On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:06:49 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 03:01:40 +0000, Larry wrote:

Herodotus wrote in
m:

http://www.isotherm.com/en/product?f...1254FirefoxHTM
LShellOpenCommand

I've got a fridge in my truck about the size of a Cruise 85 running off the
shop inverter. It's made in Korea and cost $US89 from Home Depot on sale
in January of '06. What attracted me was the can dispensing rack in the
door. Has a tiny freezer that's near worthless but could keep some meat
solid. Ice trays freeze really fast.

What the hell makes a BOAT fridge the same size cost 10 times the price,
the $60 inverter screwed into the case?

What a rip.....boat crap!

Stop by. I have another one in the house....holding the Heineken's minikeg
to just the right temperature, right next to the computer desk....(c;

Larry, Larry, you just don;t understand. You see cheap Korean fridges
are sold by some bloke at Home Depot while proper YACHTING gear is
sold by gentlemen wearing white pants and those funny shoes with all
the squiggly cuts in the soles.

Obviously anything sold by a white pants salesman has got to be the
correct type of thing that a fellow would want on his boat whereas one
would rather be dead then to have the chaps know that he had a (Ug!)
Home Depot device aboard.

Besides, we were talking about built in fridges :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Larry, Bruce,

Gentlemen (My God! I have to lie sometimes to get what i want)

It does seem to me to be a lot of money to pay for the systems that
are sold. The problem is that I have a great wind generator (another
that can be added if necessary) an 80 watt solar panel (and will get
another) as well as a smart charge system for my 120 AMP alternator.

I have 4 Trojan 6 volt batteries in parallel and series - 440 Amp
hours. If necessary I could get another 2 of these but at the moment
don't think I need them.

I really want a system that will work well with minimal charging of
`the batteries by the alternator. I don't want one that I have to run
the motor for an hour each day just to run a fridge. I have noticed
that often the wind generator tops up the batteries and then feathers.
I hate to see potential charging going to waste especially if the wind
and sun fizzle out later in the day.

I am normally seldom moored to a dock and thus shore electricity is
not a factor. (BTW Herodotus isn't tethered either - in case either of
you make a smart arsed comment regarding my English useage).

The idea of a holding plate is that I could utilise periods of greater
charge whereas a conventional fridge runs off and on over the entire
day.

I do wonder why these systems are so expensive though. I can think of
a lot of things I could do with the dollars.

Do you know if I can just buy the components separately or is there
something wrong with my logic?

BTW Bruce, I am due in KL on next Thursday night Inshahallah. Are you
still at Phuket? Apart from Penang, I am also visiting KL (Pelabuhan
Klang), Johor Baru, Singapore and Karimun and Medan in Sumatera. I
would love to make time to meet with you If I can. Don't worry. I
shall speak and listen slowly and can understand dull, boring, tedious
Southern drawl if required.

I do appreciate both of your advice and your help.

regards
Peter

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:14:20 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:06:49 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 03:01:40 +0000, Larry wrote:

Herodotus wrote in
:

http://www.isotherm.com/en/product?f...1254FirefoxHTM
LShellOpenCommand

I've got a fridge in my truck about the size of a Cruise 85 running off the
shop inverter. It's made in Korea and cost $US89 from Home Depot on sale
in January of '06. What attracted me was the can dispensing rack in the
door. Has a tiny freezer that's near worthless but could keep some meat
solid. Ice trays freeze really fast.

What the hell makes a BOAT fridge the same size cost 10 times the price,
the $60 inverter screwed into the case?

What a rip.....boat crap!

Stop by. I have another one in the house....holding the Heineken's minikeg
to just the right temperature, right next to the computer desk....(c;

Larry, Larry, you just don;t understand. You see cheap Korean fridges
are sold by some bloke at Home Depot while proper YACHTING gear is
sold by gentlemen wearing white pants and those funny shoes with all
the squiggly cuts in the soles.

Obviously anything sold by a white pants salesman has got to be the
correct type of thing that a fellow would want on his boat whereas one
would rather be dead then to have the chaps know that he had a (Ug!)
Home Depot device aboard.

Besides, we were talking about built in fridges :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Larry, Bruce,

Gentlemen (My God! I have to lie sometimes to get what i want)

It does seem to me to be a lot of money to pay for the systems that
are sold. The problem is that I have a great wind generator (another
that can be added if necessary) an 80 watt solar panel (and will get
another) as well as a smart charge system for my 120 AMP alternator.

I have 4 Trojan 6 volt batteries in parallel and series - 440 Amp
hours. If necessary I could get another 2 of these but at the moment
don't think I need them.

I really want a system that will work well with minimal charging of
`the batteries by the alternator. I don't want one that I have to run
the motor for an hour each day just to run a fridge. I have noticed
that often the wind generator tops up the batteries and then feathers.
I hate to see potential charging going to waste especially if the wind
and sun fizzle out later in the day.

Well, first of all you need a "Larry Lesson" on how batteries charge
as your 110 amp alternator is just a waste of money.

Secondly, I have three 42.7 watt, old, solar panels and, God willing
the sun shines every day, they will keep MY 440 AH battery bank
charged and run my old 12 volt built in fridge. (providing I don't
turn on a light very often).

If you are going to hang about in Oz you may have enough wind to make
your wind generator useful but if you move up to Pinang they don't
work as well :-) Apparently they become indolent once they arrive in
Malaysia.

Now, there is a guy down the jetty that I just talked to, has a new
eutectic, built in, powered by a 12/220 volt compressor and tells me
that if the fridge is operated correctly (runs all the time; keep ice
on the plate; keep the fridge full; etc.) he gets buy with two solar
panels. I will get some details, panels, fridge model, etc., and let
you know as it sounds like what you want.

I am normally seldom moored to a dock and thus shore electricity is
not a factor. (BTW Herodotus isn't tethered either - in case either of
you make a smart arsed comment regarding my English useage).

What smartass? Moored - "hitched to a dock" We usually say "tied up"
where I come from, though.

The idea of a holding plate is that I could utilise periods of greater
charge whereas a conventional fridge runs off and on over the entire
day.

I do wonder why these systems are so expensive though. I can think of
a lot of things I could do with the dollars.

Now, now. To quote John D. Rockefeller, "If you have to ask how much
you can't afford one" :-)


Do you know if I can just buy the components separately or is there
something wrong with my logic?

If you get into seriously thinking of building a system I can probably
pick Stephan's brains for what, where and how much. It probably
wouldn't be cost effective to have him build the system as he is
oriented toward the high end of the market but he is a pretty friendly
guy and would probably tell me where he gets parts.

If you are thinking of building your own system beg, borrow or steal a
copy of the book by Nigal Calder "Refrigeration for Pleasure Boats:
Installation, Maintenance and Repair" as it has all the calculations
to plan insulation thickness, plate size, heat exchanger specs -
everything you wanted to know and more. Well worth the price.

BTW Bruce, I am due in KL on next Thursday night Inshahallah. Are you
still at Phuket? Apart from Penang, I am also visiting KL (Pelabuhan
Klang), Johor Baru, Singapore and Karimun and Medan in Sumatera. I
would love to make time to meet with you If I can. Don't worry. I
shall speak and listen slowly and can understand dull, boring, tedious
Southern drawl if required.

Can't make it this trip. I'm just out of the Yard and haven't even
been able to scrape the yard dirt off because it has been raining so
hard. As soon as I get that done I'm off to Bangkok for a couple of
weeks to my wife.

Have to be next trip.

I do appreciate both of your advice and your help.

regards
Peter

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Well, first of all you need a "Larry Lesson" on how batteries charge
as your 110 amp alternator is just a waste of money.



No, no! Everyone knows a boat battery can be charged in 3 minutes if you
buy a big enough alternator!

Don't let logic, battery chemistry and me upset it.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:42:40 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Well, first of all you need a "Larry Lesson" on how batteries charge
as your 110 amp alternator is just a waste of money.



No, no! Everyone knows a boat battery can be charged in 3 minutes if you
buy a big enough alternator!

Don't let logic, battery chemistry and me upset it.

I had a 1988 mustang ragtop that had about ten interior lights and a
small battery. If you left a door slightly ajar, the battery would be
completely, 0 volts, dead in 45 minutes or so. A ten amp charger would
put in enough juice to start it in ten seconds. Then comes the charge
from zero at the maximum rate. Needless to say, that battery didn't
last long.

Casady

On Jul 18, 8:42*am, Larry wrote:
Bruce in Bangkok wrote :

Well, first of all you need a "Larry Lesson" on how batteries charge
as your 110 amp alternator is just a waste of money.

No, no! *Everyone knows a boat battery can be charged in 3 minutes if you
buy a big enough alternator!

Don't let logic, battery chemistry and me upset it.

In practice high output alternators make a big difference getting up
to about 80% charge. That can be very, very useful. It may be that
you have some logic and battery chemistry in your text books but I
live on my boat and go voyaging a bit. High output alternators are a
good thing.

Bummer about the Smart Car. AFIK, they aren't importing the diesel
version because in CA you can't buy diesel cars w/less than 7k miles
on them. As they say the road to hell is paved with good
intentions... But, what you really want is a diesel plug in
hybrid...

-- Tom.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:36:32 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 18, 8:42*am, Larry wrote:
Bruce in Bangkok wrote :

Well, first of all you need a "Larry Lesson" on how batteries charge
as your 110 amp alternator is just a waste of money.

No, no! *Everyone knows a boat battery can be charged in 3 minutes if you
buy a big enough alternator!

Don't let logic, battery chemistry and me upset it.

In practice high output alternators make a big difference getting up
to about 80% charge. That can be very, very useful. It may be that
you have some logic and battery chemistry in your text books but I
live on my boat and go voyaging a bit. High output alternators are a
good thing.

So do Larry, Peter and myself. (Well, larry doesn't live on one, he
just voyages).

Frankly, in my experience a 110 amp alternator and a 440 A.H. battery
bank is overkill,


Bummer about the Smart Car. AFIK, they aren't importing the diesel
version because in CA you can't buy diesel cars w/less than 7k miles
on them. As they say the road to hell is paved with good
intentions... But, what you really want is a diesel plug in
hybrid...

-- Tom.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Jul 18, 4:46*pm, Bruce in Bangkok
...
In practice high output alternators make a big difference getting up
to about 80% charge. *That can be very, very useful. *It may be that
you have some logic and battery chemistry in your text books but I
live on my boat and go voyaging a bit. *High output alternators are a
good thing.

So do Larry, Peter and myself. (Well, larry doesn't live on one, he
just voyages).

Frankly, in my experience a 110 amp alternator and a 440 A.H. battery
bank is overkill,
...

Well, I've got two 110 amp alternators on a 510 AH bank and I think
that's about right. My experience is that I can bulk my batteries
quickly with my 110's. Sometimes I top them off with solar and
sometimes I work them in the 80%-50% range. Every week or so they get
a full charge and that does take a long time, but still less time than
it would with a 60 amp unit. YMMV.

-- Tom.

" wrote in news:7f8aa6de-0499-4d2c-
:

Well, I've got two 110 amp alternators on a 510 AH bank and I think
that's about right. My experience is that I can bulk my batteries
quickly with my 110's. Sometimes I top them off with solar and
sometimes I work them in the 80%-50% range. Every week or so they get
a full charge and that does take a long time, but still less time than
it would with a 60 amp unit. YMMV.

-- Tom.



Tom, how are you measuring these percentages? Are you using a hydrometer?

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:18:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 18, 4:46*pm, Bruce in Bangkok
...
In practice high output alternators make a big difference getting up
to about 80% charge. *That can be very, very useful. *It may be that
you have some logic and battery chemistry in your text books but I
live on my boat and go voyaging a bit. *High output alternators are a
good thing.

So do Larry, Peter and myself. (Well, larry doesn't live on one, he
just voyages).

Frankly, in my experience a 110 amp alternator and a 440 A.H. battery
bank is overkill,
...

Well, I've got two 110 amp alternators on a 510 AH bank and I think
that's about right. My experience is that I can bulk my batteries
quickly with my 110's. Sometimes I top them off with solar and
sometimes I work them in the 80%-50% range. Every week or so they get
a full charge and that does take a long time, but still less time than
it would with a 60 amp unit. YMMV.

-- Tom.


During your bulk charging stage what voltage are your batteries
reading and how many amps are you charging at?


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Frankly, in my experience a 110 amp alternator and a 440 A.H. battery
bank is overkill,



The only time it wouldn't be is if you have some heavy loads running while
trying to recharge, like a big fridge trying to freeze a coldplate off
12VDC or running the microwave off the inverter while the diesel is
running, etc.

110A at 14V is only 1540 watts and the microwave would eat a thousand of
that. A big inverter loaded down can consume the whole 110A output, frying
the intermittent duty alternator if that's what it is, and most of them are
I found out with Skip's purchase here.

Until the charging current drops off the amount you want to use, and only
if the alternator is continuous or "heavy duty" rated, can you run loads
off it of any amount.....