"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Gene" wrote in message
...

Bummer..... I just thought of something... it may be worth the
nitrogen to protect those TMPS sensors...
--


Most of the TMPS systems don't really measure tire pressure.
The system has speed sensors on each wheel and measures the rotation time
of each tire compared to the others. If a tire is low, it's number of
rotations for a given speed, compared to the other tires will increase.
That's what triggers the low pressure warning.

It's a natural add-on capability brought about by anti-lock braking
systems (which require the speed sensors).

So, air or nitrogen means diddily.

Eisboch

What about the sensors that readout PSI and not just the *low* warning. I
have two Buick Lucernes and the newest actually reads out the PSI for each
tire, the older gives a low warning without telling which tire is actually
low. The older system is the one that I understand measured wheel
rotation.

I was unaware of that. Learn something new everyday. It is my
understanding however that most of the tire pressure monitoring systems are
of the type I described.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
news

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Gene" wrote in message
...

Bummer..... I just thought of something... it may be worth the
nitrogen to protect those TMPS sensors...
--


Most of the TMPS systems don't really measure tire pressure.
The system has speed sensors on each wheel and measures the rotation
time of each tire compared to the others. If a tire is low, it's number
of rotations for a given speed, compared to the other tires will
increase. That's what triggers the low pressure warning.

It's a natural add-on capability brought about by anti-lock braking
systems (which require the speed sensors).

So, air or nitrogen means diddily.

Eisboch

What about the sensors that readout PSI and not just the *low* warning.
I have two Buick Lucernes and the newest actually reads out the PSI for
each tire, the older gives a low warning without telling which tire is
actually low. The older system is the one that I understand measured
wheel rotation.

I was unaware of that. Learn something new everyday. It is my
understanding however that most of the tire pressure monitoring systems
are of the type I described.

Eisboch

If i recall correctly the senors that measure PSI cost $300~400 to replace

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
news

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Gene" wrote in message
...

Bummer..... I just thought of something... it may be worth the
nitrogen to protect those TMPS sensors...
--


Most of the TMPS systems don't really measure tire pressure.
The system has speed sensors on each wheel and measures the rotation
time of each tire compared to the others. If a tire is low, it's
number of rotations for a given speed, compared to the other tires will
increase. That's what triggers the low pressure warning.

It's a natural add-on capability brought about by anti-lock braking
systems (which require the speed sensors).

So, air or nitrogen means diddily.

Eisboch

What about the sensors that readout PSI and not just the *low* warning.
I have two Buick Lucernes and the newest actually reads out the PSI for
each tire, the older gives a low warning without telling which tire is
actually low. The older system is the one that I understand measured
wheel rotation.

I was unaware of that. Learn something new everyday. It is my
understanding however that most of the tire pressure monitoring systems
are of the type I described.

Eisboch

If i recall correctly the senors that measure PSI cost $300~400 to replace


A tire pressure gauge is a couple of bucks at Auto Zone.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
news

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Gene" wrote in message
...

Bummer..... I just thought of something... it may be worth the
nitrogen to protect those TMPS sensors...
--


Most of the TMPS systems don't really measure tire pressure.
The system has speed sensors on each wheel and measures the rotation
time of each tire compared to the others. If a tire is low, it's
number of rotations for a given speed, compared to the other tires
will increase. That's what triggers the low pressure warning.

It's a natural add-on capability brought about by anti-lock braking
systems (which require the speed sensors).

So, air or nitrogen means diddily.

Eisboch

What about the sensors that readout PSI and not just the *low* warning.
I have two Buick Lucernes and the newest actually reads out the PSI for
each tire, the older gives a low warning without telling which tire is
actually low. The older system is the one that I understand measured
wheel rotation.

I was unaware of that. Learn something new everyday. It is my
understanding however that most of the tire pressure monitoring systems
are of the type I described.

Eisboch

If i recall correctly the senors that measure PSI cost $300~400 to
replace


A tire pressure gauge is a couple of bucks at Auto Zone.

Eisboch

Ever try to read tire pressure at 70 MPH? 8)

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...



A tire pressure gauge is a couple of bucks at Auto Zone.

Eisboch

Ever try to read tire pressure at 70 MPH? 8)



Good point.

I am not sure I am all for the gadgets and high tech, computer controlled
wizardry in cars.
KISS. I think about the '06 M5 I had (all two of them). They probably
represented the state-of-the-art in electronic, CPU controlled operation
that year, from the engine management systems to the electronically
controlled SMG transmission that operates the clutch electronically.

They were both a disaster. Traded in the first one because it had too many
software "bugs". Transmission would freeze up in neutral. The famous "Red
Cog of Death" would appear on the driver's display and your only option was
to call a flatbed. Traded that in for one that had a later build date that
reportedly had the bugs worked out. Nope. Car was a spectacular
performer, with 500 hp and handling that could safely rocket you along at
over 200 mph if you were so inclined (I wasn't), but the damn thing
wouldn't move half the time due to a software malfunction.

That's when I traded it for the Porsche 911TT. Porsche remains somewhat
"old school" and other than those electronics that are absolutely necessary,
it was a driver's car. I like that.

Ironically though, it was Porsche, back in the late 80's, that developed the
first tire pressure monitoring system, based on speed sensors on all four
wheels.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...



A tire pressure gauge is a couple of bucks at Auto Zone.

Eisboch

Ever try to read tire pressure at 70 MPH? 8)



Good point.

I am not sure I am all for the gadgets and high tech, computer controlled
wizardry in cars.
KISS. I think about the '06 M5 I had (all two of them). They probably
represented the state-of-the-art in electronic, CPU controlled operation
that year, from the engine management systems to the electronically
controlled SMG transmission that operates the clutch electronically.

They were both a disaster. Traded in the first one because it had too
many software "bugs". Transmission would freeze up in neutral. The
famous "Red Cog of Death" would appear on the driver's display and your
only option was to call a flatbed. Traded that in for one that had a
later build date that reportedly had the bugs worked out. Nope. Car
was a spectacular performer, with 500 hp and handling that could safely
rocket you along at over 200 mph if you were so inclined (I wasn't), but
the damn thing wouldn't move half the time due to a software malfunction.

That's when I traded it for the Porsche 911TT. Porsche remains somewhat
"old school" and other than those electronics that are absolutely
necessary, it was a driver's car. I like that.

Ironically though, it was Porsche, back in the late 80's, that developed
the first tire pressure monitoring system, based on speed sensors on all
four wheels.

Eisboch


I must have been thinking of some other over-priced replacement car part.
Although not oem you can get the whole kit for under $150.

http://www.automotix.net/bodyparts/2...-tpms409s.html

Car software problems. I have the two Lucernes, '07 and '08. On occasion
either one of them will lock the doors when you exit the vehicle. When it
first happened I talked with the local service manager and they had never
heard of it. Maybe a year later the same guy confessed that they were now
aware of the problem and the service guys roll down a window just in case
the car locks while they are working on it. GM will not do anything about
it.

It's a problem for me as we leave the keys in the car when they are parked
at home. I now carry a spare in my pocket.

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...



A tire pressure gauge is a couple of bucks at Auto Zone.

Eisboch

Ever try to read tire pressure at 70 MPH? 8)



Good point.

I am not sure I am all for the gadgets and high tech, computer controlled
wizardry in cars.
KISS. I think about the '06 M5 I had (all two of them). They probably
represented the state-of-the-art in electronic, CPU controlled operation
that year, from the engine management systems to the electronically
controlled SMG transmission that operates the clutch electronically.

They were both a disaster. Traded in the first one because it had too
many software "bugs". Transmission would freeze up in neutral. The
famous "Red Cog of Death" would appear on the driver's display and your
only option was to call a flatbed. Traded that in for one that had a
later build date that reportedly had the bugs worked out. Nope. Car
was a spectacular performer, with 500 hp and handling that could safely
rocket you along at over 200 mph if you were so inclined (I wasn't),
but the damn thing wouldn't move half the time due to a software
malfunction.

That's when I traded it for the Porsche 911TT. Porsche remains somewhat
"old school" and other than those electronics that are absolutely
necessary, it was a driver's car. I like that.

Ironically though, it was Porsche, back in the late 80's, that developed
the first tire pressure monitoring system, based on speed sensors on all
four wheels.

Eisboch


I must have been thinking of some other over-priced replacement car part.
Although not oem you can get the whole kit for under $150.

http://www.automotix.net/bodyparts/2...-tpms409s.html

Car software problems. I have the two Lucernes, '07 and '08. On occasion
either one of them will lock the doors when you exit the vehicle. When it
first happened I talked with the local service manager and they had never
heard of it. Maybe a year later the same guy confessed that they were now
aware of the problem and the service guys roll down a window just in case
the car locks while they are working on it. GM will not do anything about
it.

It's a problem for me as we leave the keys in the car when they are parked
at home. I now carry a spare in my pocket.

Leave your keys in the car...while it's unlocked?
They'd love you around here...in no time at all your cars would be in a
container on its way to Russia or some 3rd world country.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:07:50 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


I must have been thinking of some other over-priced replacement car part.
Although not oem you can get the whole kit for under $150.

http://www.automotix.net/bodyparts/2...-tpms409s.html

That looks like an aftermarket kit.
Probably better than the factory installed, which infects your dash
display. Looks like you can just toss this thing when it breaks,
display and all. Then you won't have a dead spot on the dash or
flashing lights there.
I'm with Eisboch on the KISS.
The more doodads to fix, the less I like it.

Car software problems. I have the two Lucernes, '07 and '08. On occasion
either one of them will lock the doors when you exit the vehicle. When it
first happened I talked with the local service manager and they had never
heard of it. Maybe a year later the same guy confessed that they were now
aware of the problem and the service guys roll down a window just in case
the car locks while they are working on it. GM will not do anything about
it.

It's a problem for me as we leave the keys in the car when they are parked
at home. I now carry a spare in my pocket.

Sometimes this lock/unlock stuff is a short/grounding/intermittant
connection problem.
I had it on my '97 Lumina, but only with the ignition on. My kid
found miswiring and bad connections in alarm/remote locking system.
He's done a lot of those. Who knows what a mech would have cost.
I've got a '93 Grand Am my daughter used until she got something else.
She got locked out twice, key in ignition, but not running, when it
locked of it's own accord. I won't close the door with the key
inside. Have to put "spare key" on my todo list.
Here's some of the issues/problems.
1. Manual locks are you friend. Good luck finding them.
2. Electric locks independent of the car computer can still
malfunction due to wiring/shorts. The Grand Am has independent locks,
not tied to the ignition, with its own fused circuit. Tracking down
the problem is straight forward. I just don't want to do it yet.
3. The Lumina auto-locks when the engine is started, but it's the
alarm system doing that, so again it was straight forward
troubleshooting it. It's only tied to the ignition through the alarm
system.
4. Then we have your cars. Let's call them Christine and Christina.
The locks are controlled by the girls' hormone influenced brains.
GM started controlling locks with the computer in about 2002.
And it might not be software, but intermittent ECU circuitry glitches.
That's nearly always indicated if temp makes a difference in rate
of occurrence.
KISS would not allow this. KISS would keep systems discrete and
avoid complexity for complexity's sake.
GM would have located the problem and fixed it.
Well, they would have located it.
Given GM's rep for customer satisfaction, maybe you would pay.

Reminds me many arguments I had with some system designers and
programmer. Those that liked complexity and massive modules that
could do everything. They considered it "elegant."
I considered it Christine.
I liked breaking a system up into independent modules and job streams,
so a problem could be quickly located, identified and fixed.
And modified or added too with no pain.
That philosophy worked very well for me, and everybody who paid me
agreed.
Since I'm retired and IT has passed me by I won't argue that anymore.
But DAMMIT, I WANT MANUAL LOCKS AND ROLL UP WINDOWS!

--Vic

"Gene" wrote in message
...


http://www.tireindustry.org/features/TPMS.asp
--



My daughter just paid big bucks to pass the MA safety inspection because one
of her tire pressure sensors was bad and showed up as a error code in her
soccer mom, Chrysler mini-van. (I call it her Egg-Mobile).

The MA state inspection is notoriously tough. Everything that the vehicle
was equipped with from the factory must work. If you have a car with a
fancier trim that includes additional lights, side markers or reflectors and
one doesn't work or is broken, it flunks, even though the same exact vehicle
in more vanilla form that doesn't have the extra lights, etc. will pass.

They did, however, get rid of emissions testing by running the car on a
dynamometer and measuring the exhaust gases. Now they just plug into the
car's computer and look for any error codes. Cars built before 2005 are
now exempt from emissions testing.

This really ****ed off a bunch of state authorized and licensed inspection
stations who paid big bucks for the installation of dynamometers in their
inspection bays. They are now tearing them out.

Eisboch