Well, not a joke...

We like using our spinnaker pole (we don't have a whisker pole) to
hold our genoa out in dead-downwind or there-abouts situations. We
can rig it so we can furl the genny if needed, by putting the sheet
through the jaw, and of course can also release it readily. We have a
topping lift for the pole and fore and after guys. As we always use
it that way, we're able to "set it and forget it" by markings on the
guys, placing it in the same position each time. The pole rides on a
mast track on the other end.

However, in really rolly stuff, the sail moves around enough that the
sheets also move in the jaw, leading to chafe.

So, a couple of questions...

Given a spin pole rather than a whisker, and the need, perhaps, to
furl the genny quickly (and the jaw not being big enough to attach to
the clew), is there a better way to rig?

Secondly, for those advocating this modus, how do you avoid chafing
the sheets?

Thanks.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

If you don't have a whisker pole, but you do have a spinnaker pole, then I'm
assuming that you do have a spinnaker.

If you are sailing "dead-downwind or there-abouts" why not just use your
spinnaker? Problem solved.


"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
Well, not a joke...

We like using our spinnaker pole (we don't have a whisker pole) to hold
our genoa out in dead-downwind or there-abouts situations. We can rig it
so we can furl the genny if needed, by putting the sheet through the jaw,
and of course can also release it readily. We have a topping lift for the
pole and fore and after guys. As we always use it that way, we're able to
"set it and forget it" by markings on the guys, placing it in the same
position each time. The pole rides on a mast track on the other end.

However, in really rolly stuff, the sail moves around enough that the
sheets also move in the jaw, leading to chafe.

So, a couple of questions...

Given a spin pole rather than a whisker, and the need, perhaps, to furl
the genny quickly (and the jaw not being big enough to attach to the
clew), is there a better way to rig?

Secondly, for those advocating this modus, how do you avoid chafing the
sheets?

Thanks.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it
come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands.
You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
Well, not a joke...

We like using our spinnaker pole (we don't have a whisker pole) to hold
our genoa out in dead-downwind or there-abouts situations. We can rig it
so we can furl the genny if needed, by putting the sheet through the jaw,
and of course can also release it readily. We have a topping lift for the
pole and fore and after guys. As we always use it that way, we're able to
"set it and forget it" by markings on the guys, placing it in the same
position each time. The pole rides on a mast track on the other end.

However, in really rolly stuff, the sail moves around enough that the
sheets also move in the jaw, leading to chafe.

So, a couple of questions...

Given a spin pole rather than a whisker, and the need, perhaps, to furl
the genny quickly (and the jaw not being big enough to attach to the
clew), is there a better way to rig?

Secondly, for those advocating this modus, how do you avoid chafing the
sheets?


Duh! When making the sheets fast leave a bit of a bight in the knot. Fit the
spinnaker pole clip to the bight in the sheet. Size the bight so it fits
snugly and there will be little or no chafe.

I use a continuous sheet. I secure it to the clew using a figure 8 knot. The
bight I use is the looped end of the figure 8.

I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard.

Well, believe it or not, here I am again, responding to Wilbur (who,
despite the many sling-wielders does, occasionally, contribute more
than even my bandwidth [which I recognize to be immense], providing
the momentary benefits of tidbits).

O great teacher, I have a follow-on question...

Duh! When making the sheets fast leave a bit of a bight in the knot.
Fit the spinnaker pole clip to the bight in the sheet. Size the
bight so it fits snugly and there will be little or no chafe.

I use a continuous sheet. I secure it to the clew using a figure 8
knot. The bight I use is the looped end of the figure 8.


We use a continuous sheet as well, and every so often undo it and move
it around to help spread the wear load. However, that was before the
chafe of the subject post...

Ours isn't a figure 8, and even if it were, I'm not getting the
picture on a loop, not running tight as the sheets are used. I don't
know that we'd use that modus; a primary reason for the original post
had to do with the ability to reef the genny, or even stow it, without
having to deal with the pole, should conditions get snotty enough to
make you wish you weren't on deck.

As to a workaround using a short piece of line mentioned elsewhere,
that's exactly how I overcame the broken bail on the pole; we could
easily do the same with the clew, if we were willing to give up the
reefing convenience.

Yesterday was nearly an all-day spinnaker run (from Martha's Vineyard
to Block Island), but we only have an asym. We did, in fact, jibe it,
as you'll see on the SPOT page should you care to look at it.
Eventually we became overpowered and put it down in favor of the
genny, making it just before dark. Started in the forecast 10-15 NE,
full sails, then died so put up the asym wing and wing; ghosted along,
making me think we weren't going to get there before dark, but
eventually the wind picked up enough that I struck the main and we
did, in fact, make it anchor-down just before dark.

More later on that in my next log post, prolly following Labor day...

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
Well, not a joke...

We like using our spinnaker pole (we don't have a whisker pole) to
hold our genoa out in dead-downwind or there-abouts situations. We
can rig it so we can furl the genny if needed, by putting the sheet
through the jaw, and of course can also release it readily. We
have a topping lift for the pole and fore and after guys. As we
always use it that way, we're able to "set it and forget it" by
markings on the guys, placing it in the same position each time.
The pole rides on a mast track on the other end.

However, in really rolly stuff, the sail moves around enough that
the sheets also move in the jaw, leading to chafe.

So, a couple of questions...

Given a spin pole rather than a whisker, and the need, perhaps, to
furl the genny quickly (and the jaw not being big enough to attach
to the clew), is there a better way to rig?

Secondly, for those advocating this modus, how do you avoid chafing
the sheets?


I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard.

Responding to my own thread, (for latecomers, the question was how to
avoid sheet chafe on a poled-out genoa - I left the original below for
the curious) I have the solution:

Talking with a Seven Seas Cruising Association Commodore who's
anchored next to us yesterday, we learned the way he did his pole. I
see no reason it would not cure our problem.

He'd been wing/wing on an Atlantic passage, for days at a time. He
used a snatch block to the pole jaw, with the sheet passing through
the block, rather than the jaw.

You could still furl with the pole in place, pull the pin if you had
to unhook quickly, but had no chafe issues.

Thanks for all the contributors to this thread. I'll try to come back
with a log posting sometime soon, but we're too busy lately to take
the time. Today is resew (restitch) the MackPack, redo the lazy jacks
locations, and try to ameliorate the butcher job the guy I had our new
main sent to last year, the worst end result being that the battens
catch on the way up, others being mere nuisances.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
Well, not a joke...

We like using our spinnaker pole (we don't have a whisker pole) to
hold our genoa out in dead-downwind or there-abouts situations.
We can rig it so we can furl the genny if needed, by putting the
sheet through the jaw, and of course can also release it readily.
We have a topping lift for the pole and fore and after guys. As
we always use it that way, we're able to "set it and forget it" by
markings on the guys, placing it in the same position each time.
The pole rides on a mast track on the other end.

However, in really rolly stuff, the sail moves around enough that
the sheets also move in the jaw, leading to chafe.

So, a couple of questions...

Given a spin pole rather than a whisker, and the need, perhaps, to
furl the genny quickly (and the jaw not being big enough to attach
to the clew), is there a better way to rig?

Secondly, for those advocating this modus, how do you avoid
chafing the sheets?

"Skip Gundlach" wrote

..... and try to ameliorate the butcher job the guy I had our new main
sent to last year, the worst end result being that the battens catch on
the way up, others being mere nuisances.


If you find a way to keep battens from catching on lazy jacks on a marconi
main, other that hoisting quickly exactly when the wind centers the sail,
please let me know what it is.

I've rigged my lazy jacks to stow out of the way secured under the reefing
hooks and set them up just before lowering. It's quick and easy but might
not be on a larger boat with a bimini. I've recently experimented with
hoisting with the lazy jacks set up. It works well with a crew briefed to
steer so the main centers but I do a lot of single handed hoisting in the
tight quarters of the harbor so usually just let the sail dump on the cabin
top so I can hoist quickly without being exactly head to wind. Even though
the sheet is free, the sail doesn't seem to center between the jacks unless
there is a helmsman steering the boat back and forth.

BTW are you going to turn SPOT back on?

--
Roger Long

Hi, Roger, et. al.,

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Skip Gundlach" wrote

..... and try to ameliorate the butcher job the guy I had our new
main sent to last year, the worst end result being that the battens
catch on the way up, others being mere nuisances.


If you find a way to keep battens from catching on lazy jacks on a
marconi main, other that hoisting quickly exactly when the wind
centers the sail, please let me know what it is.

I've rigged my lazy jacks to stow out of the way secured under the
reefing hooks and set them up just before lowering. It's quick and
easy but might not be on a larger boat with a bimini. I've
recently experimented with hoisting with the lazy jacks set up. It
works well with a crew briefed to steer so the main centers but I do
a lot of single handed hoisting in the tight quarters of the harbor
so usually just let the sail dump on the cabin top so I can hoist
quickly without being exactly head to wind. Even though the sheet
is free, the sail doesn't seem to center between the jacks unless
there is a helmsman steering the boat back and forth.


The problem with my sail is that Sail Care disregarded our very
detailed discussions and instructions and CUT OPEN the closed pockets
we had ordered (it could have been as they altered it, free), and
added Velcro pulls for adjustment. The specific I instructed was to
just use the battslides' bolt tensioner.

That protrusion, past the end of the sail, plus the fact that the
batten now protrudes from the surface of the sail, is what catches.
With any port wind, they foul. With a starboard wind, there's no
problem, because the sail itself doesn't catch. Then, of course, they
had the nerve to charge me for it, as well as another element which
could have been done at the factory/loft, free, and, then, adding
insult to injury, instead of using the intermediate, bolt-on slides,
they taped standard slides through the (half as many as ordered,
making flaking a real PITA) grommets (would have been free from the
loft) they also installed and charged me for.

I also have the ability to drop and pull parallel to the sail cover
the jacks; if I can't solve my problem, just dropping the starboard
side would cure it. I'm just ****ed and curse him every time I have
to raise the sail. Dropping it, with the strong track system I
installed, is literally, in an emergency, a matter of freeing the
halyard and letting go - it's down in less than a second. To be fair,
I've not tried it under stress (windy, not into the wind) but I'd
expect the same results.

However, given the butcher job they did on my slides' locations (far
too few, regardless of sewn or bolted), the bottom ~20" - and all the
way to the top at ~15" - folds (that's 40" down to "only" 30" between
slides!) don't flake nicely, and the battens usually don't lay flat,
or are inverted from the proper position. Now that I've redone the
lazy jacks, flaking it as I come down is much easier, but the new
locations have the ability to catch each and every batten, DAMMIT, MF,
!Q@#$%^&*

If they'd just done it as specified, I would not have the problem.
So, as to yours, a solution which I'm considering may also work;
sewing some sort of flap over the Velcro protrusions so that there's
no crevice in the sail/batten point.

BTW are you going to turn SPOT back on?

--
Roger Long

We'll not turn on spot again until we're moving; then, we'll try your
sequence and hope for the best.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:57:57 -0400, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Well, not a joke...

We like using our spinnaker pole (we don't have a whisker pole) to
hold our genoa out in dead-downwind or there-abouts situations. We
can rig it so we can furl the genny if needed, by putting the sheet
through the jaw, and of course can also release it readily. We have a
topping lift for the pole and fore and after guys. As we always use
it that way, we're able to "set it and forget it" by markings on the
guys, placing it in the same position each time. The pole rides on a
mast track on the other end.

However, in really rolly stuff, the sail moves around enough that the
sheets also move in the jaw, leading to chafe.

So, a couple of questions...

Given a spin pole rather than a whisker, and the need, perhaps, to
furl the genny quickly (and the jaw not being big enough to attach to
the clew), is there a better way to rig?


You are doing it the 'correct' way ( the way RYA examiner's examiners
like it done)

Secondly, for those advocating this modus, how do you avoid chafing
the sheets?

Consider attaching a block, by a short strop, to the end of the pole
or slackenng the guys so that the end of the pole can move enough to
accomodate the stretching of the jib sheet.

It's normal to get some chafing at the pole during long offshore runs.
You could try putting a foot or two of braid over the sheets at the
wear point, changing it out once in a while. This is a common problem
on racing boats doing long runs under spinnaker.

================

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:57:57 -0400, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Well, not a joke...

We like using our spinnaker pole (we don't have a whisker pole) to
hold our genoa out in dead-downwind or there-abouts situations. We
can rig it so we can furl the genny if needed, by putting the sheet
through the jaw, and of course can also release it readily. We have a
topping lift for the pole and fore and after guys. As we always use
it that way, we're able to "set it and forget it" by markings on the
guys, placing it in the same position each time. The pole rides on a
mast track on the other end.

However, in really rolly stuff, the sail moves around enough that the
sheets also move in the jaw, leading to chafe.

So, a couple of questions...

Given a spin pole rather than a whisker, and the need, perhaps, to
furl the genny quickly (and the jaw not being big enough to attach to
the clew), is there a better way to rig?

Secondly, for those advocating this modus, how do you avoid chafing
the sheets?

Thanks.

On 2008-08-23 14:57:57 -0400, "Skip Gundlach" said:

We like using our spinnaker pole (we don't have a whisker pole) to
hold our genoa out in dead-downwind or there-abouts situations.

Well, my solution is to only do dead-downwind wing-on-wing for short
periods, maybe for a half hour, and no pole.

"Tacking" downwind is faster, more comfortable, requires less attention
and avoids the possibility of accidental gybes, though it demands
periodic gybes to keep to the rhumb line.

If you're married to doing a poled-out wing-on-wing, I might suggest
attaching a sacrificial loop to the clew for the pole's jaws. You won't
eliminate chafe, though the idea of putting some braid over the sheets
might give you some more time before you have to replace the sheets.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/