"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

They're not *always* out to screw the customers, it
just seems that way when hindsight is involved.



Let's not forget what the M in NMEA stands for. They ARE NMEA...

"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

The last thing I want when I jump in the boat after a long
work week is to discover some cheapie consumer-grade device has gotten
corroded and shorted out my electrical system in an attempt to save
itself. But coming a close second is not getting reamed paying for
"marine" stuff. Especially when it's tweaked to be proprietary.


Wouldn't that be nice? But, let's look at the, so called, marine stuff.
A plastic box with cheap screw terminals you can buy at any Radio Shack
inside it on two little plastic pins not even screwed to the box. That
accurately describes a Raymarine Seatalk Junction Box.

A potted-so-noone-can-ever-fix-it epoxy box with cheap screw terminals
sticking up through the plastic from the PC board in the potting to hook
your tiny wires to. That accurately describes a Noland NMEA multiplexer.
It's not even in a protective plastic box. Ours is stuck to the cabinet
its in behind the helm with velcro because there's no way to mount it
otherwise.

An open chassis with many holes in it made out of painted aluminum. The
holes are open so cooling air can be drawn into the box to cool the
transmitter, the sea air being drawn over every unprotected PC board and
component, none of which are "potted" to protect them, and spit out
another hole on the other side. Cheap little plastic connectors with
very fragile pins and no seals of any kind, hardly any kind of locking
device to keep it from simply falling apart connects its vital control
cable to the reasonably-nicely-sealed remote antenna tuner. This
accurately describes the "marine SSB" the Icom M802, the flagship HF
radio of Icom's Marine Line.

A zinc-potmetal box, easily converted to zinc oxide, loosely covering
vital, unprotected PC boards inside it, but left with gaping holes in it
so the cheapest of direct-board-connector-pins can connect it to its
chinzy, unsealed control/data/power cable. Its main DC power supplied by
pushing the raw wires into a clamp held open against its spring by your
screwdriver. The potmetal box is mounted inside a big plastic case with
a cursory rubber seal, but only held together by FOUR little screws that
cannot pinch the rubber seal shut without cracking the cheap plastic the
box is made of with screws so far apart. Matters not, in the bottom of
the unsealed plastic box, there is a rubber drain inside one of the
little plastic compartments caused by the plastic "stringers" that
stiffen the plastic enough to support the units internal weight. The sun
and outside air temperature insure wet air is pumped in and out of the
cabinet...in at dusk when the dew forms on the inside of the plastic box
that turned cold when the sun went down...and out without draining the
water out of the flat-bottomed, compartmentalized box, in the heat of the
day. The humidity of the inside of this box is 100% at 100F or more all
day long. Everything in the box rots, rusts, corrodes and the potmetal
main chassis is eaten by the daily rainstorm like the inside of an empty
metal gas tank. This accurately describes the 2KW radome of a "marine"
Raymarine radar scanner. I've gone through THREE.

None of the so-called "marine" AM-FM-CD players is any different from the
car version with the completely open chassis, except it has a white front
panel instead of black. Marine my ass.

Amazingly expensive cabin fans made in China and monikered with
impressive names like Hella that don't even have a fan guard to keep the
kids fingers safe, mounted with a steel screw through a plastic base with
the cheapest motors on the planet. Marine or "consumer"?

Marine panel instruments you just KNOW are going to get splashed that
always leak past the glass to fog up the inside of the instrument so you
can't read it on a cold morning. Marine or consumer??

Just some examples. Equipment sold to yachtsmen aren't any different
than equipment sold to CBers or home entertainment customers.....

It's all crap.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Wouldn't that be nice? But, let's look at the, so called, marine stuff.

In the context of Raymarine's seatalk hs, the connectors are designed seal
out the marine environment. That other devices don't, even when claiming to
be intended for the marine environment, is no surprise. But hey, if posting
that manifesto lets you vent off that stress, g'head.

"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

In the context of Raymarine's seatalk hs, the connectors are designed
seal out the marine environment. That other devices don't, even when
claiming to be intended for the marine environment, is no surprise.
But hey, if posting that manifesto lets you vent off that stress,
g'head.



The connector box uses those little European screw terminals in a poly
plastic strip you shove the wires in the side holes on each side and clamp
them with a jeweler's screwdriver through the hole provided. The box is
just a plastic construction box with RAYMARINE printed on the cover. If I
were them, I wouldn't be so proud of it to put my name on it....(c;

Of course, I wouldn't advertise on the radome, either...hee hee....

Larry, NoLand hasn't been using the so called
"potted-so-noone-can-ever-fix-it epoxy box" for years now. You must
have a fairly old unit. I suggest that you take another look at the
Noland Engineering products:

www.nolandengineering.com

I suspect that when that potted mux or yours was purchased, it was a
lot better and less expensive than anything else available at that
time. Of course, the obsolete potted configuration is not best now.
That's why it is obsolete and not sold anymore.

The current NoLand products work great and they're still priced right.

"marv" wrote in news:1142658011.419723.50050
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

www.nolandengineering.com

http://www.nolandengineering.com/nm42.php

Yep...There it is. The only difference I see is the serial port has a
DB9 hanging by its pins out of the potted plastic box, now, instead of
all the wires. The rest of the little screw-terminals-to-crush-wires-
with remain, hardly a "marine" unit, what with all the copper wires and
who-knows-what-metal screw terminals electrolyzing themselves in the
humidity.

Wonder if the routing got any better? If you had the computer connected,
the "OUT" data pins had data on them, not from the 4-input ports properly
multiplexed...but from the serial port input from the computer. UNPLUG
the computer (make believe Windoze went tits up, a real possibility at
any moment), and the OUT port is DEAD! No, if you want to get
multiplexed data out of it with no computer connected to it, Noland tells
you to connected your NMEA (RS-422 level) instruments to the SERIAL PORT
OUTPUT (RS-232 isn't NMEA RS-422 levels)! I have a little toggle switch
in my helm-to-nav terminating box next to the Noland that switches from
COMPUTER to NO COMPUTER by connecting the network to OUT if the computer
is connected and to the SERIAL PORT OUTPUT terminal if no computer is on
the system. Dumb? I thought so. I wonder if this unit is still
connected that way, too stupid to know how to switch it when you shut
down the computer. Inside, it would only take single switch to do it
automatically....go figure.

(Meindert! Wipe that knowing smile off your face!)

Looks like same unit as ours to me, except for the DB9 hanging out of it
not properly mounted to anything.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Wonder if the routing got any better? If you had the computer connected,
the "OUT" data pins had data on them, not from the 4-input ports properly
multiplexed...but from the serial port input from the computer. UNPLUG
the computer (make believe Windoze went tits up, a real possibility at
any moment), and the OUT port is DEAD! No, if you want to get
multiplexed data out of it with no computer connected to it, Noland tells
you to connected your NMEA (RS-422 level) instruments to the SERIAL PORT
OUTPUT (RS-232 isn't NMEA RS-422 levels)! I have a little toggle switch
in my helm-to-nav terminating box next to the Noland that switches from
COMPUTER to NO COMPUTER by connecting the network to OUT if the computer
is connected and to the SERIAL PORT OUTPUT terminal if no computer is on
the system. Dumb? I thought so. I wonder if this unit is still
connected that way, too stupid to know how to switch it when you shut
down the computer. Inside, it would only take single switch to do it
automatically....go figure.

(Meindert! Wipe that knowing smile off your face!)

Damn, you caught me redhanded....:-)
To be honest, when I developed my multiplexers, I closely looked at Noland's
to see how it should not be done.
Also, this automatic switchover when you shut down the computer is a
standard feature here...

Meindert

Meindert Sprang wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message
...

(Meindert! Wipe that knowing smile off your face!)


Damn, you caught me redhanded....:-)
To be honest, when I developed my multiplexers, I closely looked at Noland's
to see how it should not be done.

grin

But, Larry might still object to the "screw-terminals-to-crush-wires-
with" that you use (like Noland). Note: he said it, not me. I actually
_like_ them. But that's probably 'cause I am European... Quoting Larry
again, this time on Raymarine's NMEA converter box:

The connector box uses those little European screw terminals in a poly
plastic strip you shove the wires in the side holes on each side and
clamp them with a jeweler's screwdriver through the hole provided.

Oops, even this criticism could be applied to your multiplexer:

The box is just a plastic construction box with RAYMARINE printed on
the cover. If I were them, I wouldn't be so proud of it to put my
name on it....(c;

Maybe somebody should start making multiplexers made in South Carolina,
USA ;-)

/grin

--
Kees
(Happy Shipmodul Customer)

"Kees Verruijt" wrote in message
...
But, Larry might still object to the "screw-terminals-to-crush-wires-
with" that you use (like Noland). Note: he said it, not me. I actually
_like_ them. But that's probably 'cause I am European... Quoting Larry
again, this time on Raymarine's NMEA converter box:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with screw terminals. They don't crush
wires when used properly. Most important is not to tin the wires before
putting them in the terminals.

The connector box uses those little European screw terminals in a poly
plastic strip you shove the wires in the side holes on each side and
clamp them with a jeweler's screwdriver through the hole provided.

Oops, even this criticism could be applied to your multiplexer:

Don't worry about it. We use non-ferrous screw terminals and they (the
multiplexers) have been tested in a salt mist and spray test for 28 days at
95% hum. and 35 degr. C. There was almost no corrosion found.

Kees
(Happy Shipmodul Customer)

:-)

Meindert

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:

Don't worry about it. We use non-ferrous screw terminals and they (the
multiplexers) have been tested in a salt mist and spray test for 28
days at 95% hum. and 35 degr. C. There was almost no corrosion found.



What do they look like after 28 days of spray test when connected to
COPPER WIRES. Noone's multiplexer is just connected to air. Put the
copper wires into the little holes and spray some seawater on them and
wait 28 days.....for the electrolysis to take hold...(c;

Nickel and copper are very close regarding electro potential, so there's not
enough voltage generated for electrolysis.

http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/T...ct?C=11526&F=0
&M=CINF&GIID=1293&LG=1&I=13
These. I really like these. Cheap cars use them, boats can afford them.

http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/T...ct?C=20018&F=0
&M=CINF&GIID=2198&LG=1&I=13

The problem with these connectors is that they are cheap in high volumes. No
ordinary distributor stock these.

Just some CHEAP, WATERPROOF, real connectors with STRAIN RELIEF so the
screw terminals aren't supporting the wires vibrating around in the
waves.

The wires should be mechanically supported anyway.

What are we talkin'....$3/unit?
We are currently paying around $1.50 for the terminals. The moment you start
using something "fancy", the price increases quite a lot.

Damn the shovin the wires under the cheap screw terminals. We left that
in the 1920's.....

That's nonsense and you know that.

Meindert