On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 15:22:30 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Nov 6, 6:01*pm, "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!"
wrote:
On Nov 6, 5:56*pm, jps wrote:



On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 14:10:19 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch

wrote:
Small businesses knowing that Obama intends to punish them for having
employees by way of his 8% fee unless they pay for health care should
take measures right now.

1. *Plan for no growth or even negative growth.
2. *Lay of workers now while you can. *Soon, Obama will make it
difficult to do so.
3. *Instead of growth, consider licensing your stuff to a foreign
company. *This way you do not have to pay employees or pay Obama’s 8%
tax.
4. *If you really want to increase revenues, pay a foreign company to
do what you would do in the USA and then buy it from them.
5. *Do not invest in anything in the USA. *Instead, buy stocks in
foreign companies.
6. *Do not feel bad about living this way, the Dems are trying to
punish you for being an employer so screw em and their voters.

In my case, I have stopped manufacturing and have simply licensed our
tech to a foreign company and they pay royalties. *Sure beats paying
payroll taxes and the hassle of employees and worrying about Obama’s
punishing me for being an employer. *I need a new thing developed but
instead of hiring someone to do it, I found I could pay a company in
India to develop it and then simply give me the drawings. *I wonder
how high unemployment will have to get under Obamanomics before it is
cheaper to pay people here than paying people in India?

You're using the threat of health care to justify having moved your
business offshore?

I can't imagine not covering my employees with health insurance. *It's
damned expensive and a pain in the ass but among the ways that I can
show them that we care about them and their family's welfare.

I have the ability to send my programming offshore. *I'd risk being
insolvent before caving to cheaper labor. *That's un-American to me.

Kind of like someone who would make up stories about Japanese/German
screwdrivers instead of buying good old "Merkin ones..

http://www.armstrongtools.com/ECommerce/Category.aspx

There are many other manufacturers too, but of course, they aren't
politically correct I guess.. Pffffttt

Dude, nobody believes anything you say. Well, maybe Donnie and Harry
do, but they are in your club anyway...

I have no problem Offering reasonable health insurance (big deductable
and large co-pay) but Obama wants me to offer a gold plated health
plan I cannot afford and then threatens to charge me 8% of revenue if
I do not. Simple solution is to get rid of employees.

Golly, he hasn't told me that yet and, even if he does, it probably
won't go into effect for some time. In the meanwhile, I'm going to
figure out how to get my employees decent coverage for reasonable
money.

Now, I can
either hire someone who I will have difficulty laying off when things
go bad AND have Obama punish me for not buying a gold plated health
plan OR, I can simply contract with the guys in India to make the
circuit for me, it is a no-brainer.

Cheap labor. The only reason not to carry an employee is because you
cannot afford it or justify it. If health insurance is the thing that
tips the scale, then you couldn't afford it in the first place.

Recently, the IRS started ragging on me about our SIMPLE retirement
plan so I thought about it and decided that since I do not
participate, why should I give the IRS further reason to make my life
difficult so...........end of SIMPLE. I save money and make my life
easier. You see, when you make business too difficult, some of us can
simply walk away. I mean, I was giving my people a free 5% match of
their contribution but the IRS decided to be a PITA, well, I figure no
good deed goes unpunished so, end of SIMPLE, no more good deeds AND I
let them know why I ended it.
Obama voters, It is YOUR fault and I am simply going sailing instead
of worrying about employees.

OK, we'll take up the slack for your slacker attitude. If the country
runs out of social security funds, I hope you'll be the first to
volunteer yours for the good of the country.

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:56:49 -0800, jps wrote:


I can't imagine not covering my employees with health insurance. It's
damned expensive and a pain in the ass but among the ways that I can
show them that we care about them and their family's welfare.

Some people seem to forget about how business related health care came
into effect. During WWII, wage and price controls were in effect.
Health care insurance was exempted, and used as a lure to hire better
employees. That lure still works. Don't provide health care, don't
expect quality employees, unless you are willing to pay them over market
wages, 20% over market wages.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:51:21 -0600, thunder
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:56:49 -0800, jps wrote:


I can't imagine not covering my employees with health insurance. It's
damned expensive and a pain in the ass but among the ways that I can
show them that we care about them and their family's welfare.

Some people seem to forget about how business related health care came
into effect. During WWII, wage and price controls were in effect.
Health care insurance was exempted, and used as a lure to hire better
employees. That lure still works. Don't provide health care, don't
expect quality employees, unless you are willing to pay them over market
wages, 20% over market wages.

Dead on right. If you're not willing to put up in a competitive
market, you end up with inferior resources.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:51:21 -0600, thunder
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:56:49 -0800, jps wrote:


I can't imagine not covering my employees with health insurance. It's
damned expensive and a pain in the ass but among the ways that I can
show them that we care about them and their family's welfare.

Some people seem to forget about how business related health care came
into effect. During WWII, wage and price controls were in effect.
Health care insurance was exempted, and used as a lure to hire better
employees. That lure still works. Don't provide health care, don't
expect quality employees, unless you are willing to pay them over market
wages, 20% over market wages.

Lack of health care is an invitation for a union to organize your shop
up here. The south is a different world.
A good small business is similar to a family, and folks look out for
each other. My kid works for a shop which provides health insurance,
and the older guys who have had to use it for cancer treatment, baby
delivery and such are highly loyal.
They pass that loyalty on to the youngsters.
I saw that right away with my kid. He has all that mechanic schooling
and I thought he would end up in a dealership making more money.
But he's happy in that shop making less.
Old-fashioned, bedrock American stuff. Eisboch had that right stuff.
I don't recall him mentioning it, but I'll give good odds his
employees had affordable health care.
I'll hold my tongue about the rest of stuff Froggy spouted, except to
say my understanding of the health care bill requirement for providing
group insurance for employees or be taxed doesn't even kick in until
50 employees. A public plan could get business away from the
insurance hassle altogether.
So his entire rant begins with political bull****, and then goes fast
downhill from there.
All the various wingers sound like commies to me.
Split everybody apart with bull****, turn one against the other and
keep everybody so busy fighting they don't see what's going on.
Only difference is no cheap vodka.
Par for the course. Don't care for golf, but hey.

--Vic

On Nov 7, 4:48*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:51:21 -0600, thunder
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:56:49 -0800, jps wrote:

I can't imagine not covering my employees with health insurance. *It's
damned expensive and a pain in the ass but among the ways that I can
show them that we care about them and their family's welfare.

Some people seem to forget about how business related health care came
into effect. *During WWII, wage and price controls were in effect. *
Health care insurance was exempted, and used as a lure to hire better
employees. *That lure still works. *Don't provide health care, don't
expect quality employees, unless you are willing to pay them over market
wages, 20% over market wages.

Lack of health care is an invitation for a union to organize your shop
up here. *The south is a different world.
A good small business is similar to a family, and folks look out for
each other. *My kid works for a shop which provides health insurance,
and the older guys who have had to use it for cancer treatment, baby
delivery and such are highly loyal.
They pass that loyalty on to the youngsters.
I saw that right away with my kid. *He has all that mechanic schooling
and I thought he would end up in a dealership making more money.
But he's happy in that shop making less.
Old-fashioned, bedrock American stuff. *Eisboch had that right stuff.
I don't recall him mentioning it, but I'll give good odds his
employees had affordable health care.
I'll hold my tongue about the rest of stuff Froggy spouted, except to
say my understanding of the health care bill requirement for providing
group insurance for employees or be taxed doesn't even kick in until
50 employees. *A public plan could get business away from the
insurance hassle altogether.
So his entire rant begins with political bull****, and then goes fast
downhill from there.
All the various wingers sound like commies to me.
Split everybody apart with bull****, turn one against the other and
keep everybody so busy fighting they don't see what's going on.
Only difference is no cheap vodka.
Par for the course. *Don't care for golf, but hey.

--Vic

Vic: Stop being so reasonable, you spoil the fun.

"thunder" wrote in message
t...
On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:56:49 -0800, jps wrote:


I can't imagine not covering my employees with health insurance. It's
damned expensive and a pain in the ass but among the ways that I can
show them that we care about them and their family's welfare.

Some people seem to forget about how business related health care came
into effect. During WWII, wage and price controls were in effect.
Health care insurance was exempted, and used as a lure to hire better
employees. That lure still works. Don't provide health care, don't
expect quality employees, unless you are willing to pay them over market
wages, 20% over market wages.


Even temp agencies offer health and retirement benefits to lure good
workers. It's pretty standard.

--
Nom=de=Plume