I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

--
Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:01:09 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

I've read a few books by Don Street and have a couple sailing videos of
his
as well. I respect his knowledge while I consider him a bit excentric.
His
boats and sailing gear and methods always seem well on to the "Salty
Side"
of the scale. One thing for sure, "Don doesn't have to explain" why he
does
the things he does when it comes to onboard routines". At least that's
the
impression I get..

I have watched his sailing video of one of his Atlantic crossing on "Isle
Aire" with a crew that seemed to worship him and his ways.

One thing from that video that leaves me with a question that I haven't
been
able to resolve.

Don, goes on a rant about someone putting a figure "8" Stopper Knot in
the
end of a sheet. Something I have been doing for 40 years of sailing. To
me,
it keeps the lazy sheet from being pulled through the sheet lead block.
Anyway, if there was a reason for "not" putting a Stopper Knot in the
sheet
end, it must have been edited out of the footage I have seen and no where
in
his books does he mentions a reason (that I can recall).

How about it, can anyone persuade me not to put a Stopper Knot in my
sheets??

(You see, I'm getting old and grouchy to.)

Also old and grouchy, I do put stoppers on the jib sheets, but never
on the spinnaker sheets/guys.

It may be necessary in extremis to let the spinnaker fly, but the jib
can be released without losing the end of the sheet.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC
J36 Gjo/a


"Wanting to meet a writer because you like his work is like wanting to
meet a duck because you like pate."
Margaret Atwood

Putting stopper knots in spinnaker sheets is very bad practice.
If you ever broach and need to compleatly and instantly let the sheets
fly ..... you wind up on your side or worse and I guarantee that you
will have NO time to cut one of the sheets.
If it gets 'that bad' that the spinnaker is held only by its halyard
(and sheets free) you can always grab one of the free sheet ends and
let the halyard fly..... and save the boat.




In article
ble.rogers.com,
DARat wrote:

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

Putting stopper knots in spinnaker sheets is very bad practice.
If you ever broach and need to compleatly and instantly let the sheets
fly ..... you wind up on your side or worse and I guarantee that you
will have NO time to cut one of the sheets.
If it gets 'that bad' that the spinnaker is held only by its halyard
(and sheets free) you can always grab one of the free sheet ends and
let the halyard fly..... and save the boat.




In article
ble.rogers.com,
DARat wrote:

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

Still not buying it...I've broached more than once (with and without
spinnaker up) while pushing a littler harder
than we should while racing, I'll agree not much fun but there's plenty of
time to do a lot of things. I guess
having a crew that you can trust to spill the halyard when things get really
out of hand helps.

People I've seen in trouble are those with the spin flying straight out at
the top of the mast with the lines ahead of
that. They had a hell of a time trying to get their spin down...I guess if
there's no stopper not in the halyard,
the whole thing can run free and you can go find it later...

I'll give you no stopper in the spin halyard. Maybe I'll re-think the
stopper knot...

Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Putting stopper knots in spinnaker sheets is very bad practice.
If you ever broach and need to compleatly and instantly let the sheets
fly ..... you wind up on your side or worse and I guarantee that you
will have NO time to cut one of the sheets.
If it gets 'that bad' that the spinnaker is held only by its halyard
(and sheets free) you can always grab one of the free sheet ends and
let the halyard fly..... and save the boat.




In article
ble.rogers.com,
DARat wrote:

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as
you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the
sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of
your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from
the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

Still not buying it...I've broached more than once (with and without
spinnaker up) while pushing a littler harder
than we should while racing, I'll agree not much fun but there's plenty of
time to do a lot of things. I guess
having a crew that you can trust to spill the halyard when things get really
out of hand helps.

People I've seen in trouble are those with the spin flying straight out at
the top of the mast with the lines ahead of
that. They had a hell of a time trying to get their spin down...I guess if
there's no stopper not in the halyard,
the whole thing can run free and you can go find it later...

I'll give you no stopper in the spin halyard. Maybe I'll re-think the
stopper knot...

Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Putting stopper knots in spinnaker sheets is very bad practice.
If you ever broach and need to compleatly and instantly let the sheets
fly ..... you wind up on your side or worse and I guarantee that you
will have NO time to cut one of the sheets.
If it gets 'that bad' that the spinnaker is held only by its halyard
(and sheets free) you can always grab one of the free sheet ends and
let the halyard fly..... and save the boat.




In article
ble.rogers.com,
DARat wrote:

I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as
you
may wish to let
them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the
sheets
run out on
a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of
your
mast....or
at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than
stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to
release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from
the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

I have sort of followed this thread from the begining of the month.
Apart from one entry about stopper knots jamming in natural fiberlines
that get wet. There has been no argument against them with which I agree.

If you are racing, under most conditions you are effectively short
handed (or at least there is something more important to do that manage
a now lazy sheet). The one good way to douse a spinnaker is to start by
letting the halyard run. The only attention it should need then is to
be sure it doesn't foul. This is one place where you want a stopper but
not at the end because it may actually slide on a dacron halyard, so set
it a foot or so up from the end. The sheets should be two boats long,
so even letting it run during a douse you should not get to the stopper.
No stopper means you are willing to let the halyard go up the mast or
the sheet run around (it now has to be handled by the chute retriever
and will end up wet over move of its length as it got pulled clear as
soon as it touched the water) and now will have to be rerigged for the
next leg. I see no advantage here.

If you are cruising, even if you get behind the situation, I can see no
good reason to let a sheet or a halyard run free to clear. If things
need to be dealt that fast, you maybe should be letting halyards run.
If anything runs clear of its leads, you have now lost any opportunity
you may have had to regain control of the situation any time soon.

This is just the result of fifty plus years a waterman and competitive
sailor aboard things betweent Dyer Midgets to a 90ton fishing schooner
(powered vessle time not included in this discussion).

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor





DARat wrote:
I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

I have sort of followed this thread from the begining of the month.
Apart from one entry about stopper knots jamming in natural fiberlines
that get wet. There has been no argument against them with which I agree.

If you are racing, under most conditions you are effectively short
handed (or at least there is something more important to do that manage
a now lazy sheet). The one good way to douse a spinnaker is to start by
letting the halyard run. The only attention it should need then is to
be sure it doesn't foul. This is one place where you want a stopper but
not at the end because it may actually slide on a dacron halyard, so set
it a foot or so up from the end. The sheets should be two boats long,
so even letting it run during a douse you should not get to the stopper.
No stopper means you are willing to let the halyard go up the mast or
the sheet run around (it now has to be handled by the chute retriever
and will end up wet over move of its length as it got pulled clear as
soon as it touched the water) and now will have to be rerigged for the
next leg. I see no advantage here.

If you are cruising, even if you get behind the situation, I can see no
good reason to let a sheet or a halyard run free to clear. If things
need to be dealt that fast, you maybe should be letting halyards run.
If anything runs clear of its leads, you have now lost any opportunity
you may have had to regain control of the situation any time soon.

This is just the result of fifty plus years a waterman and competitive
sailor aboard things betweent Dyer Midgets to a 90ton fishing schooner
(powered vessle time not included in this discussion).

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor





DARat wrote:
I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as you
may wish to let them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that with if the sheets
run out on a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from the top of your
mast....or at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that being any
better than stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with a bit of
foresight to release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

I'll agree with your statements. In my second post, I was considering
allowing the
halyard to run completely out if things just got toasted. But in reading
your post,
I agree that the stopper knot shouldn't be a problem even in the halyard,
since it
has to be long enough to completely depower the spin anyway.

Good post...Thanks!

--
Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
I have sort of followed this thread from the begining of the month.
Apart from one entry about stopper knots jamming in natural fiberlines
that get wet. There has been no argument against them with which I agree.

If you are racing, under most conditions you are effectively short
handed (or at least there is something more important to do that manage
a now lazy sheet). The one good way to douse a spinnaker is to start by
letting the halyard run. The only attention it should need then is to
be sure it doesn't foul. This is one place where you want a stopper but
not at the end because it may actually slide on a dacron halyard, so set
it a foot or so up from the end. The sheets should be two boats long,
so even letting it run during a douse you should not get to the stopper.
No stopper means you are willing to let the halyard go up the mast or
the sheet run around (it now has to be handled by the chute retriever
and will end up wet over move of its length as it got pulled clear as
soon as it touched the water) and now will have to be rerigged for the
next leg. I see no advantage here.

If you are cruising, even if you get behind the situation, I can see no
good reason to let a sheet or a halyard run free to clear. If things
need to be dealt that fast, you maybe should be letting halyards run.
If anything runs clear of its leads, you have now lost any opportunity
you may have had to regain control of the situation any time soon.

This is just the result of fifty plus years a waterman and competitive
sailor aboard things betweent Dyer Midgets to a 90ton fishing schooner
(powered vessle time not included in this discussion).

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor





DARat wrote:
I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as
you
may wish to let them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that
with if the sheets
run out on a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from
the top of your
mast....or at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that
being any
better than stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with
a bit of
foresight to release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the
spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?

I'll agree with your statements. In my second post, I was considering
allowing the
halyard to run completely out if things just got toasted. But in reading
your post,
I agree that the stopper knot shouldn't be a problem even in the halyard,
since it
has to be long enough to completely depower the spin anyway.

Good post...Thanks!

--
Cheers,
Jeffrey Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
I have sort of followed this thread from the begining of the month.
Apart from one entry about stopper knots jamming in natural fiberlines
that get wet. There has been no argument against them with which I agree.

If you are racing, under most conditions you are effectively short
handed (or at least there is something more important to do that manage
a now lazy sheet). The one good way to douse a spinnaker is to start by
letting the halyard run. The only attention it should need then is to
be sure it doesn't foul. This is one place where you want a stopper but
not at the end because it may actually slide on a dacron halyard, so set
it a foot or so up from the end. The sheets should be two boats long,
so even letting it run during a douse you should not get to the stopper.
No stopper means you are willing to let the halyard go up the mast or
the sheet run around (it now has to be handled by the chute retriever
and will end up wet over move of its length as it got pulled clear as
soon as it touched the water) and now will have to be rerigged for the
next leg. I see no advantage here.

If you are cruising, even if you get behind the situation, I can see no
good reason to let a sheet or a halyard run free to clear. If things
need to be dealt that fast, you maybe should be letting halyards run.
If anything runs clear of its leads, you have now lost any opportunity
you may have had to regain control of the situation any time soon.

This is just the result of fifty plus years a waterman and competitive
sailor aboard things betweent Dyer Midgets to a 90ton fishing schooner
(powered vessle time not included in this discussion).

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor





DARat wrote:
I'm having a hard time with no stopper knots in spinnaker sheets/guys as
you
may wish to let them fly "presumably" in emergency. I'll counter that
with if the sheets
run out on a spinnaker then you've got a rather large flag flying from
the top of your
mast....or at least 3/4 if your fractional rigged. I can't imagine that
being any
better than stopped sheets run all the way out, and having someone with
a bit of
foresight to release the halyard...at least that way you can recover the
spin from the
bottom.

If things it too far beyond that, you can always cut away the lines...

Comments?