010 11:11 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:57:49 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace
all the jobs that we have sent offshore.


Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly
agree
with the rest of the statement.


I am not sure why you disagree with "all" unless you mean "all plus
the new kids entering the market".
Our economy has been based on the middle class having good jobs. We
really have to start making things here again.
Maybe we should have a telethon to collect money to rebuild the US
infrastructure after we are done in Haiti..



If you use a term such as "all" or "every" it's almost always wrong. Some
jobs won't be replaced.

I agree a lot of auto workers are not going to be making cars but they
could be making other things. I believe wind energy is a boondoggle
but if people are willing to do it, it is not a bad place for factory
workers to work. There are plenty of things we need in the
infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it.


What's wrong with wind turbines? They seem to work... of course, it'll
require some investment...

Then you invest. Don't ask government too, no need to. If you believe
in it, and it makes money instead of being next years garbage, you will
profit!

Governments waste... last thing we need is more of it. Current policy
is economic suicide. Pure and simple.