Someone on the dock asked me if they needed a commercial radio operator's
license to operate their boat radio stations, today. I hadn't looked up
any changes to the regs in a while so did a little FCC webpage browsing
to find him the correct answer. Way too little attention is paid to boat
owner's radio licenses, because they think that the FCC doesn't care, now
that they don't have a license for their VHF Marine any more. That is
just wrong....

Who needs an OPERATOR's license:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/wncol.html

"Ship radio stations if:

* the vessel carries more than six passengers for hire; or
* the radio operates on medium or high frequencies; or
* the ship sails to foreign ports; or
* the ship is larger than 300 gross tons and is required to carry a
radio station for safety purposes."

If you have a Ship Radio License so you can operate outside the USA or
inside the USA on HF/SSB/GMDSS....you need one for yourself and every
operator aboard. The only people who don't need OPERATOR licenses are
people talking on marine VHF INSIDE the borders of the USA. ANYONE
talking on HF/SSB, operating any kind of GMDSS (including DSC on VHF),
MUST be licensed!

"Radio Maintenance and Repair

You need a commercial radio operator license to repair and maintain the
following:
* All ship radio and radar stations.
* All coast stations.
* All hand carried units used to communicate with ships and coast
stations on marine frequencies."

You STILL must have a GROL (General Radio Operator's License) to work on
ship radios and radar stations, including right down to the VHF walkies.

Now, most SSB operators have had the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's
Permit (no test, just registration to bring you under the FCC's guns) for
many years:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/rp.html
"They can also operate marine radiotelephone stations aboard pleasure
craft (other than those carrying more than six passengers for hire on the
Great Lakes or bays or tidewaters or in the open sea) when operator
licensing is required. An RP is NOT needed to operate the following:

* a voluntarily equipped ship or aircraft station (including a CAP
station) which operates only on VHF frequencies and does not make foreign
voyages or flights."

The keyword here is RADIOTELEPHONE....the voice part of your SSB
anywhere...and your VHF offshore. That keyword should now say ONLY
Radiotelephone, because that's what it covers....ONLY Radiotelephone.

.....but, new radios have selective calling DSC, part of GMDSS on Channel
70! This requires a GMDSS OPERATOR's LICENSE, which DOES have a test!

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/rg.html
Now, this is the Restricted (RG) GMDSS operator's license for VHF ONLY IF
YOU NEVER GO MORE THAN 20 MILES OFFSHORE. You must pass elements 1 and
7R of the GROL in front of a volunteer examiner, now available through
many ham radio testing facilities as well as maritime schools. This is a
REQUIREMENT for ALL GMDSS-equipped vessels. How many DSC-equipped boats
have a licensed operator? I'm guessing that number is damned near ZERO
at any marina....hmm....

If you go OFFSHORE more than 20 miles, you must get a full GMDSS Radio
Operator's License, swapping the much harder 100 question element 7 for
the 7R of the Restricted. You also need this more comprehensive license
if you operate GMDSS, including DSC, on an HF radio with a Ship License,
even inside the good 'ol USA. Restricted Radio Telephone Operator's
license does NOT COVER operating GMDSS anything!

Even our crusty ol' 1st Phone and CW commercial ticket holders must pass
element 7 to operate GMDSS, no matter how many decades they've been
keeping those tubes warm in the fishing boats. They already passed
element 1....long ago.

If they intend to repair and adjust GMDSS stations, they must also pass
element 9, the GMDSS Maintainer's test to add to their elements 1 and 3
their GROL is credited with. Newbies will need 1,3,7 and 9 tests.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/dm.html

I'm not sure how this all applies to the millions of illegal Mexicans
strewn across America, any more. FCC says:
" To qualify, you must:
* be a legal resident of (or otherwise eligible for employment in) the
United States; and
* be able to receive and transmit spoken messages in English; and...."

....but they don't seem to enforce the immigration laws any more with the
impending North American Union tearing apart our nation, which may make
all this moot because the FCC and USCG may no longer exist in the NAU!

All the Mexicans around here seem to be "otherwise eligible for
employment in) the United States" by default. They just have to show up
out of nowhere.....

Well, that's what the FCC website says, straight from the horse's mouth.
USCG has nothing to do with what license you need to operate the RADIOS.

On May 24, 3:59 pm, Larry wrote:
....
The keyword here is RADIOTELEPHONE....the voice part of your SSB
anywhere...and your VHF offshore. That keyword should now say ONLY
Radiotelephone, because that's what it covers....ONLY Radiotelephone.
....

Well, I've got a station license and a RRO and a MRO. I didn't take
any DSC elements for the MRO (none were offered). I don't have a DSC
radio but would it be illegal for me to use one? Also, sailmail (tm)
has always asserted that a station license and a RRO are all you need
to operate HF PACTOR in international or US waters. Are they wrong?

-- Tom.

In article
,
" wrote:

On May 24, 3:59 pm, Larry wrote:
...
The keyword here is RADIOTELEPHONE....the voice part of your SSB
anywhere...and your VHF offshore. That keyword should now say ONLY
Radiotelephone, because that's what it covers....ONLY Radiotelephone.
...

Well, I've got a station license and a RRO and a MRO. I didn't take
any DSC elements for the MRO (none were offered). I don't have a DSC
radio but would it be illegal for me to use one? Also, sailmail (tm)
has always asserted that a station license and a RRO are all you need
to operate HF PACTOR in international or US waters. Are they wrong?

-- Tom.

I suspect that operating a SailMail Pactor Station without at least a
Marine Radio Operators Permit would be a violation as per 80.165.
The above transmissions would come under Ship Narrowband Direct-printing
Telegraph.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

On May 25, 8:47 am, Bruce in alaska wrote:
... I suspect that operating a SailMail Pactor Station without at least a
Marine Radio Operators Permit would be a violation as per 80.165.
The above transmissions would come under Ship Narrowband Direct-printing
Telegraph. ...

Interesting. I just looked over the sailmail primer again and it is
specific. US citizens need copies of the shore station licenses plus
a ship's station license and a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's
Permit. As I recall it took them some time to get the station
licenses. I wonder if they got some kind of waiver...

-- Tom.

" wrote in news:41bc805f-b4f5-4038-
:

On May 25, 8:47 am, Bruce in alaska wrote:
... I suspect that operating a SailMail Pactor Station without at least a
Marine Radio Operators Permit would be a violation as per 80.165.
The above transmissions would come under Ship Narrowband Direct-printing
Telegraph. ...

Interesting. I just looked over the sailmail primer again and it is
specific. US citizens need copies of the shore station licenses plus
a ship's station license and a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's
Permit. As I recall it took them some time to get the station
licenses. I wonder if they got some kind of waiver...

-- Tom.


As there's no mention of these ASCII or other data modes in any of the
FCC's new pages of operator requirements, I think on a pleasure boat,
Restricted is plenty....as is your MR license.

I didn't recognize your reference to MRO...sorry. That's called MR now....

GMDSS has turned the Commercial licenses on their ears. GROL is now called
PG, but unless you work on aircraft or marine radios of high power, the
other services aren't licensing the technicians any more, thanks mostly to
the huge broadcast corporations looking to reduce labor costs. Anybody can
operate a 25 megawatt UHF TV transmitter, now....
......if he survives that first trip behind the panel...(c;

" wrote in news:41bc805f-b4f5-4038-
:

On May 25, 8:47 am, Bruce in alaska wrote:
... I suspect that operating a SailMail Pactor Station without at least
a
Marine Radio Operators Permit would be a violation as per 80.165.
The above transmissions would come under Ship Narrowband Direct-
printing
Telegraph. ...

Interesting. I just looked over the sailmail primer again and it is
specific. US citizens need copies of the shore station licenses plus
a ship's station license and a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's
Permit. As I recall it took them some time to get the station
licenses. I wonder if they got some kind of waiver...

-- Tom.


http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr80.165.pdf

80.165 direct printing telegraph (which sounds like 1935) says license is
MP. I guess MP is the MR license, now, your "MRO". The telegraph
licenses are T-3, T-2, T-1 in the old rules here.

The rules show the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit as RP on
this list. From that reference point, we can assume every sailor with an
RP is in violation of 80.165 if he uses Sailmail IF FCC considers
Sailmail and Pactor "Ship Direct Printing Telegraph" from the 1935
terminology of a Teletype machine. (Model 15? I had one of those!)

FCC needs to join the 21st Century and rewrite the 1935 parts of these
rules....same as amateur radio.

Bruce in alaska wrote in news:fast-
:

In article
,
" wrote:

On May 24, 3:59 pm, Larry wrote:
...
The keyword here is RADIOTELEPHONE....the voice part of your SSB
anywhere...and your VHF offshore. That keyword should now say ONLY
Radiotelephone, because that's what it covers....ONLY
Radiotelephone.
...

Well, I've got a station license and a RRO and a MRO. I didn't take
any DSC elements for the MRO (none were offered). I don't have a DSC
radio but would it be illegal for me to use one? Also, sailmail (tm)
has always asserted that a station license and a RRO are all you need
to operate HF PACTOR in international or US waters. Are they wrong?

-- Tom.

I suspect that operating a SailMail Pactor Station without at least a
Marine Radio Operators Permit would be a violation as per 80.165.
The above transmissions would come under Ship Narrowband Direct-
printing
Telegraph.


Excellent point. Too bad no mention of direct printing telegraph is made
for MROP:

"MPs are required to operate radiotelephone stations aboard certain
vessels that sail the Great Lakes. They are also required to operate
radiotelephone stations aboard vessels of more than 300 gross tons and
vessels which carry more than six passengers for hire in the open sea or
any tidewater area of the United States. They are also required to
operate certain aviation radiotelephone stations and certain coast
radiotelephone stations."

MP licenses are ONLY RADIOTELEPHONE....no telegraph.

However....there is NO REFERENCES to any telegraph requirement for data
systems, except the GMDSS system. The direct printing telegraph was for
MORSE, not ASCII, right? His MR license probably covers it, but FCC's
pages don't say anything about Pactor, SITOR, etc. Those were the old
days. The rules seem to have slackened....and changed when the FCC was
forced to deal with GMDSS. After that, it seems to have amnesia about
SITOR...

In article ,
Larry wrote:

The direct printing telegraph was for
MORSE, not ASCII, right?

Actually No, it was Baudot, and NOT Morse. Sitor was also considered
NBDP, under the rules, before GMDSS, and was incorporated into GMDSS by
default. I suspect the FCC just lumped all Digital Modes into the GMDSS
Label, and forgot to deal with the older NBDP stuff. I guess I should
call some friends back at HQ, and ask where all this stands today, but
I suspect that they really will not want to go "On the Record" with
any answers at this point.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Bruce in alaska wrote in news:fast-
:

Actually No, it was Baudot, and NOT Morse. Sitor was also considered
NBDP, under the rules, before GMDSS, and was incorporated into GMDSS by
default. I suspect the FCC just lumped all Digital Modes into the GMDSS
Label, and forgot to deal with the older NBDP stuff. I guess I should
call some friends back at HQ, and ask where all this stands today, but
I suspect that they really will not want to go "On the Record" with
any answers at this point.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply



Yes, Baudot. I suppose you also have your share of being bitten by the
loop 110VDC current....hee hee...(c;

60 ma has always put me on my knees....

I still have some reperf tapes around here that are Playboy Vargas Girls
for RTTY. I was very active on RTTY on 20 meter ham radio for years
after Wayne Green W2NSD/1 finally got around the damned ARRL old farts
and got FCC to let us use Baudot at 60 wpm ONLY.

By the way, I was the FIRST ham radio ASCII station on the air 15 seconds
before midnight the day it became legal to transmit ASCII (110 baud)
before we got into packet radio. Our little ASCII misfits DARED venture
up into the 14.100-14.150 "Canadian Phone Band", of the day, on 14.105
Mhz where we had one station in each call area calling CQ ASCII CQ ASCII
for 75 seconds for that first legal minute, a bit of ham radio history.
The packet stations STILL occupy the frequencies above 14.100 Mhz we
blazed a trail into dispite heavy Canadian jamming from irate phone
stations. ARRL used to discourage US hams from using CW or RTTY above
14.100, the only modes we were allowed there. For years, "Network 105"
operated a packet network of 24/7 stations on 14.105 I was also involved
in supporting. We had lots of Canadians on freq by that time like
VE1AMA, Burt who I think is dead, now.

Today you need 10 watts on PSK31 ultra narrow band phase shift keying 31
Hz shift to talk across the planet. Too bad more boat hams aren't on it.
PSK uses the SSB bandwidth carrier freq of 14.070 or 7.070 or 3.570 on
LSB rigs fed two tones from the computer sound card. No extra "boxes"
hams have been paying through the nose for like Pactor, are necessary.
It's all software based and free. WinWarbler will copy 3 PSK stations
simultaneously on an SSB receiver anywhere inside its 3Khz IF
bandwidth...really an incredible feat.

I miss getting zapped. My Model 28 had a short in a selector magnet that
made the frame of the ungrounded machine hot...(c;

" wrote in news:d042ef11-fdaa-43d3-
:

On May 24, 3:59 pm, Larry wrote:
...
The keyword here is RADIOTELEPHONE....the voice part of your SSB
anywhere...and your VHF offshore. That keyword should now say ONLY
Radiotelephone, because that's what it covers....ONLY Radiotelephone.
...

Well, I've got a station license and a RRO and a MRO. I didn't take
any DSC elements for the MRO (none were offered). I don't have a DSC
radio but would it be illegal for me to use one? Also, sailmail (tm)
has always asserted that a station license and a RRO are all you need
to operate HF PACTOR in international or US waters. Are they wrong?

-- Tom.


The FCC doesn't give a **** what CG license, if any, you hold. That is
NOT an FCC license, which is required to operate FCC-jurisdiction
equipment, except for the VHF FM inside the USA, license free.

If you operate DSC or any part of the GMDSS system, you are required to
stand for testing at the FCC contractors' testing facilities.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/
to get your GMDSS Operator's license, probably (DM) because you'll be
more than 20 miles offshore, a stupid, but typically government,
requirement. Your RO license satisfies the CG, but not the FCC
requirement.

GMDSS Operator (DM) requires passing elements 1,3 and 9. This only lets
you OPERATE and do limited maintenance on it. If you test out for
element 7, you'll be also a GMDSS MAINTAINER, licensed to repair and
install. Add element 8 test to work on the ship's radar transmitter.

You are licensed, now, to be the radio officer on a containership that
only has VHF-FM and never leaves US waters....(c;

I know....it's stupid....I agree.

The only license you must have RO seatime and quals for is the TELEGRAPH
license so you can operate the Morse station the ship hasn't had for 30
years.