On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:23:16 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

My staysail has a single row of reef points. I'm considering some additional
re-enforcements and use this as my 'poormans' storm staysail. It would be
about the right size.

I figure if you are down to a storm staysail, it's getting pretty
wild. I believe that was the sail of choice in the Sydney Hobart
"weather bomb" race a few years ago. Me, I have a storm jib that's the
Dacron equivalent of elephant hide. Haven't had to fly it yet, but I
suspect it would make a fine riding sail at anchor pulled snug off the
backstay.

I also use a downhaul on my staysail but it is called a Modified Gerr
Downhaul. In addition to hauling down the luff, it also gathers the clew up
to the gathered luff. Not exactly elegant but the sail is secured on deck,
can't flog or fall overboard and I never have to leave the cockpit to do it
since the downhaul and the halyard are lead to the cock pit.

I will look that one up. Sometimes you want to get a big foresail down
in a hurry (like when it's shredding, as in what happened to me
rounding a headland and the wind jumped from seven to 22 knots,
munching my light No. 1). Windage and mess isn't as important as
getting most of it below the pulpit, and this idea, if I'm visualizing
it properly, will do that job quick 'n' dirty.

R.

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:21:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)

I have participated in three broaches at speed, one with two seconds
warning, one that took everyone by surprise, got a fair bit of water
in the boat and pulped the chute, and one "practice" one that the
skipper wisely arranged in about 15 knots of wind and pretty flat seas
so that the 2/3rds of his club crew who hadn't "wiped out" could
experience it for real and stop dreading it.

Wise skipper. He warned everyone to let fly the sheets on his command
and then broached the boat without bending a pin. It was like being in
a hot rod doing a doughnut in a parking lot.

The other two were considerably less pleasant. People got wet, hurt
and frightened, although a couple found it "cool". I learned a
spinnaker makes an effective sea anchor, just before it blows up and
that just because it's a ponderous boat doesn't mean things can't
happen mighty fast...

R.

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:21:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)

I have participated in three broaches at speed, one with two seconds
warning, one that took everyone by surprise, got a fair bit of water
in the boat and pulped the chute, and one "practice" one that the
skipper wisely arranged in about 15 knots of wind and pretty flat seas
so that the 2/3rds of his club crew who hadn't "wiped out" could
experience it for real and stop dreading it.

Wise skipper. He warned everyone to let fly the sheets on his command
and then broached the boat without bending a pin. It was like being in
a hot rod doing a doughnut in a parking lot.

The other two were considerably less pleasant. People got wet, hurt
and frightened, although a couple found it "cool". I learned a
spinnaker makes an effective sea anchor, just before it blows up and
that just because it's a ponderous boat doesn't mean things can't
happen mighty fast...

R.

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:26:27 GMT, Rich Hampel
wrote:

You can use the sock to 'partially furl' the spinnaker when gybing.
Just pull the sock down about ~30%. The spinn will keep flying but
easier to unload the pole,etc. Depending on the fullness cut of the
spinn, pulling down 30% with the sock, will sometimes let the spinn fly
free with some 'stability', at least enough to do an end-for-end
(dinghy style) pole gybe.


That is what we do since we got the sock. Just pull it down until we
feel comfortable. It doesn't make much difference in time if we pull
it part or all the way down.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:26:27 GMT, Rich Hampel
wrote:

You can use the sock to 'partially furl' the spinnaker when gybing.
Just pull the sock down about ~30%. The spinn will keep flying but
easier to unload the pole,etc. Depending on the fullness cut of the
spinn, pulling down 30% with the sock, will sometimes let the spinn fly
free with some 'stability', at least enough to do an end-for-end
(dinghy style) pole gybe.


That is what we do since we got the sock. Just pull it down until we
feel comfortable. It doesn't make much difference in time if we pull
it part or all the way down.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:40:45 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:21:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)

I have participated in three broaches at speed, one with two seconds
warning, one that took everyone by surprise, got a fair bit of water
in the boat and pulped the chute, and one "practice" one that the
skipper wisely arranged in about 15 knots of wind and pretty flat seas
so that the 2/3rds of his club crew who hadn't "wiped out" could
experience it for real and stop dreading it.

Wise skipper. He warned everyone to let fly the sheets on his command
and then broached the boat without bending a pin. It was like being in
a hot rod doing a doughnut in a parking lot.

The other two were considerably less pleasant. People got wet, hurt
and frightened, although a couple found it "cool". I learned a
spinnaker makes an effective sea anchor, just before it blows up and
that just because it's a ponderous boat doesn't mean things can't
happen mighty fast...

Maybe I should tell my story. It is enough different to be (perhaps)
instructive. Of course, nobody on this newsgroup would ever goof up as
I did. . . .

We left Boothbay one September morning going east, in a J35 we
chartered many times in the 1980s. Just north of Monhegan we set the
chute in the still-light SW. We had a glorious slide outside of
Woodenball Is, etc, during which time the wind was building. and the
boat felt really good on a broad reach. No wind instruments.

Thinking about a place to anchor for the night, I suggested we jibe
onto port and head into East Penobscot Bay. I said "just square it
straight downwind while I get the pole across" and walked forward.

It was blowing hard enough so I couldn't hear her say she coudn't go
downwind. I unhooked the pole from the mast, and WHAMMO, the
grand-daddy of wraps. The chute had a couple of turns on the aluminum
luff spar, and a big balloon above.

"We can't get this down until we undo the wrap, so lets start the
engine and turn through the wind to unwind it." Bad move. Each turn
through the wind unwound a turn sure enough, but let the bubble get
bigger.

After two turns we needed at least one more, but could no longer go
through the eye of the wind. We then realized we should have been
winding it up, not unwinding, but it was too late. We couldn't unwind
it either.

There is one place around there we can anchor in total darkness with
lots of room. Carvers Cove, at the eastern end of the Fox Is
Thorofare. It was about 10 nm away and it was getting dark.

So, with the bubble thrashing and the boat bucking, we motored north.
Usually the SW dies at night, but this was one of those SW that you
pray for when you are crossing the gulf from Cape Cod. It blew like
stink all night.

We did get the anchor set, and I hoisted genoa sheets on teh other
halyards and wound them around the sail to get it into a series of
smaller bubbles. I didn't get much sleep.

I had to call my father (via marine operator, this was before cell) on
his 85th birthday, but I didn't talk long. I said I had been thinking
of showing him some respect, but had decided to wait till his 90th.

In the morning, we saw another charter couple nearby weighing anchor
on a Bermuda 40 from the Hinckley charter fleet. They were at least 25
years youger than we were. Much too young for a B-40 IMHO.

After considerable work we got the spinnaker down. It had twisted the
luff spar so badly that we couldn't get the jib into it.

THis was a round aluminum luff spar (Hood Gemini) that worked with one
of the removable Harken furlers, which was removed at our request.
There goes the security deposit.

We still had a week of charter left, so we headed for NE Harbor, to
see if the spar could be replaced. We used main alone.

About at Stonington we flew past the red B-40.

No luff spar to be had on MDI. But, the people we had chartered from
had a J36, which we took for the remaining week.

While we were in NEH, the woman on the B40 (which had arrived a few
hours after us) talked to Barbara, whose description of all this might
differ slightly from mine.

After hearing it all, the woman said "but it was all worth it wasn't
it?" I don't think she was going to get the Hinckley again, although
they are really nice inside.

The management of the J35 was not big on maintenance. We took the boat
again the following May and when we took out the chute, it still had
the frayed tabling on one luff that was the only visible result of the
wrap. That nylon is amazingly strong. Our champagne flutes and
telephone dialer were still aboard also.

Hope everyone finds this entertaining, if not instructive.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:40:45 -0400, rhys wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:21:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

We have had a couple of humdingers on a chartered J35, a masthead boat
with a bigger chute than the fractional 36. I believe you about the
fingerprints on the winch. :-)

I have participated in three broaches at speed, one with two seconds
warning, one that took everyone by surprise, got a fair bit of water
in the boat and pulped the chute, and one "practice" one that the
skipper wisely arranged in about 15 knots of wind and pretty flat seas
so that the 2/3rds of his club crew who hadn't "wiped out" could
experience it for real and stop dreading it.

Wise skipper. He warned everyone to let fly the sheets on his command
and then broached the boat without bending a pin. It was like being in
a hot rod doing a doughnut in a parking lot.

The other two were considerably less pleasant. People got wet, hurt
and frightened, although a couple found it "cool". I learned a
spinnaker makes an effective sea anchor, just before it blows up and
that just because it's a ponderous boat doesn't mean things can't
happen mighty fast...

Maybe I should tell my story. It is enough different to be (perhaps)
instructive. Of course, nobody on this newsgroup would ever goof up as
I did. . . .

We left Boothbay one September morning going east, in a J35 we
chartered many times in the 1980s. Just north of Monhegan we set the
chute in the still-light SW. We had a glorious slide outside of
Woodenball Is, etc, during which time the wind was building. and the
boat felt really good on a broad reach. No wind instruments.

Thinking about a place to anchor for the night, I suggested we jibe
onto port and head into East Penobscot Bay. I said "just square it
straight downwind while I get the pole across" and walked forward.

It was blowing hard enough so I couldn't hear her say she coudn't go
downwind. I unhooked the pole from the mast, and WHAMMO, the
grand-daddy of wraps. The chute had a couple of turns on the aluminum
luff spar, and a big balloon above.

"We can't get this down until we undo the wrap, so lets start the
engine and turn through the wind to unwind it." Bad move. Each turn
through the wind unwound a turn sure enough, but let the bubble get
bigger.

After two turns we needed at least one more, but could no longer go
through the eye of the wind. We then realized we should have been
winding it up, not unwinding, but it was too late. We couldn't unwind
it either.

There is one place around there we can anchor in total darkness with
lots of room. Carvers Cove, at the eastern end of the Fox Is
Thorofare. It was about 10 nm away and it was getting dark.

So, with the bubble thrashing and the boat bucking, we motored north.
Usually the SW dies at night, but this was one of those SW that you
pray for when you are crossing the gulf from Cape Cod. It blew like
stink all night.

We did get the anchor set, and I hoisted genoa sheets on teh other
halyards and wound them around the sail to get it into a series of
smaller bubbles. I didn't get much sleep.

I had to call my father (via marine operator, this was before cell) on
his 85th birthday, but I didn't talk long. I said I had been thinking
of showing him some respect, but had decided to wait till his 90th.

In the morning, we saw another charter couple nearby weighing anchor
on a Bermuda 40 from the Hinckley charter fleet. They were at least 25
years youger than we were. Much too young for a B-40 IMHO.

After considerable work we got the spinnaker down. It had twisted the
luff spar so badly that we couldn't get the jib into it.

THis was a round aluminum luff spar (Hood Gemini) that worked with one
of the removable Harken furlers, which was removed at our request.
There goes the security deposit.

We still had a week of charter left, so we headed for NE Harbor, to
see if the spar could be replaced. We used main alone.

About at Stonington we flew past the red B-40.

No luff spar to be had on MDI. But, the people we had chartered from
had a J36, which we took for the remaining week.

While we were in NEH, the woman on the B40 (which had arrived a few
hours after us) talked to Barbara, whose description of all this might
differ slightly from mine.

After hearing it all, the woman said "but it was all worth it wasn't
it?" I don't think she was going to get the Hinckley again, although
they are really nice inside.

The management of the J35 was not big on maintenance. We took the boat
again the following May and when we took out the chute, it still had
the frayed tabling on one luff that was the only visible result of the
wrap. That nylon is amazingly strong. Our champagne flutes and
telephone dialer were still aboard also.

Hope everyone finds this entertaining, if not instructive.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:30:16 -0400, rhys wrote:

I figure if you are down to a storm staysail, it's getting pretty
wild. I believe that was the sail of choice in the Sydney Hobart
"weather bomb" race a few years ago. Me, I have a storm jib that's the
Dacron equivalent of elephant hide. Haven't had to fly it yet, but I
suspect it would make a fine riding sail at anchor pulled snug off the
backstay.

I
I have used one exactly that way, on a Cal 2-30. It worked like a
charm, and that boat really needed it.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:30:16 -0400, rhys wrote:

I figure if you are down to a storm staysail, it's getting pretty
wild. I believe that was the sail of choice in the Sydney Hobart
"weather bomb" race a few years ago. Me, I have a storm jib that's the
Dacron equivalent of elephant hide. Haven't had to fly it yet, but I
suspect it would make a fine riding sail at anchor pulled snug off the
backstay.

I
I have used one exactly that way, on a Cal 2-30. It worked like a
charm, and that boat really needed it.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:46:14 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:


I
I have used one exactly that way, on a Cal 2-30. It worked like a
charm, and that boat really needed it.

I am glad to hear it. I have heard of sailmakers (who know what the
hell you are talking about) cutting special riding sails, but it
struck me that the dimensions and beefiness were very close to a sail
I already carry, and like most storm sails, is practically still new.

R.