Dump Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Gmc. Keep Chevy and Cadillac. That overstuffed
Corp needs to get lean, mean, and green in order to survive. ( An admittedly
oversimplistic approach)
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...



Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless.


GM needs massive restructuring with an entirely new management team. The
corporate bozos in there now need to go.

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...

In other words, Herring was a bloodsucker. He still is. He's living
off the taxpayers now, and so is his wife.


I recently heard the result of a poll designed to determine how many
non-union workers in various trades would desire to become part of a
union organization if offered the opportunity. The poll included
trades typically involved with unions, included some former union
people and was conducted in a manner that kept their identity totally
anonymous to prevent any possible influence or intimidation by their
current employers.

Only 9 percent said "yes".


Eisboch



What has what you heard have to do with Herring's bloodsucking ways?

Wooosh.

Eisboch



Not at all. Send me the URL of the poll, if you will.

I didn't read it. I heard about it. I occasionally listen to this "talk"
radio program because it represents both the left and right points of view
on issues and does so in an adult, non-inflammatory manner. More
importantly, the two people are often very humorous in their "debates".

Here's the link to their show. It's a radio station in Boston, obviously.

http://www.wtkk.com/Hosts/JimandMarg...7/Default.aspx

Eisboch

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:11:38 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
om...
Don White wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:25:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:52:43 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care
administrators, period.
At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to
attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept?
One word...unions.
--

John H


What a ninny.
If only 8 percent of American workers belong to unions, how come they
have such a great influence?

You have to understand that Herring hid from reality most of his adult
life by staying in the army, and that his opinions were formed in a simple
society in which one always knew one's place. As a substitute teacher, he
may have been a member of a teacher's union, but assuredly he wasn't an
active member, and probably only paid minimal dues so he could suck down
the fringe benefits the union negotiated for all teachers.

In other words, Herring was a bloodsucker. He still is. He's living off
the taxpayers now, and so is his wife.


I recently heard the result of a poll designed to determine how many
non-union workers in various trades would desire to become part of a union
organization if offered the opportunity. The poll included trades typically
involved with unions, included some former union people and was conducted in
a manner that kept their identity totally anonymous to prevent any possible
influence or intimidation by their current employers.

Only 9 percent said "yes".


Eisboch

FWIW, I wouldn't join the union, and advised new teachers not to do
so. The 'legal protection' which was a big union selling point was
available through home owners insurance as a rider.

The local steward wasn't too happy with me,
--

John H

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government
results from too much government."

Thomas Jefferson

"HK" wrote in message
m...

GM, Chrysler Must Revamp Plans to Get More U.S. Aid (Update2)


By John Hughes

March 30 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC must
overhaul their recovery plans with deeper concessions to justify further
taxpayer aid, and bankruptcy may ultimately be their best chance, an Obama
administration official said.

The administration demanded the resignation of GM Chief Executive Officer
Rick Wagoner, and the company said he will be replaced by Fritz Henderson,
its president and chief operating officer. GM will also replace most of
its board and must increase reliance on producing more fuel-efficient
vehicles, under findings to be announced today at the White House by
President Barack Obama.

Chrysler will get $6 billion in aid only if it completes a partnership
with Italian carmaker Fiat SpA in 30 days, said the administration
official, who spoke to reporters and declined to be identified before
Obama presents the decision. Unless it combines with Fiat, Chrysler won’t
get any more U.S. help because it isn’t viable as a stand-alone company,
the administration found.

Auburn Hills, Michigan-based Chrysler values its proposed technology
sharing with Turin-based Fiat at $8 billion to $10 billion. Assuming the
accord between the two companies is approved, Fiat will produce its first
model with Chrysler in 2011, Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne has said.

Detroit-based GM sought as much as $16.6 billion in additional aid after
receiving $13.4 billion since December. Chrysler sought $5 billion after
receiving $4 billion. Both had to show progress by the end of this month
in matters such as GM’s need to reduce unsecured debt by two-thirds.

Shares Plunge

General Motors fell as much as 57 cents, or 21 percent, to 2.15 euros and
was down 15 percent as of 10:18 a.m. in Frankfurt. The stock has plunged
22.6 percent this year in Germany. GM tumbled 87 percent in New York Stock
Exchange composite trading last year, the most among the 30 stocks in the
Dow Jones Industrial Average.

Neither company completed the tasks, the administration official said. The
aid plans submitted to the government Feb. 17 don’t warrant additional
assistance, the administration concluded. GM’s plan to cut unsecured debt
by two-thirds wasn’t sufficient, and Chrysler’s debt was far beyond what
the company could sustain, the official said.

GM’s plan wouldn’t lead to success even in an improved economy, the
administration found. The new strategy sought by the administration would
focus on sustainable profit and significant changes in brands, workforce,
nameplates and the retail network. Board member Kent Kresa will serve as
GM’s interim chairman.

Kresa is a former chairman and chief executive of Northrop Grumman Corp.,
the third-largest U.S. defense company. He is also chairman of Avery
Dennison Corp., which develops self adhesives for consumer products.

Kresa, Henderson Comment

It’s “not yet known” who the board will nominate to constitute the new
majority of directors at the next annual meeting, Kresa said in a
statement posted on GM’s Web site. Wagoner said in a separate statement
that Henderson is “an excellent choice” to replace him and “the ideal
person” to lead the company through restructuring.

GM, which will continue to receive an undisclosed amount of government aid
as it develops a new plan over 60 days, will get greater guidance from the
Treasury and outside advisers in the process than previously, according to
the administration. The government was silent on how much more aid GM may
receive if it devises a successful plan.

Chrysler’s plan included assumptions that were unrealistic or overly
optimistic, according to the administration. Chrysler is being required to
get greater concessions from the United Auto Workers than its plan
requires and must get rid of the vast majority of outstanding secured
debt.

The government will support Chrysler for 30 days as it attempts to make
final its agreement with Fiat. Chrysler has proposed giving Fiat a 35
percent stake in the company.

Chrysler Corp., as it was known then, took out $1.2 billion in
government-backed loans in 1980 and repaid the money in 1983.

Quick Bankruptcy

Both companies’ best chance at success may include a quick and surgical
bankruptcy, according to the administration. Unlike a liquidation or
conventional bankruptcy, a structured process would make it easier for the
companies to clear away liabilities.

The bankruptcy process could be as short as 30 days, and the government
would provide so-called debtor-in-possession financing for the companies
if needed, according to the administration. Still, bankruptcy isn’t the
administration’s first choice, the official said.

To help encourage car sales, the administration will back warranties so
consumers who buy cars during the restructuring have confidence the
guarantees will be honored even if the companies go out of business,
according to the administration.

Edward Montgomery, an economist and former Labor Department deputy
secretary, will be appointed to a new post of Auto Recovery Director to
help communities hurt by job losses in the industry.

Sorry, but the upheaval will happen when the people get tired of the White
House firing private citizens. If it ever happens, that is.

The White House, particularly Big Lips should have nothing to do with this.
The company should float or sink on its own. Just like any other business
in the USA.

Steve

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...



Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless.


Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best
interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed,
not to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits?

I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow
renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union
under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness.

It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the
same conclusion.

Eisboch


Delisting is not the same as killing.

Oh...and the unions already offered up tremendous concessions.

GM needs massive restructuring with an entirely new management team. The
corporate bozos in there now need to go.



Assuming GM is to continue as a going concern, what possible benefit is
there to delisting?
It's too bloated to be a private corporation ..... look at Chrysler.
Chrysler is a fraction of the size of GM and, as a privately held
corporation, is the most unlikely to survive. Chrysler's death spiral
started over a decade ago.

Someone made the quip recently that GM is really a health care company
that builds cars in an attempt to support itself. All the existing
contracts with everybody they do business with, including the unions,
need to be torn up and renegotiated



I'm all in favor of a national health care plan for auto workers.

I'm all in favor of programs that would allow me to stay home, get a check
every week, have full health care like I have now with Humana, sleep as long
as I want, and to go fishing whenever I felt like it.

Steve

"John H" wrote in message
...

FWIW, I wouldn't join the union, and advised new teachers not to do
so. The 'legal protection' which was a big union selling point was
available through home owners insurance as a rider.

The local steward wasn't too happy with me,
--

John H


Neither were the students from what I hear!

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:04:12 -0400, wrote:

Dump Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Gmc. Keep Chevy and Cadillac. That overstuffed
Corp needs to get lean, mean, and green in order to survive. ( An admittedly
oversimplistic approach)

Buick has been the best of the bunch for quality, something that
Detroit could use a little more of.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
news

"HK" wrote in message
m...



Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless.


Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best
interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed, not
to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits?

I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow
renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union under
the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness.

It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the same
conclusion.

Eisboch

I think the White House is seeing the light because they have too. We can't
afford the whopping bailout tax bills. We can't afford to bailout every
defunct welcher debter in the country. They need to pay their bills or the
whole country is basically bankrupt.

That being said, the government is now beginning to worry about it's
futures. And the government union is going to win over GM & Chrysler
whiners. Government is doing this as they know you can kiss the economic
anything if you can't stem the bailout corruption. And that means less
government. Which will happen one way or another as North America can't
afford the tax rape, the trillions for losers programs and the corruption
insanity.

This is a depression, not a recession.

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...



Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless.


Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best
interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed,
not to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits?

I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow
renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union
under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness.

It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the
same conclusion.

Eisboch


Delisting is not the same as killing.

Oh...and the unions already offered up tremendous concessions.

GM needs massive restructuring with an entirely new management team. The
corporate bozos in there now need to go.



Assuming GM is to continue as a going concern, what possible benefit is
there to delisting?
It's too bloated to be a private corporation ..... look at Chrysler.
Chrysler is a fraction of the size of GM and, as a privately held
corporation, is the most unlikely to survive. Chrysler's death spiral
started over a decade ago.

Someone made the quip recently that GM is really a health care company
that builds cars in an attempt to support itself. All the existing
contracts with everybody they do business with, including the unions,
need to be torn up and renegotiated



I'm all in favor of a national health care plan for auto workers.

I am too, start by taking the cold dose of reality without whining. If you
feal the need to whine, get a job outside of auto.

Hell, you think this economic mess is a auto mess, when in fact they are a
very small part of the huge problem. And no one is bailing out everyone
else.

The whiny gripers need to pucker up and get a grip....

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:04:12 -0400, wrote:

Dump Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Gmc. Keep Chevy and Cadillac. That overstuffed
Corp needs to get lean, mean, and green in order to survive. ( An
admittedly
oversimplistic approach)

Buick has been the best of the bunch for quality, something that
Detroit could use a little more of.

Made on the same lines as chevy, same garbage, different label.

GM - Government Motors where why know how to waste your tax dollars!