On Dec 6, 7:37*am, Boater wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. *Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Exactly. * Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. *They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. *He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't *be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy *(ex-Boeing) *seems to be a little more pro-active and may be
ok. *He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall
street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of
real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry.
I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work
for Chrysler, Ford *or GM.

http://www.mattbors.com/strips/250.gif

then

http://www.mattbors.com/strips/251.gif

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.


Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.

Are you going to bail out small business too?

I ask as most of the 500,000 people suffering in November, and maybe a
million in December are mostly non-union, non-auto. Who is bailing out the
little guy?

Might as well put the whole nation on welfare.

The only sane solution is to cut waste and get more competative with less
debt. If you can't do that like 300 million other people, you are screwed.
Letting Detroit into the public purse, a bad mistake for everyone in the
end.

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:57:57 -0700, "Canuck57"
wrote:


"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.


Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.

Are you going to bail out small business too?

I ask as most of the 500,000 people suffering in November, and maybe a
million in December are mostly non-union, non-auto. Who is bailing out the
little guy?

Might as well put the whole nation on welfare.

The only sane solution is to cut waste and get more competative with less
debt. If you can't do that like 300 million other people, you are screwed.
Letting Detroit into the public purse, a bad mistake for everyone in the
end.

Saving the financial sector was important - saving the automakers
isn't. The financial sector affects 100% of the economy, the auto
industry is lucky if it affects 10% of the economy.

Let 'em sink and the UAW with them. Once GM and Chrysler are gone,
Ford can survive and deserves to - Ford is at least doing something
about saving itself right here, right now.
--

Happy Holidays and Merry Whatever It Is
That ****es Liberals Off.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.

Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.


Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be
ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Funny, I would bet on Ford too. In fact, picked some up cheap the other
day, short term play.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.

Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Agreed. Cerberus had this in mind for Chrysler all along. Buy Chrysler,
strip out some good parts, cash and package a turkey for the market. They
have been desperate to unload this turkey for awhile now.

Surprises some senator or congress person does not bring this up. Or maybe
they have some private equity in Cerberus. LOL. There was a board member
they had a few years back, everything he sat on turned to trash including
NorTel. Needles to say I didn't buy in.

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.



Ford doesn't want them. They are trying to downsize themselves. They've
sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of dumping
Volvo.

Eisboch

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.

Ford doesn't want them. They are trying to downsize themselves. They've
sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of dumping
Volvo.

That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that
would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm
thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. And their design
team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been
stuck in neutral for a long time. When was the last time they
upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since
1999/2000 I think.

If it were up to me, and it isn't, I'd fold the Mercury/Lincoln lines
back into Ford or eliminate them. There's nothing there that's
exceptional even considering quality - they are Fords - so why keep up
the pretence?

What I find interesting is that Ford is looking like it's the best one
of them all in terms of structure, money and ability to move forward
without goverment money.

Ford may be the last one standing. Which would please me immensely.

I still say that this is a great opportunity for some capital
investment firm to step in and build a new car company from scratch
designed to compete with Honda/Toyota, etc.

I'd be willing to bet that it could be done, start to manufacturing
and distribution, in less than five years.

--

"Far better it is to dare mighty things,
to win glorious triumphs even though
checkered by failure, than to rank with
those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor
suffer much because they live in the gray
twilight that knows neither victory nor
defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.

Ford doesn't want them. They are trying to downsize themselves. They've
sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of
dumping
Volvo.

That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that
would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm
thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. And their design
team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been
stuck in neutral for a long time. When was the last time they
upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since
1999/2000 I think.


The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) Ford still
makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. The Mercury
version is still available to the public, but not for long.

Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks.

Eisboch

On Dec 6, 7:17*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
messagenews:s3ukj4dksrfj18mrb6l047d3a90lniqpk0@4ax .com...



On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
messagenews:b2rkj4hrnvj4m6p6prft2vp4s3bv7jvpms@4 ax.com...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...?mod=rss_opini...

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.

Ford doesn't want them. *They are trying to downsize themselves. *They've
sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of
dumping
Volvo.

That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that
would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm
thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. *And their design
team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been
stuck in neutral for a long time. *When was the last time they
upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since
1999/2000 I think.

The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) *Ford still
makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. *The Mercury
version is still available to the public, but not for long.

Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks.

Eisboch

Ypu mean no more Crown Vic? Oh my ! how about the Town Cars?

On Dec 6, 7:17*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
messagenews:s3ukj4dksrfj18mrb6l047d3a90lniqpk0@4ax .com...



On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:25:24 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
messagenews:b2rkj4hrnvj4m6p6prft2vp4s3bv7jvpms@4 ax.com...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...?mod=rss_opini...

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.

Ford doesn't want them. *They are trying to downsize themselves. *They've
sold their stakes in Saab, Jaguar, most of Mazda and are thinking of
dumping
Volvo.

That's probably true, but Chrysler does have a few products lines that
would merge very nicely with the overall Ford product line - I'm
thinking Jeep in particular if there was only one. *And their design
team could do a lot for upgrading Ford's design group which has been
stuck in neutral for a long time. *When was the last time they
upgraded the Crown Vic for example - that design has been around since
1999/2000 I think.

The Crown Vic is no longer available to the public. (as of 2008) *Ford still
makes them for fleet sales only ... police and taxie cabs. *The Mercury
version is still available to the public, but not for long.

Ford will end up with about three global car platforms and trucks.

Eisboch

All this started when they quit the Taurus.