"Bob Crantz" wrote

You could always replace the in cabin switches with manual/remote circuit
breakers (RCCBs) and place the circuit breaker control switches out in the
cockpit. That would keep the power circuit the same as you have it now and
the controls in both places would be exact duplicates, no need for three
way switches, etc. You would know if they were on or off too.

Amen!

Bob Crantz


Well, they already rejected a latching relay as "to complex" even though
they are readily available, cheaper, easier to install and more reliable
than a 3-way circuit. An RCCB costs 20 times as much and impossible to
find except from specialized aviation or industrial control sources.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

There are all interesting suggestions. I agree that complexity shouldn't
be the goal, and I want something that is not much less bullet proof than
what I currently have.

I very much agree that one must confirm that on-ness or off-ness of the
lights no matter the setup. My intention was, is, will always be, to do
that confirmation at the fixture, but my goal here is to find something
that can be used relatively faster than having to go below or ask someone
else to go below, perhaps someone who is less familiar with the panel.

I teach and do charters on my boat, so I don't like to rely on a
student/customer to do something that I can't immediately confirm.

All things being equal, I'd like to be able to flip the switch on my own,
then, when the opportunity presents itself, confirm things are working.

Another thing to keep in mind is that while I always confirm my bow
lights work before I leave the dock, there's no easy and sometimes no
safe way to confirm they're on underway. I cannot imagine leaving the
helm to go all the way forward in less than ideal conditions or asking a
less experienced person to do so to confirm the bow lights are on. The
masthead is easy to confirm of course, as is the stern light.

My instrument panel has an ammeter which tells me the total current being
drawn from the house battery by all the auxiliaries on the panel.
When you switch anything on, even a single mast light, you can see the
needle give a little kick which confirms that it is indeed working.
And yes, I know that a short circuit on the wiring would also give a kick,
probably much greater, but IMO you can ignore this possibility if you
manually check the operation of the lights occasionally.



Neither of my panels have an amp meter unfortunately. Even if they did, I
wouldn't be able to see them from the cockpit. I've been thinking about
upgrading the panel, but haven't done so.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:59:59 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

"Bob Crantz" wrote

You could always replace the in cabin switches with manual/remote
circuit
breakers (RCCBs) and place the circuit breaker control switches out in
the
cockpit. That would keep the power circuit the same as you have it now
and
the controls in both places would be exact duplicates, no need for three
way switches, etc. You would know if they were on or off too.

Amen!

Bob Crantz


Well, they already rejected a latching relay as "to complex" even though
they are readily available, cheaper, easier to install and more reliable
than a 3-way circuit. An RCCB costs 20 times as much and impossible to
find except from specialized aviation or industrial control sources.

Or, if remembering to turn them on or off is a problem, you could simply
get in
the habit of turning on the NAV lights when you get underway as part of
the same
ritual when you get other things ready, and turn them off when you return
and
put things away. That means you can verify they are on by a physical
check, too,
when you go forward to untie the safety tie around your furled headsail.
No
modifications needed. It's perfectly acceptable to run the NAV lights
whenever
underway, even at high noon on a sunny day. These days, with LED NAV
lights, it
doesn't present much of a problem of running down the batteries.

Steaming light can be rigged to go on and off with the engine.




This is an interesting idea... I don't have LEDs, but still... I could
always switch over to LEDs, which I've been thinking about doing also. Given
the conditions, it wouldn't be totally bizarre to have them on in
preparation for the summer fog we know we'll get at some point.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
My instrument panel has an ammeter which tells me the total current
being
drawn from the house battery by all the auxiliaries on the panel.
When you switch anything on, even a single mast light, you can see the
needle give a little kick which confirms that it is indeed working.
And yes, I know that a short circuit on the wiring would also give a
kick, probably much greater, but IMO you can ignore this possibility if
you manually check the operation of the lights occasionally.



Neither of my panels have an amp meter unfortunately. Even if they did, I
wouldn't be able to see them from the cockpit. I've been thinking about
upgrading the panel, but haven't done so.

Go on, have a go its fun :-)
I am in the middle of doing it.
It is easy enough to add an amp meter. A suitable meter has the current to
the board all passing through an external shunt and the meter itself is a
milliampmeter connected across the shunt and calibrated in amps.
Apart from the indications I mentioned it helps you calculate if your house
battery is going to last through the trip

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
My instrument panel has an ammeter which tells me the total current
being
drawn from the house battery by all the auxiliaries on the panel.
When you switch anything on, even a single mast light, you can see the
needle give a little kick which confirms that it is indeed working.
And yes, I know that a short circuit on the wiring would also give a
kick, probably much greater, but IMO you can ignore this possibility if
you manually check the operation of the lights occasionally.



Neither of my panels have an amp meter unfortunately. Even if they did, I
wouldn't be able to see them from the cockpit. I've been thinking about
upgrading the panel, but haven't done so.

Go on, have a go its fun :-)
I am in the middle of doing it.
It is easy enough to add an amp meter. A suitable meter has the current to
the board all passing through an external shunt and the meter itself is a
milliampmeter connected across the shunt and calibrated in amps.
Apart from the indications I mentioned it helps you calculate if your
house battery is going to last through the trip



I've been putting it off mostly because of where to put it is an issue. I'd
likely have to increase the size of the cutout for the new panel, which I
hate doing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:03:36 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:59:59 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

"Bob Crantz" wrote

You could always replace the in cabin switches with manual/remote
circuit
breakers (RCCBs) and place the circuit breaker control switches out in
the
cockpit. That would keep the power circuit the same as you have it now
and
the controls in both places would be exact duplicates, no need for
three
way switches, etc. You would know if they were on or off too.

Amen!

Bob Crantz


Well, they already rejected a latching relay as "to complex" even though
they are readily available, cheaper, easier to install and more reliable
than a 3-way circuit. An RCCB costs 20 times as much and impossible to
find except from specialized aviation or industrial control sources.

Or, if remembering to turn them on or off is a problem, you could simply
get in
the habit of turning on the NAV lights when you get underway as part of
the same
ritual when you get other things ready, and turn them off when you
return
and
put things away. That means you can verify they are on by a physical
check, too,
when you go forward to untie the safety tie around your furled headsail.
No
modifications needed. It's perfectly acceptable to run the NAV lights
whenever
underway, even at high noon on a sunny day. These days, with LED NAV
lights, it
doesn't present much of a problem of running down the batteries.

Steaming light can be rigged to go on and off with the engine.




This is an interesting idea... I don't have LEDs, but still... I could
always switch over to LEDs, which I've been thinking about doing also.
Given
the conditions, it wouldn't be totally bizarre to have them on in
preparation for the summer fog we know we'll get at some point.

I figure that all the other plans I've heard involved spending money
and doing a fair amount of work. Seems like this plan would be less
money and work, and ultimately simpler and just as effective. You even
get the bonus of increased reliability, and much lower power
consumption. My running lights, which used to draw over 3 amps, now
draw .3 amps TOTAL for the three combined. Especially on a sailboat
with minimal ability to charge batteries, that's a big plus.




I'm going to check it out... the LEDs shouldn't be a problem, but I'm not
particularly gifted when it comes to electical stuff (like getting the stern
light to work with engine on... just as likely to get it right or fry
something and have to call the fire dept.) LOL


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mar 27, 12:48 am, wrote:
... Or, if remembering to turn them on or off is a problem, you could simply get in
the habit of turning on the NAV lights when you get underway as part of the same
ritual when you get other things ready, and turn them off when you return and
put things away. ...

Many commercial operators do this. On a sailboat going between power
and sail might be an issue. If using conventional lights then the
steaming light (masthead) could be turned on by the ignition. If
using a tri-color then you'd need some way of switching between it and
the under-power lights.

-- Tom.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:33:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:03:36 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:59:59 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

"Bob Crantz" wrote

You could always replace the in cabin switches with manual/remote
circuit
breakers (RCCBs) and place the circuit breaker control switches out
in
the
cockpit. That would keep the power circuit the same as you have it
now
and
the controls in both places would be exact duplicates, no need for
three
way switches, etc. You would know if they were on or off too.

Amen!

Bob Crantz


Well, they already rejected a latching relay as "to complex" even
though
they are readily available, cheaper, easier to install and more
reliable
than a 3-way circuit. An RCCB costs 20 times as much and impossible
to
find except from specialized aviation or industrial control sources.

Or, if remembering to turn them on or off is a problem, you could
simply
get in
the habit of turning on the NAV lights when you get underway as part
of
the same
ritual when you get other things ready, and turn them off when you
return
and
put things away. That means you can verify they are on by a physical
check, too,
when you go forward to untie the safety tie around your furled
headsail.
No
modifications needed. It's perfectly acceptable to run the NAV lights
whenever
underway, even at high noon on a sunny day. These days, with LED NAV
lights, it
doesn't present much of a problem of running down the batteries.

Steaming light can be rigged to go on and off with the engine.




This is an interesting idea... I don't have LEDs, but still... I could
always switch over to LEDs, which I've been thinking about doing also.
Given
the conditions, it wouldn't be totally bizarre to have them on in
preparation for the summer fog we know we'll get at some point.

I figure that all the other plans I've heard involved spending money
and doing a fair amount of work. Seems like this plan would be less
money and work, and ultimately simpler and just as effective. You even
get the bonus of increased reliability, and much lower power
consumption. My running lights, which used to draw over 3 amps, now
draw .3 amps TOTAL for the three combined. Especially on a sailboat
with minimal ability to charge batteries, that's a big plus.




I'm going to check it out... the LEDs shouldn't be a problem, but I'm not
particularly gifted when it comes to electical stuff (like getting the
stern
light to work with engine on... just as likely to get it right or fry
something and have to call the fire dept.) LOL

If you have a key switch that must be turned to operate the engine, it
may also have a switched 12 volts terminal for accessories and gauges
that get power when you turn it on. If not, you could change out the
keyswitch to one that does have that.




Yes. It should have a switched 12vdc terminal. Next time I'm at the boat,
I'm going to check.

The two lights that would need to come on when the engine is running would
be the stern and steaming lights. I'm trying to think of another situation
when I'd want either of those two on. I can't think of a situation, but if
there is one, it would be nice to have a bypass to force them on.

Golf was brutal... I think I'll stick to sailing. LOL


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On 2008-03-27 21:40:09 -0400, "Capt. JG" said:

The two lights that would need to come on when the engine is running
would be the stern and steaming lights.

The stern light should be on the nav switch, as it should be on with
the red and green ones, under sail or power.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2008032721510550073-jerelull@maccom...
On 2008-03-27 21:40:09 -0400, "Capt. JG" said:

The two lights that would need to come on when the engine is running
would be the stern and steaming lights.

The stern light should be on the nav switch, as it should be on with the
red and green ones, under sail or power.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/



Yeah, duh... just realized that after I typed it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com