Thanks for the responses.
Forgot about the computer. duh

It does seem wise to be judicious with WOT.
Water test not till 3/21.

I'm gonna by it unless it sinks or doesn't work at the splash.

It's a leftover 2008 model and is priced right.

On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:52:21 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:18:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Thanks for the responses.
Forgot about the computer. duh

It does seem wise to be judicious with WOT.
Water test not till 3/21.

I'm gonna by it unless it sinks or doesn't work at the splash.

It's a leftover 2008 model and is priced right.

I really think WOT takes time off the life of an engine, particularly
a 4 stroke but that may just be me..

Automotive 4 strokes run at WOT for any length of time have very short
lives. I've been told by a number of people who should know that
3400 to 3600 should be about the max for normal operation, maybe 4000
for outboards.

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:10:51 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

I really think WOT takes time off the life of an engine, particularly
a 4 stroke but that may just be me..
Automotive 4 strokes run at WOT for any length of time have very short
lives. I've been told by a number of people who should know that
3400 to 3600 should be about the max for normal operation, maybe 4000
for outboards.

4 strokes have come a long way in the last 20 years, mostly because of
the Japs. My Honda Prelude redlines at 7500 RPM and the cam timing
doesn't even advance until you get to 5000 (VTEC). I don't hear that
much either.
I guess I am still just old school ... but I do get a lot of hours out
of my engines.


My Yamaha F150 seems happiest cruising at 4000-4500 rpms. Redlined at
6000 RPM. I've run the engine up to 6000 rpm a few times, but not more
than a few times.

On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:32:18 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:23:43 -0400, wrote:

4 strokes have come a long way in the last 20 years, mostly because of
the Japs. My Honda Prelude redlines at 7500 RPM and the cam timing
doesn't even advance until you get to 5000 (VTEC). I don't hear that
much either.
I guess I am still just old school ... but I do get a lot of hours out
of my engines.


Back in the 1960's, Honda had a little 50 cc, twin cylinder, DOHC,
race bike that redlined at 20,000 rpm.

Yeah but those were the guys wouldn't't weigh pistons on a triple beam
because it wasn't accurate enough ;-)
We do have to credit the Germans and Japanese for making us change our
engine factories. We were still building the stuff that allowed us to
blow up all their factories. They got a clean start and kicked our
ass. My Merc is a Yamaha powerhead. American foot. Best of both
worlds in my opinion.

Those that keep talking as if 4-strokes are somehow "new technology"
simply because they are mounted on the transom of a boat are pretty
ignorant. If someone said that 4-strokes have come a long way in the
past 100 years, they might be on to something. Most of the
developments are not specific to 4-strokes. Materials, manufacturing
techniques, fuel delivery...

wrote:
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:50:53 -0400, wrote:

Back in the 1960's, Honda had a little 50 cc, twin cylinder, DOHC,
race bike that redlined at 20,000 rpm.
Yeah but those were the guys wouldn't't weigh pistons on a triple beam
because it wasn't accurate enough ;-)
We do have to credit the Germans and Japanese for making us change our
engine factories. We were still building the stuff that allowed us to
blow up all their factories. They got a clean start and kicked our
ass. My Merc is a Yamaha powerhead. American foot. Best of both
worlds in my opinion.
Those that keep talking as if 4-strokes are somehow "new technology"
simply because they are mounted on the transom of a boat are pretty
ignorant. If someone said that 4-strokes have come a long way in the
past 100 years, they might be on to something. Most of the
developments are not specific to 4-strokes. Materials, manufacturing
techniques, fuel delivery...



The biggest single advancement in 50 years for the 4 stroke was the
overhead cam. That eliminated a lot of valve train hardware.
The real enhancement was the computer control but that has creeped
into 2 stroke design too. EFI is where most of the efficiency and
clean burning came from. They had pretty much squeezed all the juice
out of the carburetor by the end of WWII. Fuel injection was dabbled
with for a couple decades after the war but the systems were pretty
clunky until someone put a closed loop, computer controlled system in
there. Combine that with computer controlled ignition systems and we
really have a well performing engine.
Alas, the ability to fix it on the water (or side of the road) is
compromised.


Compromised? Hehehe. Yeah. That's the ticket. Compromised. Pretty much
eliminated but for the obvious...no spark, loose wire, stuck starter,
something like that. No computer hookup, no special tools, no go.

I don't disagree with your "well-performing engine" comment, but in the
good old days in the 1950s, I had plenty of "well-performing" two stroke
engines that started every time, ran just about all day at WOT, and were
easy to repair without the use of exotic tools or instruments.

"HK" wrote in message
...

I don't disagree with your "well-performing engine" comment, but in the
good old days in the 1950s, I had plenty of "well-performing" two stroke
engines that started every time, ran just about all day at WOT, and were
easy to repair without the use of exotic tools or instruments.

And if you got lost, you simply turned around and followed your oil slick
back to port.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...

I don't disagree with your "well-performing engine" comment, but in
the good old days in the 1950s, I had plenty of "well-performing" two
stroke engines that started every time, ran just about all day at WOT,
and were easy to repair without the use of exotic tools or instruments.

And if you got lost, you simply turned around and followed your oil
slick back to port.

Eisboch

I suppose I could have done that, but in LI Sound, you could see both
shorelines... :)

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...

I don't disagree with your "well-performing engine" comment, but in the
good old days in the 1950s, I had plenty of "well-performing" two stroke
engines that started every time, ran just about all day at WOT, and were
easy to repair without the use of exotic tools or instruments.

And if you got lost, you simply turned around and followed your oil slick
back to port.

Eisboch

I suppose I could have done that, but in LI Sound, you could see both
shorelines... :)

I am thinking back to my youth spending summers on a small lake. We all had
big old Merc, Johnson and Evinrude 2 strokes on our boats that left an oil
slick whenever the leg was in the water, running or not.

The EPA would have a field day now-a-days.

Eisboch

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:15:02 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:50:53 -0400, wrote:

Back in the 1960's, Honda had a little 50 cc, twin cylinder, DOHC,
race bike that redlined at 20,000 rpm.

Yeah but those were the guys wouldn't't weigh pistons on a triple beam
because it wasn't accurate enough ;-)
We do have to credit the Germans and Japanese for making us change our
engine factories. We were still building the stuff that allowed us to
blow up all their factories. They got a clean start and kicked our
ass. My Merc is a Yamaha powerhead. American foot. Best of both
worlds in my opinion.

Those that keep talking as if 4-strokes are somehow "new technology"
simply because they are mounted on the transom of a boat are pretty
ignorant. If someone said that 4-strokes have come a long way in the
past 100 years, they might be on to something. Most of the
developments are not specific to 4-strokes. Materials, manufacturing
techniques, fuel delivery...



The biggest single advancement in 50 years for the 4 stroke was the
overhead cam. That eliminated a lot of valve train hardware.

That was a little more than 50 years ago. They were making engines
with dual overhead cams more like 100 years ago. The rest of the stuff
you list below is not specific to 4-strokes.


The real enhancement was the computer control but that has creeped
into 2 stroke design too. EFI is where most of the efficiency and
clean burning came from. They had pretty much squeezed all the juice
out of the carburetor by the end of WWII. Fuel injection was dabbled
with for a couple decades after the war but the systems were pretty
clunky until someone put a closed loop, computer controlled system in
there. Combine that with computer controlled ignition systems and we
really have a well performing engine.
Alas, the ability to fix it on the water (or side of the road) is
compromised.