"Glenn Ashmore" wrote

Doug Dotson wrote:
..... Personally, I think the code should stay.

I am a bit worried about the bands going the way of CB ... I would like
to see
the writtens get a lot tougher ....

It's inevatable because of technology. One had to know Morse to be a ham
"back when", not because of FCC rules but because it was the only reliable
way to communicate. The rules merely reflected that technical reality. That
is no longer true today so requiring Morse makes about as much sense as
requiring visitors to Yellowstone Park to demo proficiency with flint and
steel before being allowed to see Old Faithful.

The same goes for the electronic part of the written tests. It was essential
for hams to know enough to stay out of trouble when everybody built their
own rigs, but that day is long gone. Everybody is an "appliance ham" because
it is too expensive to home brew. This means that written tests should
emphasize good operating techniques which means a lot of rote memorization.
You don't "understand" band limits in the same way we had to "understand"
how vacuum tubes and transistors worked - you just memorize them. In a way,
that makes the tests harder. I didn't need to study before aceing my
general exam 'cuz I could already draw Hartley and Colpitts oscillators but
I'll have to hit the books to pass my Extra cuz it's all memorization.

73, K3DWW

Comments below.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote

Doug Dotson wrote:
..... Personally, I think the code should stay.

I am a bit worried about the bands going the way of CB ... I would like
to see
the writtens get a lot tougher ....

It's inevatable because of technology. One had to know Morse to be a ham
"back when", not because of FCC rules but because it was the only reliable
way to communicate. The rules merely reflected that technical reality.

I think CW is still more reliable than phone, but certainly not more
effiecient nor is it more practical.

That
is no longer true today so requiring Morse makes about as much sense as
requiring visitors to Yellowstone Park to demo proficiency with flint and
steel before being allowed to see Old Faithful.

Not sure that being able to build a fire is a prerequisite to looking
at something. I agree that CW is obsolete, but your anology is a bit thin.
I wonder if when the code requirement goes away, the CW only portions
of the band will go away as well? Another poster suggested an additional
certification to operate in the CW subbands. That may be a workable
solution.


The same goes for the electronic part of the written tests. It was
essential
for hams to know enough to stay out of trouble when everybody built their
own rigs, but that day is long gone.

Some of the electronic portion is designed to make sure you don't kill
yourself. Others deal with not interfering with other services.

Everybody is an "appliance ham" because
it is too expensive to home brew.

Expense isn't the issue. Many hams these days just don't posess the
skills to homebrew. Homebrewing was just one aspect of the hobby.
Now days, instant gratification is the controlling factor.

This means that written tests should
emphasize good operating techniques which means a lot of rote
memorization.
You don't "understand" band limits in the same way we had to "understand"
how vacuum tubes and transistors worked - you just memorize them. In a
way,
that makes the tests harder. I didn't need to study before aceing my
general exam 'cuz I could already draw Hartley and Colpitts oscillators
but
I'll have to hit the books to pass my Extra cuz it's all memorization.

I would argue that drawing a schematic for an oscillator is pretty much
rote memorization. 4 years ago when I took my Extra written, it was
certainly not mostly memorization unless you mean memorizing the
test bank. I found it easier to learn the theory. The impedance calculations
and various other items did take some effort to learn.

73, K3DWW

"Doug Dotson" wrote
"Vito" wrote

It's inevatable because of technology. One had to know Morse to be a ham
"back when", not because of FCC rules but because it was the only
reliable
way to communicate. The rules merely reflected that technical reality.

I think CW is still more reliable than phone, ....

CW, yes, Morse (a form of CW) no. "Tap code" is better because it is easier
to cypher & decypher and most important requires only "dots" vs "dits" and
"daws". Simply write the alphabet in a 5 by 5 matrix, leaving out "K"
(substitute a "C"). "A" is dot-dot. "C" is dot---dot-dot-dot. "N" is
dot-dot-dot --- dot-dot-dot, et cetera. Easy to send with a hammer or
whatever you have. To decode just right what you hear then turn to your
matrix: 2/1, 4/5, 1/3, 5/3, 4/5 .... (c:

I wonder if when the code requirement goes away, the CW only portions
of the band will go away as well?

They certainly should! If Morse is so much more reliable at getting messages
through, as every ham believes as fervently as Billy Graham believes in God,
then why do we need special bands to protect CW from "less reliable" modes?
To protect selfish bad-fist rag chews from interference, that's why.


Some of the electronic portion is designed to make sure you don't kill
yourself. Others deal with not interfering with other services.

That *was* absolutely true back when we built our own gear, but one needs no
knowledge of electronics to use, say, an Icom 706 with an automatic antenna
tuner.

Everybody is an "appliance ham" because
it is too expensive to home brew.

Expense isn't the issue. Many hams these days just don't posess the
skills to homebrew. Homebrewing was just one aspect of the hobby.
Now days, instant gratification is the controlling factor.

Expense is not the issue?? My Yaesu 840 cost $500 new. I could have bought a
kit that's not as good for $1250. Sorry, but I'm not so well-off that $750
isn't important. But you are certainly right about the lack of skills. I
don't know a single ham who has the equipment needed to micro-position chip
componants then wave solder them, let alone the skills to use such
equipments - including yours truly. I guess they're all into instant
gratification.

IMHO homebrewing, not Morse, seperated us from the instant gratification
crowd on 11 meters. Nobody morns it's passing more than I. But it's gone the
way of the horse and buggy and vacuum tube and the Amateur Service must
adapt to that fact. I enjoyed hopped-up Fords and Chevys with hemi's and
22-cent gasoline but not any more.


I would argue that drawing a schematic for an oscillator is pretty much
rote memorization. ..... The impedance calculations
and various other items did take some effort to learn.

By that definition, all learning is rote memorization, especially
mathematical calculations (equations). More to the point, all are available
in reference books so why bother to memorize them, let alone test to be sure
one has memorized them before allowing that person to talk on a radio that
is, after all, little more complicated than a CB?

Even with off-the-shelf radios, some electronic theory
is necessary to use them properly and effectively. For example,
how does one use the IF Shift control? Know how a receiver
works allows one to use this feature better. There are many
such example. Antenna tuning, notch filters, SSB filters, etc.

More below.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Doug Dotson" wrote
"Vito" wrote

It's inevatable because of technology. One had to know Morse to be a
ham
"back when", not because of FCC rules but because it was the only
reliable
way to communicate. The rules merely reflected that technical
reality.

I think CW is still more reliable than phone, ....

CW, yes, Morse (a form of CW) no. "Tap code" is better because it is
easier
to cypher & decypher and most important requires only "dots" vs "dits" and
"daws". Simply write the alphabet in a 5 by 5 matrix, leaving out "K"
(substitute a "C"). "A" is dot-dot. "C" is dot---dot-dot-dot. "N" is
dot-dot-dot --- dot-dot-dot, et cetera. Easy to send with a hammer or
whatever you have. To decode just right what you hear then turn to your
matrix: 2/1, 4/5, 1/3, 5/3, 4/5 .... (c:

Not a clue what you are talking about here. Generally CW is short speak
for Morse code although one is an encoding scheme and other is a
emission type.

I wonder if when the code requirement goes away, the CW only portions
of the band will go away as well?

They certainly should! If Morse is so much more reliable at getting
messages
through, as every ham believes as fervently as Billy Graham believes in
God,
then why do we need special bands to protect CW from "less reliable"
modes?
To protect selfish bad-fist rag chews from interference, that's why.

The CW portions of the bands are pretty narrow. Wideband traffic
just chews up too much of the designated band segments.


Some of the electronic portion is designed to make sure you don't kill
yourself. Others deal with not interfering with other services.

That *was* absolutely true back when we built our own gear, but one needs
no
knowledge of electronics to use, say, an Icom 706 with an automatic
antenna
tuner.

I don't think so. I have gotten zapped several times by off the shelf rigs.
Might
be useful to know why you got that nasty RF burn.

Everybody is an "appliance ham" because
it is too expensive to home brew.

Expense isn't the issue. Many hams these days just don't posess the
skills to homebrew. Homebrewing was just one aspect of the hobby.
Now days, instant gratification is the controlling factor.

Expense is not the issue?? My Yaesu 840 cost $500 new. I could have bought
a
kit that's not as good for $1250. Sorry, but I'm not so well-off that
$750
isn't important. But you are certainly right about the lack of skills. I
don't know a single ham who has the equipment needed to micro-position
chip
componants then wave solder them, let alone the skills to use such
equipments - including yours truly. I guess they're all into instant
gratification.

Putting together a kit is not homebrewing in the normal sense. I routinely
solder very small surface mount chips onto boards. It can be done very
easily with solder paste and a toaster oven. The touching up with desolder
braid and a small tipped iron.

IMHO homebrewing, not Morse, seperated us from the instant gratification
crowd on 11 meters. Nobody morns it's passing more than I. But it's gone
the
way of the horse and buggy and vacuum tube and the Amateur Service must
adapt to that fact. I enjoyed hopped-up Fords and Chevys with hemi's and
22-cent gasoline but not any more.


I would argue that drawing a schematic for an oscillator is pretty much
rote memorization. ..... The impedance calculations
and various other items did take some effort to learn.

By that definition, all learning is rote memorization, especially
mathematical calculations (equations). More to the point, all are
available
in reference books so why bother to memorize them, let alone test to be
sure
one has memorized them before allowing that person to talk on a radio that
is, after all, little more complicated than a CB?

Knowing a formula and how to apply it are different things. When I was
in college my physics instructor allowed us to bring a sheet with any
formulas we wanted into an exam. Some folks still failed the exam
though.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:


I think CW is still more reliable than phone, but certainly not more
effiecient nor is it more practical.


I've been listening to this crap since SSB came out.....

In 1949, it may have been true.

But, I tell you what.....Go download WinWarbler:
http://www.qsl.net/winwarbler/download.htm
for free.

Install it, then simply plug your soundcard's audio input to the headphone
jack on any SSB radio set to USB on 14.070. Pick the faintest PSK31 trace
you can find on that display and click on the trace. Winwarbler will print
perfectly on a signal NO CW OPERATOR COULD EVEN HEAR. Most PSK31 operators
never run over 10 watts. PSK31, by the way, is NARROWER IN BANDWIDTH than
15 wpm CW!

Winwarbler, just to show off, will copy THREE SIMULTANEOUS frequencies
inside the SSB rig's 3 Khz bandwidth this way.

That old CW-in-a-pinch nonsense IS really nonsense, now.

Anyone in their boat's SSB that wants to see what's going on can download
Winwarbler to their boat laptop and tune the Boat SSB radio to USB on
14.070 Mhz, where 90% of the PSK31 traffic occurs. On Lionheart, I don't
even have to connect the M802 to the notebook! The notebook's built-in
microphone can hear the radio's PSK31 warbling tones and prints them
perfectly if there's not too much conversation going on around it!

PSK31 is the most uncanny form of HF communications ever invented....and it
was invented BY HAMS FOR HAMS. Sorry you're stuck on SITOR clicking and
clacking away.

Larry W4CSC and other fine old calls since 1957

There you go again Larry. My comparision was between
CW and phone and you bring up PSK31 Now that I think of it,
I have tuned into CW signals that I could hardly hear and was
able to get the computer to pull it out pretty sucessfully.

Doug, k3qt
s/v CAllista

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:


I think CW is still more reliable than phone, but certainly not more
effiecient nor is it more practical.


I've been listening to this crap since SSB came out.....

In 1949, it may have been true.

But, I tell you what.....Go download WinWarbler:
http://www.qsl.net/winwarbler/download.htm
for free.

Install it, then simply plug your soundcard's audio input to the headphone
jack on any SSB radio set to USB on 14.070. Pick the faintest PSK31 trace
you can find on that display and click on the trace. Winwarbler will
print
perfectly on a signal NO CW OPERATOR COULD EVEN HEAR. Most PSK31
operators
never run over 10 watts. PSK31, by the way, is NARROWER IN BANDWIDTH than
15 wpm CW!

Winwarbler, just to show off, will copy THREE SIMULTANEOUS frequencies
inside the SSB rig's 3 Khz bandwidth this way.

That old CW-in-a-pinch nonsense IS really nonsense, now.

Anyone in their boat's SSB that wants to see what's going on can download
Winwarbler to their boat laptop and tune the Boat SSB radio to USB on
14.070 Mhz, where 90% of the PSK31 traffic occurs. On Lionheart, I don't
even have to connect the M802 to the notebook! The notebook's built-in
microphone can hear the radio's PSK31 warbling tones and prints them
perfectly if there's not too much conversation going on around it!

PSK31 is the most uncanny form of HF communications ever invented....and
it
was invented BY HAMS FOR HAMS. Sorry you're stuck on SITOR clicking and
clacking away.

Larry W4CSC and other fine old calls since 1957

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

There you go again Larry. My comparision was between
CW and phone and you bring up PSK31 Now that I think of it,
I have tuned into CW signals that I could hardly hear and was
able to get the computer to pull it out pretty sucessfully.

Doug, k3qt
s/v CAllista

The computer isn't anywhere near as good copying CW in noise as it is the
phase-shift (FM?) keying of PSK31. Simply amazing how it can copy signals
too faint to even make out with your ears....

73, Larry W4CSC