On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Dec 14, 8:23Â*am, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:23:39 -0500, John wrote:
http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...tribution.html

Thunder, do you really believe the 'worker' has increased his output by
20%? Does that line make sense to you?

The fact that you read it in an anti-Bush article doesn't make it true.

As you are clearly too lazy to do your own search:

http://www.bls.gov/lpc/prodybar.htm

Let's see, 7 * 2.5 = 17.5 Â*You could then extrapolate, considering it is
2008. Â*So, yes, I do believe the 'worker' has increased his output by
20%, even though, I probably shouldn't believe anything that comes out of
the Bush government.

There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works
harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told
to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from
the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at
Standadyne, a non union shop...

Piece work is sort of a special deal. When I pushed pieces I was
aware that I was in my 20's and strong as a horse.
The guy on the next shift might be 50 and not so healthy or strong.
If I was being timed I had to go slower. Still worked hard, but
shortened my break times. Didn't want to screw up the older guys.
They did plenty of work.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800 (PST),

wrote:


There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works
harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told
to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from
the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at
Standadyne, a non union shop...



Piece work is sort of a special deal. When I pushed pieces I was
aware that I was in my 20's and strong as a horse.
The guy on the next shift might be 50 and not so healthy or strong.
If I was being timed I had to go slower. Still worked hard, but
shortened my break times. Didn't want to screw up the older guys.
They did plenty of work.

--Vic


Many of us have never had the type of work experience where you had to be
conscious of how productive you are compared to your fellow worker. The
closest I ever came to that I guess is 9 years in the military, but nobody
pressured you to hold back in doing a good job, or even a better job than
others. The benefit of doing a good job was learning your job code,
advancing in rank and earning more money. Everyone had the same
opportunity. Some did, some didn't. In the military if someone was noticed
to be purposely holding back, he/she would be in a world of hurt.

In my civilian experiences of almost 30 years now, the companies I've worked
for were too small to have a cast of thousands all doing the same kind of
work. The motivation to do a good job was the fact that your performance
contributed to the overall efforts and if you slacked off, it would be very
noticeable. Often, I was the only one doing a particular function, so
screwing up, performing well or being lazy had an immediate impact on the
company and was usually noticed by the management.

So, you people with other experiences have to realize that the concept of
"backing off" in performance is totally foreign to some of us.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works
harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told
to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from
the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at
Standadyne, a non union shop...


Piece work is sort of a special deal. When I pushed pieces I was
aware that I was in my 20's and strong as a horse.
The guy on the next shift might be 50 and not so healthy or strong.
If I was being timed I had to go slower. Still worked hard, but
shortened my break times. Didn't want to screw up the older guys.
They did plenty of work.

--Vic


Many of us have never had the type of work experience where you had to be
conscious of how productive you are compared to your fellow worker. The
closest I ever came to that I guess is 9 years in the military, but nobody
pressured you to hold back in doing a good job, or even a better job than
others. The benefit of doing a good job was learning your job code,
advancing in rank and earning more money. Everyone had the same
opportunity. Some did, some didn't. In the military if someone was noticed
to be purposely holding back, he/she would be in a world of hurt.

In my civilian experiences of almost 30 years now, the companies I've worked
for were too small to have a cast of thousands all doing the same kind of
work. The motivation to do a good job was the fact that your performance
contributed to the overall efforts and if you slacked off, it would be very
noticeable. Often, I was the only one doing a particular function, so
screwing up, performing well or being lazy had an immediate impact on the
company and was usually noticed by the management.

So, you people with other experiences have to realize that the concept of
"backing off" in performance is totally foreign to some of us.

Eisboch




Doing a "good job," and doing a job quickly are not always compatible,
as I am sure you know. When I worked cleaning and rebuilding the innards
of boilers, I was told to work at a slow, careful pace to make sure I
took enough time to do the job properly. All of the guys I worked with,
guys with many years of experience, worked faster than I did, but they
all worked a different speeds. Slacking off was not a problem. Bad work
that caused the boilers to fail when they were tested was. Rushed work
usually resulted in bad work.

On Dec 14, 8:59*pm, Boater wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works
harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told
to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from
the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at
Standadyne, a non union shop...

Piece work is sort of a special deal. *When I pushed pieces I was
aware that I was in my 20's and strong as a horse.
The guy on the next shift might be 50 and not so healthy or strong.
If I was being timed I had to go slower. *Still worked hard, but
shortened my break times. *Didn't want to screw up the older guys.
They did plenty of work.

--Vic

Many of us have never had the type of work experience where you had to be
conscious of how productive you are compared to your fellow worker. * The
closest I ever came to that I guess is 9 years in the military, but nobody
pressured you to hold back in doing a good job, or even a better job than
others. *The benefit of doing a good job was learning your job code,
advancing in rank and earning more money. *Everyone had the same
opportunity. *Some did, some didn't. *In the military if someone was noticed
to be purposely holding back, he/she would be in a world of hurt.

In my civilian experiences of almost 30 years now, the companies I've worked
for were too small to have a cast of thousands all doing the same kind of
work. *The motivation to do a good job was the fact that your performance
contributed to the overall efforts and if you slacked off, it would be very
noticeable. *Often, I was the only one doing a particular function, so
screwing up, performing well or being lazy had an immediate impact on the
company and was usually noticed by the management.

So, you people with other experiences have to realize that the concept of
"backing off" in performance is totally foreign to some of us.

Eisboch

Doing a "good job," and doing a job quickly are not always compatible,
as I am sure you know. When I worked cleaning and rebuilding the innards
of boilers, I was told to work at a slow, careful pace to make sure I
took enough time to do the job properly. All of the guys I worked with,
guys with many years of experience, worked faster than I did, but they
all worked a different speeds. Slacking off was not a problem. Bad work
that caused the boilers to fail when they were tested was. Rushed work
usually resulted in bad work.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They wanted you to work slow so there was less to re-do after you were
done.. silver spoon boy...

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works
harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told
to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from
the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at
Standadyne, a non union shop...


Piece work is sort of a special deal. When I pushed pieces I was
aware that I was in my 20's and strong as a horse.
The guy on the next shift might be 50 and not so healthy or strong.
If I was being timed I had to go slower. Still worked hard, but
shortened my break times. Didn't want to screw up the older guys.
They did plenty of work.

--Vic


Many of us have never had the type of work experience where you had to be
conscious of how productive you are compared to your fellow worker. The
closest I ever came to that I guess is 9 years in the military, but
nobody pressured you to hold back in doing a good job, or even a better
job than others. The benefit of doing a good job was learning your job
code, advancing in rank and earning more money. Everyone had the same
opportunity. Some did, some didn't. In the military if someone was
noticed to be purposely holding back, he/she would be in a world of hurt.

In my civilian experiences of almost 30 years now, the companies I've
worked for were too small to have a cast of thousands all doing the same
kind of work. The motivation to do a good job was the fact that your
performance contributed to the overall efforts and if you slacked off, it
would be very noticeable. Often, I was the only one doing a particular
function, so screwing up, performing well or being lazy had an immediate
impact on the company and was usually noticed by the management.

So, you people with other experiences have to realize that the concept of
"backing off" in performance is totally foreign to some of us.

Eisboch


Doing a "good job," and doing a job quickly are not always compatible, as
I am sure you know. When I worked cleaning and rebuilding the innards of
boilers, I was told to work at a slow, careful pace to make sure I took
enough time to do the job properly. All of the guys I worked with, guys
with many years of experience, worked faster than I did, but they all
worked a different speeds. Slacking off was not a problem. Bad work that
caused the boilers to fail when they were tested was. Rushed work usually
resulted in bad work.


That's fine Harry, but it's not what this discussion was about.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works
harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told
to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from
the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at
Standadyne, a non union shop...

Piece work is sort of a special deal. When I pushed pieces I was
aware that I was in my 20's and strong as a horse.
The guy on the next shift might be 50 and not so healthy or strong.
If I was being timed I had to go slower. Still worked hard, but
shortened my break times. Didn't want to screw up the older guys.
They did plenty of work.

--Vic

Many of us have never had the type of work experience where you had to be
conscious of how productive you are compared to your fellow worker. The
closest I ever came to that I guess is 9 years in the military, but
nobody pressured you to hold back in doing a good job, or even a better
job than others. The benefit of doing a good job was learning your job
code, advancing in rank and earning more money. Everyone had the same
opportunity. Some did, some didn't. In the military if someone was
noticed to be purposely holding back, he/she would be in a world of hurt.

In my civilian experiences of almost 30 years now, the companies I've
worked for were too small to have a cast of thousands all doing the same
kind of work. The motivation to do a good job was the fact that your
performance contributed to the overall efforts and if you slacked off, it
would be very noticeable. Often, I was the only one doing a particular
function, so screwing up, performing well or being lazy had an immediate
impact on the company and was usually noticed by the management.

So, you people with other experiences have to realize that the concept of
"backing off" in performance is totally foreign to some of us.

Eisboch

Doing a "good job," and doing a job quickly are not always compatible, as
I am sure you know. When I worked cleaning and rebuilding the innards of
boilers, I was told to work at a slow, careful pace to make sure I took
enough time to do the job properly. All of the guys I worked with, guys
with many years of experience, worked faster than I did, but they all
worked a different speeds. Slacking off was not a problem. Bad work that
caused the boilers to fail when they were tested was. Rushed work usually
resulted in bad work.


That's fine Harry, but it's not what this discussion was about.

Eisboch




Sure it is. We worked as teams inside boilers, and everyone was
conscious of how productive they were compared to the other workers.

By the end of the first month, my pace had picked up to the point where
I no longer slowing anyone down.

Tough work, working outside on a loading platform in the summer, inside
an old boiler, but the pay was terrific for a summer job.

Boater wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works
harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told
to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from
the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at
Standadyne, a non union shop...

Piece work is sort of a special deal. When I pushed pieces I was
aware that I was in my 20's and strong as a horse.
The guy on the next shift might be 50 and not so healthy or strong.
If I was being timed I had to go slower. Still worked hard, but
shortened my break times. Didn't want to screw up the older guys.
They did plenty of work.

--Vic

Many of us have never had the type of work experience where you had
to be conscious of how productive you are compared to your fellow
worker. The closest I ever came to that I guess is 9 years in the
military, but nobody pressured you to hold back in doing a good job,
or even a better job than others. The benefit of doing a good job
was learning your job code, advancing in rank and earning more
money. Everyone had the same opportunity. Some did, some didn't.
In the military if someone was noticed to be purposely holding back,
he/she would be in a world of hurt.

In my civilian experiences of almost 30 years now, the companies
I've worked for were too small to have a cast of thousands all doing
the same kind of work. The motivation to do a good job was the fact
that your performance contributed to the overall efforts and if you
slacked off, it would be very noticeable. Often, I was the only one
doing a particular function, so screwing up, performing well or
being lazy had an immediate impact on the company and was usually
noticed by the management.

So, you people with other experiences have to realize that the
concept of "backing off" in performance is totally foreign to some
of us.

Eisboch

Doing a "good job," and doing a job quickly are not always
compatible, as I am sure you know. When I worked cleaning and
rebuilding the innards of boilers, I was told to work at a slow,
careful pace to make sure I took enough time to do the job properly.
All of the guys I worked with, guys with many years of experience,
worked faster than I did, but they all worked a different speeds.
Slacking off was not a problem. Bad work that caused the boilers to
fail when they were tested was. Rushed work usually resulted in bad
work.


That's fine Harry, but it's not what this discussion was about.

Eisboch



Sure it is. We worked as teams inside boilers, and everyone was
conscious of how productive they were compared to the other workers.

By the end of the first month, my pace had picked up to the point where
I no longer slowing anyone down.

Tough work, working outside on a loading platform in the summer, inside
an old boiler, but the pay was terrific for a summer job.


Were you getting paid $12.50 an hour in 1970 for this job too?

BAR wrote:



Sure it is. We worked as teams inside boilers, and everyone was
conscious of how productive they were compared to the other workers.

By the end of the first month, my pace had picked up to the point
where I no longer slowing anyone down.

Tough work, working outside on a loading platform in the summer,
inside an old boiler, but the pay was terrific for a summer job.


Were you getting paid $12.50 an hour in 1970 for this job too?


I think it was 1964, actually, and I don't remember the rate. But it was
a hell of a lot more than my buddies were making at their summer jobs. I
had three college summers of relatively high-paying jobs because of
unions. It sure as hell was better than joining the Marines.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:09:57 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works
harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told
to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from
the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at
Standadyne, a non union shop...


Piece work is sort of a special deal. When I pushed pieces I was
aware that I was in my 20's and strong as a horse.
The guy on the next shift might be 50 and not so healthy or strong.
If I was being timed I had to go slower. Still worked hard, but
shortened my break times. Didn't want to screw up the older guys.
They did plenty of work.

--Vic


Many of us have never had the type of work experience where you had to be
conscious of how productive you are compared to your fellow worker. The
closest I ever came to that I guess is 9 years in the military, but
nobody pressured you to hold back in doing a good job, or even a better
job than others. The benefit of doing a good job was learning your job
code, advancing in rank and earning more money. Everyone had the same
opportunity. Some did, some didn't. In the military if someone was
noticed to be purposely holding back, he/she would be in a world of hurt.

In my civilian experiences of almost 30 years now, the companies I've
worked for were too small to have a cast of thousands all doing the same
kind of work. The motivation to do a good job was the fact that your
performance contributed to the overall efforts and if you slacked off, it
would be very noticeable. Often, I was the only one doing a particular
function, so screwing up, performing well or being lazy had an immediate
impact on the company and was usually noticed by the management.

So, you people with other experiences have to realize that the concept of
"backing off" in performance is totally foreign to some of us.

Eisboch


Doing a "good job," and doing a job quickly are not always compatible, as
I am sure you know. When I worked cleaning and rebuilding the innards of
boilers, I was told to work at a slow, careful pace to make sure I took
enough time to do the job properly. All of the guys I worked with, guys
with many years of experience, worked faster than I did, but they all
worked a different speeds. Slacking off was not a problem. Bad work that
caused the boilers to fail when they were tested was. Rushed work usually
resulted in bad work.


That's fine Harry, but it's not what this discussion was about.

Eisboch


Amen.

Except that Harry wants the thread to be about Harry.
--
John

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works
harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told
to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from
the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at
Standadyne, a non union shop...


Piece work is sort of a special deal. When I pushed pieces I was
aware that I was in my 20's and strong as a horse.
The guy on the next shift might be 50 and not so healthy or strong.
If I was being timed I had to go slower. Still worked hard, but
shortened my break times. Didn't want to screw up the older guys.
They did plenty of work.

--Vic


Many of us have never had the type of work experience where you had to be
conscious of how productive you are compared to your fellow worker. The
closest I ever came to that I guess is 9 years in the military, but
nobody pressured you to hold back in doing a good job, or even a better
job than others. The benefit of doing a good job was learning your job
code, advancing in rank and earning more money. Everyone had the same
opportunity. Some did, some didn't. In the military if someone was
noticed to be purposely holding back, he/she would be in a world of hurt.

In my civilian experiences of almost 30 years now, the companies I've
worked for were too small to have a cast of thousands all doing the same
kind of work. The motivation to do a good job was the fact that your
performance contributed to the overall efforts and if you slacked off, it
would be very noticeable. Often, I was the only one doing a particular
function, so screwing up, performing well or being lazy had an immediate
impact on the company and was usually noticed by the management.

So, you people with other experiences have to realize that the concept of
"backing off" in performance is totally foreign to some of us.

Eisboch


Doing a "good job," and doing a job quickly are not always compatible, as
I am sure you know. When I worked cleaning and rebuilding the innards of
boilers, I was told to work at a slow, careful pace to make sure I took
enough time to do the job properly. All of the guys I worked with, guys
with many years of experience, worked faster than I did, but they all
worked a different speeds. Slacking off was not a problem. Bad work that
caused the boilers to fail when they were tested was. Rushed work usually
resulted in bad work.




Not what was being discussed. Speed and working hard are not the same. I
worked piece work building pallets during highschool Late 1950's. Made
great money, but all depended on how hard I worked. I had to build the
pallet to spec so, if I slacked off I still made the same pallet, but I lost
$0.31-$0.60 for each pallet I failed to complete. You had to clean the
boiler to spec. but you got paid by the hour, so were not really encouraged
to learn how to work smart and do the job faster. Probably one of the
higher paying jobs I ever had considering inflation. Made $5-6 an hour.
Minimum wage was about $0.75. I went to work for Western Electric, union
job, in 1961 in the warehouse. Made $72 a week when I quit 9 months later.
They had gone on strike for 9 weeks for a $0.10 an hour raise shortly before
I went to work. Same thing the company offered in the first place. Seems
as if the union leaders were stupid. But they got paid during the strike.
the stupid ones were the workers who struck and did not get paid.