"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"RG" wrote in message
...

One of the financial experts interviewed on CNN commented on this. He
said that even if GM received the full requested government bailout ...
*plus* an additional 50-75 billion that he figured will be necessary in
the future, GM will still be an insolvent, bankrupt company.


Which is why the debate about whether or not to allow them to fail is so
absurd. The point is that they have already failed, big time. The
debate now should be about how to deconstruct and see if some sort of
Phoenix can rise from the ashes. Under the right circumstances, I
believe such a re-birth is possible and would have a reasonable chance of
success.

RG


I agree 100%. At first blush many people think of "saving jobs" which is
nice, but not reality. Those jobs have already been doomed, bailout or
no bailout, economic meltdown or no economic meltdown.

Eisboch


Where were the bailouts when thousands lost their jobs when World Com and
Enron folded. Probably as many jobs lost as GM would suffer. We survived.
Maybe they will bailout enron and Worldcom retroactively.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"RG" wrote in message
...

I agree 100%. At first blush many people think of "saving jobs" which
is nice, but not reality. Those jobs have already been doomed, bailout
or no bailout, economic meltdown or no economic meltdown.


Right. It's not about saving jobs in the short run, it's about saving
the domestic auto industry in the long run. Trying to save jobs without
radically dealing with the employer's viability as a global competitor is
a fool's errand. That only results in the scenario of "The surgery was a
huge success. Unfortunately, the patient died". For the first time in
history, there is an opportunity for GM to definitively address the
baggage that they have refused to deal with for so many years.
Unfortunately, senior management appears even still to be reluctant to do
so. Enter the bk judge, stage right.

Let Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota and Nissan, all domestic manufacturers
fill the gap. There are 5 valid domestic alternatives. Did you know a
Toyota Tundra has more domestic parts in its assembly than either of the
GMC Sierra or Dodge RAM? Don't listen to GM BS.

GM is a dinosaur who's time has come.


GM is profitable outside the US. Tells us the USA business model is in
error.

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 07:57:53 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:30:09 -0600, wrote:

From my perspective, eventually, several major car manufacturers are
going to fail anyway. There seems to be a glut of manufacturers with
very few open markets.

You know - you have good points, I think I have good points, Dick has
good points - we've all got some really good points.

And then there's bull**** like this.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...0_favor07.html

I mean seriously - the taxpayer gets f'd over everyday with crap like
this -what's 34 billion to keep Union workers from not working at 95%
of their base pay.

Nothing.

I've changed my mind - bail everybody out. I'm going to do something
like Eisboch - start a new business and apply for a bail out six
months down the road.

What the heck - might as well get in on the deal.

F 'em all, let's secede from the Union.

Yeah!!

And then we can apply for the real money - foreign aid...

The mouse that roared.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 19:54:11 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Boater" wrote in message
...


They don't design the cars and trucks, they just build what they told to
build.

Kinda like Lemmings with an attitude, huh?

Figures.

Can we get back to talking about Supreme Beings - meaning of course,
me.

It is all about me you know.

Well, maybe not. Heard an interesting factoid today. Until 1942, FDR and
all his make work programs, the unemployment rate never fell below 14%. And
Obama is proposing a new New Deal to fix employment problems. Plus while
losing 500k jobs the Government issued 155k H-1 work visas. Secede and ask
for foreign aid.

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:47:08 -0500, Boater
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 19:54:11 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"Boater" wrote in message
...

They don't design the cars and trucks, they just build what they told
to build.
Kinda like Lemmings with an attitude, huh?

Figures.
Can we get back to talking about Supreme Beings - meaning of course,
me.

It is all about me you know.
Some Supreme Being. You called the election wrong.

A truly Supreme Being is all things - including occasionally wrong.

And you still need to get a sense of humor.


I'll laugh when I see the heads of some corporate execs on pikes.

Along with Union Heads?

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

They don't design the cars and trucks, they just build what they told to
build.

Kinda like Lemmings with an attitude, huh?

Figures.

Eisboch

It's the way U.S. auto factories are operated. The disdain for workers who
haven't had some of the advantages you have had is palpable.

From what I gleaned here, Eisboch's *advantages* are the result of
self-sacrifice and *hard* work. You know, the American way.

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

They don't design the cars and trucks, they just build what they told
to build.

Kinda like Lemmings with an attitude, huh?

Figures.

Eisboch

It's the way U.S. auto factories are operated. The disdain for workers
who haven't had some of the advantages you have had is palpable.

From what I gleaned here, Eisboch's *advantages* are the result of
self-sacrifice and *hard* work. You know, the American way.


You forgot the most important ingredient. Luck.

Eisboch

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...

They don't design the cars and trucks, they just build what they told to
build.

Kinda like Lemmings with an attitude, huh?

Figures.

Eisboch

It's the way U.S. auto factories are operated. The disdain for workers who
haven't had some of the advantages you have had is palpable.

I would say that you don't know me very well. Which is understandable.

Eisboch

"Boater" wrote in message
...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Can we get back to talking about Supreme Beings - meaning of course,
me.

It is all about me you know.



Some Supreme Being. You called the election wrong.

Maybe not. Some of your own party members are complaining that it is
starting to look like
four more years of the same.

Eisboch

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 04:02:05 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Boater" wrote in message
...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Can we get back to talking about Supreme Beings - meaning of course,
me.

It is all about me you know.

Some Supreme Being. You called the election wrong.

Maybe not. Some of your own party members are complaining that it is
starting to look like four more years of the same.

Interesting - there is going to be a "scandal" during his first 100
days.

Statute provides that those born on foreign soil to servicemen or
diplomats serving are "natural born -- which is what makes John McCain
"natural born."

That same statute the Nationality Act of 1940 (amended in 19652)
requires the U.S. Citizen to have resided in the U.S. for ten years,
five of which were after the age of 14.

Ann Dunham was only 18 when BHO was born.

Obama's father lived in the US less than a year.

Obama's biological father was a Kenyan citizen and Obama's mother a
U.S. citizen who was not old enough to register Obama's birth in
Hawaii as a "natural born" United States Citizen.

It's technical I know, and a little silly I readily admit, but...

More political hay has been made out of technical legal issues which
are totally silly - it's a politicians stock-in-trade.