On 4-Sep-2009, H the K wrote:

Steve can read, unlike most "Amerikkkans." . promote the general
welfare
means letting you do what it right for you as long as it doesn't screw
with
others. It doesn't mean PROVIDE welfare for those to stupid or lazy to
provide for themselves.


Sorry, Steve-o, but your interpretation of that clause is entirely
wrong. You're just "to" stupid.

It's not a "clause," (hahahahaha....idiot) article or amendment. It's in the
introduction, formally known as the preamble. It carries no weight
whatsoever, even IF you were coherent.

Government lackey or union clown "member?"

thunder wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 15:05:22 +0000, Steve wrote:


Congress has no authority to grant "health care."

The hell it doesn't. It's in the Preamble, right after "provide for the
common defence". It's "promote the general Welfare".
Promote does not mean provide.

PROMOTE:
1. To contribute to the growth, enlargement, or prosperity of (any
process or thing that is in course); to forward; to further; to
encourage; to advance; to excite; as, to promote learning; to promote
disorder; to promote a business venture. "Born to promote all truth."
--Milton. [1913 Webster]


PROVIDE.
1. To look out for in advance; to procure beforehand; to get, collect,
or make ready for future use; to prepare. "Provide us all things
necessary." --Shak. [1913 Webster]

2. To supply; to afford; to contribute. [1913 Webster]

Bring me berries, or such cooling fruit As the kind, hospitable woods
provide. --Milton. [1913 Webster]

3. To furnish; to supply; -- formerly followed by of, now by with. "And
yet provided him of but one." --Jer. Taylor. "Rome . . . was well
provided with corn." --Arbuthnot. [1913 Webster]

4. To establish as a previous condition; to stipulate; as, the contract
provides that the work be well done. [1913 Webster]

Keith Nuttle wrote:
thunder wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 15:05:22 +0000, Steve wrote:


Congress has no authority to grant "health care."

The hell it doesn't. It's in the Preamble, right after "provide for
the common defence". It's "promote the general Welfare".
Promote does not mean provide.

PROMOTE:
1. To contribute to the growth, enlargement, or prosperity of (any
process or thing that is in course); to forward; to further; to
encourage; to advance; to excite; as, to promote learning; to promote
disorder; to promote a business venture. "Born to promote all truth."
--Milton. [1913 Webster]


PROVIDE.
1. To look out for in advance; to procure beforehand; to get, collect,
or make ready for future use; to prepare. "Provide us all things
necessary." --Shak. [1913 Webster]

2. To supply; to afford; to contribute. [1913 Webster]

Bring me berries, or such cooling fruit As the kind, hospitable woods
provide. --Milton. [1913 Webster]

3. To furnish; to supply; -- formerly followed by of, now by with. "And
yet provided him of but one." --Jer. Taylor. "Rome . . . was well
provided with corn." --Arbuthnot. [1913 Webster]

4. To establish as a previous condition; to stipulate; as, the contract
provides that the work be well done. [1913 Webster]

Get a better dictionary:

promote, v.

(prəʊˈməʊt)

[f. L. pr�m�t-, ppl. stem of pr�mov-ēre to move forward, advance: see
pro-1 and move v. So obs. F. promoter to instigate (14th c. in Godef.).]

I. 1.I.1 a.I.1.a trans. To advance (a person) to a position of honour,
dignity, or emolument; esp. to raise to a higher grade or office; to
prefer.

1387 Trevisa Higden (Rolls) VII. 145 Þe emperour i-smyten a�en
promoted hym sone into a bisshop [L. promovit in episcopum]. 1401
Pol. Poems (Rolls) II. 94 Preestes, wich to fatte benefices wolde be
promotid. 1535 Coverdale Ps. xxxvi[i]. 34 He shal so promote the,
that thou shalt haue the londe by enheritaunce. 1685 Stillingfl.
Orig. Brit. iv. 167 Leontius his way was, to promote onely those in the
Church, he was beforehand sure of. 1874 Green Short Hist. iii. §5.
140 Boniface‥was promoted to‥ the Archbishopric of Canterbury.

b.I.1.b Chess. To raise (a pawn) to the rank of a piece. (Cf. to queen.)

1803 [see promotion 1 b]. 1900 Westm. Gaz. 12 May 3/3 Compelled to
promote a Pawn to a piece. 1904 H. J. R. Murray in Brit. Chess Mag.
Dec. 466 [In Malay chess] a pawn may be promoted to the rank of any
superior piece, but promotion takes place, not when the Pawn reaches the
eighth line, but only after a further diagonal move.

c.I.1.c Sport (chiefly Assoc. Football). To transfer (a team) to a
higher division of a league (see promotion 1 d).

1924 Times 5 May 6/6 Bristol City,‥promoted a year ago, return to a
lower division. 1949 Times 25 Apr. 6/2 (heading) Swansea Town promoted.

d.I.1.d Curling. To move (another stone) forward by striking.

1937 T. Henderson Lockerbie 58 He left the stone alone‥deeming it
safer play to promote the Minister's stone.

e.I.1.e Bridge. To establish (a relatively low card) as a winner; to
secure (a trick) by this action.

1959 Listener 31 Dec. 1178/3 A further spade lead will promote the
nine of diamonds. Ibid., The fifth heart will promote one of North's
trumps. 1962 Ibid. 12 Apr. 662/2 The defence would take two rounds of
clubs and play a third club, promoting a trick for West's nine of hearts.

2. a.I.2.a To further the growth, development, progress, or
establishment of (anything); to help forward (a process or result); to
further, advance, encourage. (Formerly also with on.) spec. to further
the sale of (an article) by advertising or other modes of publicity; to
publicize (a venture, person, etc.). Also absol.

1515 Barclay Egloges iv. (1570) C vj/1 Such rascolde drames promoted
by Thais,‥Or by suche other newe forged Muses nine. 1526 Pilgr. Perf.
(W. de W. 1531) 12 b, This gyfte expelleth all vyce, and promoteth all
vertue. 1577 Hanmer Anc. Eccl. Hist. (1619) 236 The Emperour‥went
about to promote christian religion. 1644 Digby Nat. Soul iv. §5. 390
All the causes and helpes that promote on its impotent desires.
1698–9 (Mar. 8) Minute Bk. S.P.C.K., The Journal of the Honble
Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge. 1703 J. Tipper in Lett.
Lit. Men (Camden) 305 You will promote the Sale of it as much as
possibly you can. 1765 A. Dickson Treat. Agric. (ed. 2) 79 Vegetation
is promoted‥by communicating to the earth the food of plants, and
enlarging their pasture. 1849 Macaulay Hist. Eng. ii. I. 191 It could
in no way promote the national interest. 1874 Green Short Hist. ii.
§1. 60 Commerce and trade were promoted by the justice and policy of the
Kings. 1930 Publisher's Weekly 31 May 2732/2 The books all to be
individualized in appearance and fully promoted. 1965 Melody Maker 3
Apr. 7/3 With the group over here to promote their latest
recording,‥they could well make the chart. 1971 D. Potter Brit. Eliz.
Stamps x. 117 These packs are heavily promoted, with full-page colour
advertisements in the national press. 1976 National Observer (U.S.)
30 Oct. 9/3, I love chocolate-chip cookies, and I love to promote.

***b.I.2.b To support actively the passing of (a law or measure); now
spec. to take the necessary steps for obtaining the passing of (a local
or private act of parliament). ***

1721 Col. Rec. Pennsylv. III. 138 The parties concerned in promoting
this Bill. 1863 H. Cox Instit. 170 Many bills promoted as private
bills, largely affect public as well as private interests.

c.I.2.c Chem. To increase the activity or effectiveness of (a catalyst)
by addition of another substance; to act as a promoter of (a catalyst)
or in (a catalytic reaction). Loosely (passing into 2 a), to initiate,
catalyse.

[1920 Jrnl. Physical Chem. XXIV. 243 When more than one of the
components are themselves catalysts a difficulty presents itself in
choosing between ‘promoter’ and ‘promoted’.] 1930 N. K. Adam Physics
& Chem. of Surfaces viii. 280 Many reactions go on at the surface of
charcoal. It is a good catalyst for promoting halogenations. 1936 R.
H. Griffith Mechanism of Contact Catalysis iii. 82 The fact that a
substance may act as a poison to a catalyst, and yet itself be promoted
by that catalyst, is obviously quite possible. 1940 Glasstone Textbk.
Physical Chem. xiii. 1128 On an ordinary iron catalyst one atom only in
2,000 appears to be able to catalyze the reaction between nitrogen and
hydrogen, but when suitably promoted the proportion of active points is
increased ten-fold. 1946 Chem. Abstr. XL. 4876 The catalytic action
is promoted by a smaller quantity of BF3. 1947 Jrnl. Polymer Sci. II.
41 The presence of small amounts of relatively high molecular weight
mercaptans greatly promotes the copolymerization reaction. 1967 R. W.
Lenz Org. Chem. Synthetic High Polymers x. 270 N,N-Dimethylaniline
promotes the spontaneous decomposition of benzoyl peroxide, and this
combination can be used to initiate polymerization reactions at low
temperatures. 1975 P. H. Emmett in Drauglis & Jaffee Physical Basis
for Heterogeneous Catalysis 21 Why then is a K2O-Al2O3 promoter better
than Al2O3 alone in promoting an iron synthetic ammonia catalyst?

****II.II â€*3.II.3 To put forth or forward into notice or attention; to
publish, promulgate; to assert, advance (a claim). Obs. ****

1480 Caxton Chron. Eng. ccxxv. 230 The kynges nedes were put forth
and promoted as touchyng the kyngdom of Fraunce. 1555 in Strype Eccl.
Mem. (1721) III. App. xlvi. 139 The false surmised articles promoted by
Hugh Raulins, priest. 1563 Bonner in Strype Ann. Ref. (1709) I.
xxxiv. 342 That the oath shall be promoted in open place, where there
shall be a convenient assembly of people to witness the same. 1662
Stanley Hist. Chaldaick Philos. (1701) 18/1 An Intellectual
incorruptible pattern, the Print of whose Form He promoted through the
World. 1683 Moxon Mech. Exerc., Printing i, Gutenberg‥promoted His
claim to the first Invention of this Art.

â€*4.II.4 To incite, prompt, move (to something). Obs. rare.

1450–1530 Myrr. our Ladye 27 The aungels of god‥to helpe vs in time
of prayer, & to promote our prayers towarde god. 1646 H. Lawrence
Comm. Angells 80 The Angell keepers‥promote to all good, oppose all evill.

5.II.5 To cause to move forward in space or extent; to extend. Obs. exc.
dial.

1652 Needham tr. Selden's Mare Cl. 274 None of them ever attempted to
promote their Empire beyond the bounds thereof. 1660 Boyle New Exp.
Phys. Mech. i. (1682) 16 Other eminent Astronomers would promote the
Confines of the Atmosphere to exceed six or seven times that number of
Miles. 1683 Moxon Mech. Exerc., Printing i, William Caxton (‥who
first brought it to Oxford) promoted it to London also. a 1705 Ray
Creation i. (1714) 201 Francis Pirara promotes the life of the
Brazilians beyond the term we have set it. 1872 Spectator 7 Sept.
1137 ‘Sure it's I will promote her for your honour’, where the word
‘promote’ was used‥in its strict meaning of ‘cause to move forward’.

III.III â€*6.III.6 To inform against (a person); to lay an information of
(a delinquency, etc.); also intr. or absol. to act as informer. Cf.
promoter 3. Obs.

14‥ Chester Pl. (Shaks. Soc.) II. 82 Taverners, tapsters of this
cittie, Shalbe promoted heare by me, For breakinge statutes of this
****rey. 1550 Latimer Last Serm. bef. Edw. VI Serm. (1562) 130 [129]
There lacke men to promote the kinges officers when they do amisse, and
to promote al offenders. 1566 Drant Horace, Sat. iv. C j b, I am not
one that doth promote, why art thou frayde of me? 1596–1623 [see
promoting ppl. a. 1].

7.III.7 Eccl. Law. To set in motion (the office of the ordinary or
judge) in a criminal suit in an ecclesiastical court; to institute (a
suit ex officio promoto) by permission of the ordinary.

1681 H. Consett Pract. Spir. Courts i. ii. §1 (1700) 5 Its Official
[sc. of the Court of Arches] is the proper and competent Judge to take
cognizance of all Ecclesiastical Causes whatsoever not only at the
Instance of Parties, but also of his meer Office, or when 'tis promoted.
Ibid. i. ii. §3 (1700) 7 It is left to the election of the Plaintiff
to elect in which Court he will institute or promote his Cause. 1789
Sir W. Scott in Haggard Rep. Consist. Court (1822) I. 14 This is a case
of Office promoted [= ex officio promoto] against Thomas Calcott,
for‥erecting tombs in the church-yard‥without leave of the Ordinary.
1837 Lushington in Curteis Rep. Eccl. Cas. (1840) 601 Mr. Williams
[Vicar of Hendon], who promotes the office of the judge, has brought a
charge against a parishioner of chiding and brawling. 1849 Dickens
Dav. Copp. xxix, The office of the judge promoted by Tipkins against
Bullock for his soul's correction. 1889 Abp. Benson in Read v. Bp. of
Lincoln 11 May (Roscoe) 36 The archbishop's office was promoted against
him [Bp. Wood of Lichfield, 1681]. Ibid. 37 The suit [Lucy v. Bp. St.
Davids] was promoted ex officio before the archbishop. 1895 R.
Phillimore Eccl. Law (ed. 2) 837 In every ecclesiastical court there are
two modes of procedure—the civil and the criminal. In criminal
proceedings the office of the judge is promoted, [i.e.] inasmuch as all
spiritual jurisdiction is in the hands of the bishop or ordinary, his
office or function is set in motion. Ibid. 956 The Criminal Suit is
open to every one whom the ordinary allows to promote his office, and
the Civil Suit to every one showing an interest.

IV. 8.IV.8 slang (orig. U.S.). To borrow or obtain (usu. illicitly).
Also to exploit (someone) for material advantage.

1930 Amer. Mercury Dec. 457/1 Promote, to steal. ‘We got to promote a
boat to run the stuff in.’ 1934 J. M. Cain Postman always rings Twice
97 If I hadn't been there, and begun promoting him for something to
drink that afternoon, maybe he'd be here now. 1941 Argus (Melbourne)
Week-End Mag. 15 Nov. 1/4 In Army parlance to arrange something is
always to ‘tee up’; just as to borrow something is to ‘promote’ it.
1942 Z. N. Hurston in A. Dundes Mother Wit (1973) 226/1 You skillets
is trying to promote a meal on me.

On Sep 4, 11:13*am, thunder wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 15:05:22 +0000, Steve wrote:
Congress has no authority to grant "health care."

The hell it doesn't. *It's in the Preamble, right after "provide for the
common defence". *It's "promote the general Welfare".

While you guys would love to spin it that way, you damn well know the
founding fathers didn't intend that statement to mean that the gov is
supposed to provide health care or heath insurance to its people.
Health insurance didn't even exist in the US when this was written.

You're fooling no one. You're either being disingenuous, or you're a
socialist idiot.

Jack wrote:
On Sep 4, 11:13 am, thunder wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 15:05:22 +0000, Steve wrote:
Congress has no authority to grant "health care."
The hell it doesn't. It's in the Preamble, right after "provide for the
common defence". It's "promote the general Welfare".

While you guys would love to spin it that way, you damn well know the
founding fathers didn't intend that statement to mean that the gov is
supposed to provide health care or heath insurance to its people.
Health insurance didn't even exist in the US when this was written.

You're fooling no one. You're either being disingenuous, or you're a
socialist idiot.


"...promote the general welfare..." means Congress may initiate and pass
legislation that is in the general best interests of the nation.

That would include Social Security, Medicare, a public health plan, et
cetera.

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:06:16 -0700, Jack wrote:


The hell it doesn't. Â*It's in the Preamble, right after "provide for
the common defence". Â*It's "promote the general Welfare".

While you guys would love to spin it that way, you damn well know the
founding fathers didn't intend that statement to mean that the gov is
supposed to provide health care or heath insurance to its people. Health
insurance didn't even exist in the US when this was written.

You're fooling no one. You're either being disingenuous, or you're a
socialist idiot.

Man couldn't fly, either, when the Constitution was written, but we have
an Air Force? So, are you saying health care doesn't "promote the
general Welfare", or are you saying the Founding Fathers expected this
country to stay exactly as it was in 1787?

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:06:16 -0700, Jack wrote:


The hell it doesn't. It's in the Preamble, right after "provide for
the common defence". It's "promote the general Welfare".

While you guys would love to spin it that way, you damn well know the
founding fathers didn't intend that statement to mean that the gov is
supposed to provide health care or heath insurance to its people. Health
insurance didn't even exist in the US when this was written.

You're fooling no one. You're either being disingenuous, or you're a
socialist idiot.

Man couldn't fly, either, when the Constitution was written, but we have
an Air Force? So, are you saying health care doesn't "promote the
general Welfare", or are you saying the Founding Fathers expected this
country to stay exactly as it was in 1787?

So why not lobby for a constitutional amendment that would clarify the
issue? Barring that, sue for the elimination of the air force.

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:50:18 -0400, Lu Powell wrote:

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:06:16 -0700, Jack wrote:


The hell it doesn't. It's in the Preamble, right after "provide for
the common defence". It's "promote the general Welfare".

While you guys would love to spin it that way, you damn well know the
founding fathers didn't intend that statement to mean that the gov is
supposed to provide health care or heath insurance to its people.
Health insurance didn't even exist in the US when this was written.

You're fooling no one. You're either being disingenuous, or you're a
socialist idiot.

Man couldn't fly, either, when the Constitution was written, but we
have an Air Force? So, are you saying health care doesn't "promote the
general Welfare", or are you saying the Founding Fathers expected this
country to stay exactly as it was in 1787?

So why not lobby for a constitutional amendment that would clarify the
issue? Barring that, sue for the elimination of the air force.

Because denying an Air Force provides for the common defence, is as silly
as saying health care doesn't promote the general Welfare.

On Sep 4, 2:30*pm, thunder wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:06:16 -0700, Jack wrote:
The hell it doesn't. *It's in the Preamble, right after "provide for
the common defence". *It's "promote the general Welfare".

While you guys would love to spin it that way, you damn well know the
founding fathers didn't intend that statement to mean that the gov is
supposed to provide health care or heath insurance to its people. Health
insurance didn't even exist in the US when this was written.

You're fooling no one. *You're either being disingenuous, or you're a
socialist idiot.

Man couldn't fly, either, when the Constitution was written, but we have
an Air Force? *So, are you saying health care doesn't "promote the
general Welfare", or are you saying the Founding Fathers expected this
country to stay exactly as it was in 1787?

The Air Force would fall directly under the part about providing for
the common defense. It's just a modern weapon.

Of course health care promotes one definition of "general welfare".
What's a giant leap is asserting that the founding fathers meant for
the federal government to be directly *providing* this health care by
*taxing* the "rich" and then *transferring* that money into health
care for the poor. We do know that health care did exist back then,
but they didn't address it. They didn't write *anywhere* that the gov
was going to be able to take money from a segment of the population
to, in essence, give it to another segment. That's because they were
most definitely NOT in favor of any such mechanism!! There was no
power to tax, remember? That was added by others almost 100 years
later!

What we do know is that the founding fathers were running away from a
system and goverment that was way too "active" in meddling with
personal choices and freedoms. They set many limits on the federal
gov's reach, which of course has been overstepped now in lots of
ways. Bottom line... you're trying really hard to read something into
a statement that you know was never meant to be there.

Be honest and just say you're for government provided health care.
Don't try to push this bull**** on us that the founding fathers meant
it to be. BO may be able to convince your 10 year old of that next
Tuesday, but it won't fly here.

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:19:31 -0700, Jack wrote:


Be honest and just say you're for government provided health care. Don't
try to push this bull**** on us that the founding fathers meant it to
be. BO may be able to convince your 10 year old of that next Tuesday,
but it won't fly here.

You seem to be jumping to a few conclusions. First, I never said
anything about the founding fathers providing health care. I responded
to a post stating "Congress had no authority to grant 'health care'". I
posted that would come under "promote the general welfare", and
apparently, you agree.

Secondly, as I understand this health care reform, as it now stands,
health insurance will be mandatory. If that is the case, a government
option will be necessary, IMO, to promote competition. As it now stands,
the health insurance industry is not very competitive. I have no strong
desire for a government option to be the only option. I do know,
however, something has to be done on health reform. We are rapidly
approaching 20% GDP on health care expenditures. That is not
sustainable, and, as it is on the backs of businesses, it is anti-
competitive in the global marketplace.

A correction to your post, there most definitely was power to "lay and
collect Taxes" in the Constitution, Sec. 8 - Powers of Congress.