In article , "Scott Vernon" wrote:

"Paul Revere" wrote in message
newsa4gc.17470$bl.3425@okepread03...
In article , "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:
Scott,
Specifically? Well Scott, I not a lawyer so I can't quote you
specific
rights. Perhaps it's more a feeling that the newer laws being passed in
the
name of terrorist defense will be used as an excuse to justify more
intrusion into our personal lives.
Paul

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
.. .
Which rights, specifically were revoked?


No rights were "revoked" (which would require at least one new
Constitutional
Amendment), but a number are violated by the Patriot Act.

Amendment IV - The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
houses,
papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not
be
violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probably cause, supported
by
oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched,
and
the persons or things to be seized.


Wasn't that thrown out the window years ago in the name of the so-called
''drug war''?

SV



A number of rights have been systematically violated in the name of the "war
on drugs" but because the "war on terror" scares more people, public support
for systematic violations of rights has more popular support.

May be, but I have yet to notice any difference in my life. But then, I'm
not a criminal.

SV

"Paul Revere" wrote



A number of rights have been systematically violated in the name of the
"war
on drugs" but because the "war on terror" scares more people, public
support
for systematic violations of rights has more popular support.

In article , "Scott Vernon" wrote:
May be, but I have yet to notice any difference in my life. But then, I'm
not a criminal.

SV

And apparently not of Arabic descent either.

Many of those held without bail or legal representation were freed after weeks
or months in jail after being "cleared" of any crime.

"In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because
I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I
didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me--and by that
time no one was left to speak up."

Written by Martin Niemöller(1892-1984)



"Paul Revere" wrote



A number of rights have been systematically violated in the name of the
"war
on drugs" but because the "war on terror" scares more people, public
support
for systematic violations of rights has more popular support.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:01:34 GMT, (Paul Revere)
wrote:

In article , "Scott Vernon" wrote:
May be, but I have yet to notice any difference in my life. But then, I'm
not a criminal.

SV

And apparently not of Arabic descent either.

Many of those held without bail or legal representation were freed after weeks
or months in jail after being "cleared" of any crime.

"In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because
I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I
didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me--and by that
time no one was left to speak up."

Written by Martin Niemöller(1892-1984)



"Paul Revere" wrote



A number of rights have been systematically violated in the name of the
"war
on drugs" but because the "war on terror" scares more people, public
support
for systematic violations of rights has more popular support.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:01:34 GMT, (Paul Revere)
wrote:

In article , "Scott Vernon" wrote:
May be, but I have yet to notice any difference in my life. But then, I'm
not a criminal.

SV

And apparently not of Arabic descent either.

Many of those held without bail or legal representation were freed after weeks
or months in jail after being "cleared" of any crime.

"In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because
I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I
didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me--and by that
time no one was left to speak up."

Written by Martin Niemöller(1892-1984)



"Paul Revere" wrote



A number of rights have been systematically violated in the name of the
"war
on drugs" but because the "war on terror" scares more people, public
support
for systematic violations of rights has more popular support.

In article , "Scott Vernon" wrote:
May be, but I have yet to notice any difference in my life. But then, I'm
not a criminal.

SV

And apparently not of Arabic descent either.

Many of those held without bail or legal representation were freed after weeks
or months in jail after being "cleared" of any crime.

"In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because
I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I
didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me--and by that
time no one was left to speak up."

Written by Martin Niemöller(1892-1984)



"Paul Revere" wrote



A number of rights have been systematically violated in the name of the
"war
on drugs" but because the "war on terror" scares more people, public
support
for systematic violations of rights has more popular support.

Scott,
I'm quite sure you aren't a criminal, at least I'll give you the benefit
of the doubt. :-) So would you mind having your car, boat, home searched?
After all you have nothing to hide. Some people think there is nothing wrong
with this, after all it will catch the criminals. BTW have you exceeded the
speed limit? Well if you did, even if only by one mile per hour, aren't you
now a criminal? I'm old enough to remember a guy in Texas about 30 years ago
getting 10 years in prison for possession of one joint of weed. How big a
threat was he to society? I'd heard an phrase that says, power corrupts,
absolute power corrupts absolutely, I'm just against giving more power to
the government to intrude into our privacy. Now I understand their need to
combat terrorism but it's like a band wagon that a lot of law enforcement
officials want to get on, they look at it as a cart blanch. IMHO
Paul

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
May be, but I have yet to notice any difference in my life. But then, I'm
not a criminal.

SV

"Paul Revere" wrote



A number of rights have been systematically violated in the name of the
"war
on drugs" but because the "war on terror" scares more people, public
support
for systematic violations of rights has more popular support.

Scott,
I'm quite sure you aren't a criminal, at least I'll give you the benefit
of the doubt. :-) So would you mind having your car, boat, home searched?
After all you have nothing to hide. Some people think there is nothing wrong
with this, after all it will catch the criminals. BTW have you exceeded the
speed limit? Well if you did, even if only by one mile per hour, aren't you
now a criminal? I'm old enough to remember a guy in Texas about 30 years ago
getting 10 years in prison for possession of one joint of weed. How big a
threat was he to society? I'd heard an phrase that says, power corrupts,
absolute power corrupts absolutely, I'm just against giving more power to
the government to intrude into our privacy. Now I understand their need to
combat terrorism but it's like a band wagon that a lot of law enforcement
officials want to get on, they look at it as a cart blanch. IMHO
Paul

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
May be, but I have yet to notice any difference in my life. But then, I'm
not a criminal.

SV

"Paul Revere" wrote



A number of rights have been systematically violated in the name of the
"war
on drugs" but because the "war on terror" scares more people, public
support
for systematic violations of rights has more popular support.

Scott Vernon wrote:
May be, but I have yet to notice any difference in my life. But then, I'm
not a criminal.

SV

I do not believe I am a criminal either but apparently Mr. Ashcroft
feels that someone with my name may be. Even though I am a Delta
Medalion flyer, over the past 6 months I have been pulled out of line by
airport security for "special" search four times. Once accompanied by
two policemen. A ticket agent finally told me that my name is on the
National "No-Fly" list and that I should expect to be watched and
subjected to additional searches any time I fly.

As I understand it, there is no way to find out why I am on the list and
there is no way to get off it.

OTOH, it can have an advantage. In Seattle, because the ticket agent
called the cops before I entered the line for normal security, I
actually made it to the airplane before the other people in my group.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

My wife has had her luggage searched nearly every time she travels on
business. A TSA employee told her that it is probably because someone
else purchased her ticket for her (her employer!).

Having traveled a lot on business in the past, I'm scratching my head
over this one, because every company I've worked for has purchased the
airline tickets for business travel. Are they _really_ searching most
business travelers luggage?


Don W.


Glenn Ashmore wrote:

I do not believe I am a criminal either but apparently Mr. Ashcroft
feels that someone with my name may be. Even though I am a Delta
Medalion flyer, over the past 6 months I have been pulled out of line by
airport security for "special" search four times. Once accompanied by
two policemen. A ticket agent finally told me that my name is on the
National "No-Fly" list and that I should expect to be watched and
subjected to additional searches any time I fly.

As I understand it, there is no way to find out why I am on the list and
there is no way to get off it.

OTOH, it can have an advantage. In Seattle, because the ticket agent
called the cops before I entered the line for normal security, I
actually made it to the airplane before the other people in my group.