I am planning on going in the yard later this month primarily to paint
the top sides (later I will author a long, forlorn, story about how
not to paint a boat) but for now am wondering what anti fouling paint
to use. The boat has, probably 15 years of anti fouling accumulation
on the bottom so this year we are going to scrape it all off and start
new.

I have been using Jotun commercial (for barges) bottom paint for years
(the kind with TBT in it) and have been getting about 5 years out of
it. But now that TBT based paints are no longer available I am
debating what to use.

At the moment there seem to be three choices (1) Jotun self polishing
paint in various grades depending on boat speed; (2) Chugoku self
polishing, again in different grades and (3) a copper and epoxy mix
that used to be called "CopperBot" but I now believe has a different
name, that is supposed to last ten years or more.

Now, to cut to the chase. Does anybody have actual experience with
current anti fouling paints in tropical waters?

P.S. do not suggest adding TBT to an existing anti fouling paint as a
number of friends have tried that route with extremely variable
results ranging from the paint never hardening to the paint not
sticking. One or two have had good results but the variation from boat
to boat does not seem to fit any pattern. One guy says he mixes ten
percent TBT and it works; another claimed to use 3 percent and the
paint didn't harden.....

Anyone with actual experience that can give me some good advise?


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Apr 13, 8:07 pm, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
At the moment there seem to be three choices (1) Jotun self polishing
paint in various grades depending on boat speed; (2) Chugoku self
polishing, again in different grades and (3) a copper and epoxy mix
that used to be called "CopperBot" but I now believe has a different
name, that is supposed to last ten years or more.

Now, to cut to the chase. Does anybody have actual experience with
current anti fouling paints in tropical waters?

I put CopperBot on my boat in 2001 and then sanded it down and put
Devoe ABC on over it in 2002. Copperbot makes a nice barrier coat.
The good news was that it would stand up to serious sanding the bad
news was that it needed it all the time. Unless you dive the boat
weekly I wouldn't go that route. Pretty much all the serious tropical
cruisers I know use ablatives and most get 18-24 months out of a multi-
coat application. I've used a couple of different Devoe products have
done a few seasons with Interlux. I'm currently into my second season
with Micron Extra. IME, the ablative copper paints work very well for
3-4 months and then get dramatically less effective. However, they
are really easy to clean. By the end of two seasons you'll typically
be down to almost no paint and any that's left will have very little
anti-fouling ability... The Interlux products are more expensive than
the Devoe stuff that I was getting in New Zealand but not notably
better.

-- Tom.

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:49:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 13, 8:07 pm, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
At the moment there seem to be three choices (1) Jotun self polishing
paint in various grades depending on boat speed; (2) Chugoku self
polishing, again in different grades and (3) a copper and epoxy mix
that used to be called "CopperBot" but I now believe has a different
name, that is supposed to last ten years or more.

Now, to cut to the chase. Does anybody have actual experience with
current anti fouling paints in tropical waters?

I put CopperBot on my boat in 2001 and then sanded it down and put
Devoe ABC on over it in 2002. Copperbot makes a nice barrier coat.
The good news was that it would stand up to serious sanding the bad
news was that it needed it all the time. Unless you dive the boat
weekly I wouldn't go that route.

This is what I had suspected, although an article in Practical Boat
Owner alleged that one boat hadn't scrubbed the bottom in ten years.

I watched a video of the stuff being applied and it is literally just
epoxy and copper dust. They even tell you to keep stirring the can
while you are rolling it on. It is also a minimum of four coats --
sort of a modern day copper sheeting.

I couldn't see how it could be effective UNLESS you scrubbed it pretty
aggressively on a frequent basis.

At the moment I am leaning toward the Jotun as I have used Jotun
before and it did what they said it would and secondly, a mate who is
in Cochin,India at the moment is using it and swears that he doesn't
have any growth at all. He has been at anchor in Cochin for about two
months now so I'll see what his boat looks like when he gets back.


Pretty much all the serious tropical
cruisers I know use ablatives and most get 18-24 months out of a multi-
coat application. I've used a couple of different Devoe products have
done a few seasons with Interlux. I'm currently into my second season
with Micron Extra. IME, the ablative copper paints work very well for
3-4 months and then get dramatically less effective. However, they
are really easy to clean. By the end of two seasons you'll typically
be down to almost no paint and any that's left will have very little
anti-fouling ability... The Interlux products are more expensive than
the Devoe stuff that I was getting in New Zealand but not notably
better.

-- Tom.

Devoe isn't available here, as far as I know and I have had extremely
bad experience with International paint - some people say because
International mixes the paint that is sold here in Thailand.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Of the dozen or so people I've known who applied a "copper-epoxy"
bottom coating, about half said it worked pretty well... with regular
scrubbing. One of those was a pretty serious racer.


Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Devoe isn't available here, as far as I know and I have had extremely
bad experience with International paint - some people say because
International mixes the paint that is sold here in Thailand.


Bummer, Devoe makes good products. The only advice I can give germane
to your location is, what kind of anti-fouling does the Thai military
and/or gov't vessels use? I bet it's TBT. And I bet that a guy who
knows the right people can get some too.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:31:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Of the dozen or so people I've known who applied a "copper-epoxy"
bottom coating, about half said it worked pretty well... with regular
scrubbing. One of those was a pretty serious racer.


Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Devoe isn't available here, as far as I know and I have had extremely
bad experience with International paint - some people say because
International mixes the paint that is sold here in Thailand.


Bummer, Devoe makes good products. The only advice I can give germane
to your location is, what kind of anti-fouling does the Thai military
and/or gov't vessels use? I bet it's TBT. And I bet that a guy who
knows the right people can get some too.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King
The last time I was in Penang and talked to a chemical shop there the
owner said "I'll keep selling TBT as long as the Malaysian Navy uses
TBT based anti fouling".. So you are probably correct. unfortunately I
can't buy it.




Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Apr 13, 11:28 pm, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
This is what I had suspected, although an article in Practical Boat
Owner alleged that one boat hadn't scrubbed the bottom in ten years.

I think something else must be going on with that one. Certainly
there is a lot of copper in the paint. Burnished up my boat's bottom
looked like an old pot. But, copper isn't very good against the soft
stuff and once there is even a light coating of that other things
colonize on top of it... On a racing boat where the bottom is buffed
every weekend I'm sure Copperbot would be great but I can't see it
working if never scrubbed. It certainly didn't work for me.

I watched a video of the stuff being applied and it is literally just
epoxy and copper dust. They even tell you to keep stirring the can
while you are rolling it on. It is also a minimum of four coats --
sort of a modern day copper sheeting.

Yeah, I had it professionally applied by the local dealer and they did
all that. I've even seen a copper sheathing system advertised.
However, traditionally copper sheeting is to keep the worms out; I
don't think they've evolved to eat glass and plastic yet. Fresh
copper seems to be ok anti-fouling but it doesn't last.

At the moment I am leaning toward the Jotun ..

I've head pretty good things about the Jotun ablatives, too, but
haven't used them myself.

-- Tom.

On 2008-04-14 08:30:38 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

The last time I was in Penang and talked to a chemical shop there the
owner said "I'll keep selling TBT as long as the Malaysian Navy uses
TBT based anti fouling".. So you are probably correct. unfortunately I
can't buy it.

You can't befriend someone in the Malaysian Navy?

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:11:59 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 13, 11:28 pm, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
This is what I had suspected, although an article in Practical Boat
Owner alleged that one boat hadn't scrubbed the bottom in ten years.

I think something else must be going on with that one. Certainly
there is a lot of copper in the paint. Burnished up my boat's bottom
looked like an old pot. But, copper isn't very good against the soft
stuff and once there is even a light coating of that other things
colonize on top of it... On a racing boat where the bottom is buffed
every weekend I'm sure Copperbot would be great but I can't see it
working if never scrubbed. It certainly didn't work for me.

I watched a video of the stuff being applied and it is literally just
epoxy and copper dust. They even tell you to keep stirring the can
while you are rolling it on. It is also a minimum of four coats --
sort of a modern day copper sheeting.

Yeah, I had it professionally applied by the local dealer and they did
all that. I've even seen a copper sheathing system advertised.
However, traditionally copper sheeting is to keep the worms out; I
don't think they've evolved to eat glass and plastic yet. Fresh
copper seems to be ok anti-fouling but it doesn't last.

At the moment I am leaning toward the Jotun ..

I've head pretty good things about the Jotun ablatives, too, but
haven't used them myself.

-- Tom.

I met Sonny Levi (google for more information) with the last boat he
built. It was a very 1930's looking motor sailer built in India and
copper sheathed. Sonny told me that the copper worked all right as
long as he got the bottom scrubbed once a month. I watched them clean
the bottom one time and they were using those metal pot cleaners that
look like a handful of lathe turnings and were really going at the
bottom.



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:20:03 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-14 08:30:38 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

The last time I was in Penang and talked to a chemical shop there the
owner said "I'll keep selling TBT as long as the Malaysian Navy uses
TBT based anti fouling".. So you are probably correct. unfortunately I
can't buy it.

You can't befriend someone in the Malaysian Navy?

I probably could if I spent some time in Lamout, the west coast naval
base. Interestingly I met a chap this morning that had a mate who was
in the boat painting business who had some detailed information.

The problems with TBT are, other then it is banned in anti fouling
paints, by international treaty, it is a pretty potent poison, it
doesn't mix with all bottom paints and its reaction varies from paint
to paint.

My present thoughts are that I'll probably go with one of the modern
self polishing paints as I don't want to go through all the trials and
tribulations of painting the bottom only to discover that the paint
didn't get hard; or it all falls off.

I do have plans to mix enough paint to do an 8 ft. dinghy. Half with
TBT and half with copper based anti fouling paint. Just to see what
happens.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Greetings Bruce,
I use Jotan and merely add between 5 to 10% TBT - usually 5%. I was
told not to use more than 10 percent as it will affect the drying and
adhesion of the antifouling. It works well for me. Of course some of
the problems people may have experienced may have been applying the
wrong anitfouling ove and existing layer. I know when I started using
Jotan in Malaysia instead of ABC-3, I had to sand back hard and apply
a Jotan primer coat. - But you and they would have thought of that
aspect.

cheers
Peter



On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:07:11 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

I am planning on going in the yard later this month primarily to paint
the top sides (later I will author a long, forlorn, story about how
not to paint a boat) but for now am wondering what anti fouling paint
to use. The boat has, probably 15 years of anti fouling accumulation
on the bottom so this year we are going to scrape it all off and start
new.

I have been using Jotun commercial (for barges) bottom paint for years
(the kind with TBT in it) and have been getting about 5 years out of
it. But now that TBT based paints are no longer available I am
debating what to use.

At the moment there seem to be three choices (1) Jotun self polishing
paint in various grades depending on boat speed; (2) Chugoku self
polishing, again in different grades and (3) a copper and epoxy mix
that used to be called "CopperBot" but I now believe has a different
name, that is supposed to last ten years or more.

Now, to cut to the chase. Does anybody have actual experience with
current anti fouling paints in tropical waters?

P.S. do not suggest adding TBT to an existing anti fouling paint as a
number of friends have tried that route with extremely variable
results ranging from the paint never hardening to the paint not
sticking. One or two have had good results but the variation from boat
to boat does not seem to fit any pattern. One guy says he mixes ten
percent TBT and it works; another claimed to use 3 percent and the
paint didn't harden.....

Anyone with actual experience that can give me some good advise?


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)