RichH wrote:
My wife rapidly learned when I encouraged she go out on a small one
design all by herself (my complicated racing scow with 33 control
lines !!!!) ... and when the 'questions' from her started in earnest I
knew that she was 'sold' on sailing.

My wife & I raced a Lightning together for years, and her skills &
confidence grew tremendously... one of the difficulties we had was the
she was often solicited to crew for other teams! She occasionally
skippered the boat in races but the main lesson gained from this was
1- she *can* do it but 2- she's not as good as I and would rather
place well (while insisting she's 'not competitive by nature')

I have felt very comfortable with my wife skippering cruising boats.

She now can helm our boats in any big-boat race and with precision
that would match the best of well experienced helmsmen.
We leave on a 2-3 year 'journey' on our boat this fall .... primarily
her idea !!!!!


Excellent work! I am looking forward to seeing posts of your cruising
adventures.

Just remember if YOUR sailing skills arent (honestly) that good there
will be many unnecessary 'conflicts' --- get her into lessons or get
her off by herself in a small sailing dinghy ..... if you want a
'partner'. Motivate, communicate, appreciate ...... otherwise you
simply wont have a boat very long ... or wont have that wife very
long.
;-)

It looks like they've muddled along OK for quite some time, but with
large amounts of friction. Getting rid of the friction is a worthy
goal. I wish I had some sure & simple way of achieving it. A mother/
daughter sailing weekend sounds like it could be a good idea... maybe
on a chartered boat

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote:

On Feb 12, 8:29 pm, Stephen Trapani wrote:

wrote:

On Feb 12, 6:00 pm, Gogarty wrote:

Back when we were growing up in Marblehead, Mass., and sailing at young
ages, we thought the worst thing that could happen to a man would be to
marry a woman who did not like sailing. Theh we discovered sex. But now
after many years we have all gone back to the original opinion.

A little background:

Married 28 yrs, 3 kids, 21, 17 and 11. Been sailing for 20 yrs. She
is the touchy-feely type with degrees in education and counseling and
I am the analytic type MS Physics and MSEE so you can imagine how well
this works. She likes to sail for the aesthetics whereas I like to
sail for the problem solving aspects. She clearly cannot concentrate
on steering and will never understand how the sails work. She claims
that having something on shore to use as a mark helps her but I have
not noticed this and often we are simply too far out so it is either
steer by the compass or by feel of the tiller or watch the sails and
she can do none of these because she is tuned in to watching the
people aboard as you would expect. Unfortunately, she wants to steer
and always wants me to explain how to do things I have taught her
dozens of times in the past (knots, using the VHF, using the compass,
etc.). I lost patience with teaching her a long time ago.
My 21 yr old daughter is a biology major so is technical enough to
understand things and even my 11 yr old daughter grasps things so fast
it amazes me. Saturday she casually remarked we would need a course of
310 (our reciprocal) to get back to our channel.. I can count on them
when I need them whereas I cannot count on my wife to do what needs to
be done in a hurry. If I tell my 11 yr old daughter to hold the boat
into the wind while I drop the main she does it whereas my wife is
unable to do so. I don't know why.
Weirdly, my son is just like my wife and is incapable of doing even
the most basic things (would impale himself on a screwdriver) although
he is always Mr Popularity and he is an alien to me.
I do most of my sailing alone but I see other families sailing and
really want this to work for us. Unfortunately, I cannot count on my
wife and am actually much safer sailing alone or with the kids and
myself. Sailing with her is like sailing single handed but with one
arm tied behind me. I have tried getting her to sail small boats by
herself but she doesn't like them (surely a sign of something).
So, how do other sailors deal with sailing with an inept spouse when
it is clear that NOTHING will help the situation? Is this simply a
case of "Some people don't belong on boats"?

If she understood how she is putting others at risk (can you two
communicat?) and if she had other things to do (like socialize) why
would she insist upon taking the helm? Is she still putting everyone at
risk just sitting their enjoying the aesthetics? Why does she have to be
banned from the boat entirely?

Stephen


OTOH, she has her good qualities. On Saturday, she looked at the
tattered 20 yr old Bimini and said "You really ought to buy a new
one". How can you be too angry with a wife who APPROVES of you
spending money on the boat? OTOH, she then said "Then we could have
more friends sail with us because it would be more comfortable".
That's all I need, more people aboard to interfere with sailing and to
distract her when she insists on steering.

I have a similar problem just canoeing with the GF. Finally solved by
telling her to "just sit there and look cute; *I'll* handle the boat".

DT

My brother wasn't steering the boat too good.. I kept telling him,, stay on
course, do this do that.

I went below..

When I came up on deck he was gone.

I looked back and he was sitting in the dinghy tied to the boat, a beer in
hand.

"What are you doing" I yelled.

He just laid back and sipped on the brew.

I finally pulled him back to the now totally messed up, off course boat.

He got on board,, I got out of the way ,, and away we went.

Your problem is YOU. Get the F...k out of the way. Leave your wife alone.
If she messes up..

Good for her. Let her mess up, let her have fun..

Pick a day when an accidental jibe isn't going to be a big deal.

Let her have at it..

Soon,, she will be telling you ..

"Get back on course".

===
wrote in message
...
A nice day, 12 kts and maybe in the 50s. Sailing with wife, 21 yr old
daughter, 11 yr old daughter and another 11 yr old friend. Everybody
takes turns at the tiller. Unfortunately, my wife is simply unable to
steer. EVERYBODY else quickly grasps the idea of feeling the pressure
on the tiller and steering accordingly. She is unable to do so.
Within a minute of closing my eyes and leaning back against the cabin,
I hear the sails flogging and THE DAMNED BOAT IS TACKING. She is
looking puzzled pushing the tiller every which way. I put her back on
course and fortunately my daughter wants to steer. Later, going
downwind, my wife wants to steer again so I tell her, "Keep it on 330
degrees, I'm going below to make a PB sandwich". The two little girls
are blocking the companionway ladder so I ask my little daughter to
make me a sandwich. My wife begins to nag them to get out of the way
so I can do it and I say they can do it and she insists that the kids
clear the ladder and this goes on and on and on and on and.....Suddenly,
the damned boom crashes across. WE'VE FU*&%$G JIBBED! She is so busy
doing what she shouldn't be doing that she allows the boat to jibe
nearly knocking me into the water.
I have had it, she is a menace to everybody around her on the boat.
So, I want to discourage her from ever going sailing again before she
kills someone. Yes, I have tried everything I can think of but she is
simply incapable of steering. Unfortunately, she forgets almost
everything she learns from one sailing trip to another. I have lost
track of the number of times I have taught her how to tie various
knots. I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that she simply
should not be on a boat. Oddly, my daughters seem to do very well.
Yes, I am responsible for what happens on my boat and part of that
responsibility is keeping the inept from hurting others.

On Feb 13, 7:20 pm, "Sir Thomas of Cannondale"
wrote:
My brother wasn't steering the boat too good.. I kept telling him,, stay on
course, do this do that.

I went below..

When I came up on deck he was gone.

I looked back and he was sitting in the dinghy tied to the boat, a beer in
hand.

"What are you doing" I yelled.

He just laid back and sipped on the brew.

I finally pulled him back to the now totally messed up, off course boat.

He got on board,, I got out of the way ,, and away we went.

Your problem is YOU. Get the F...k out of the way. Leave your wife alone.
If she messes up..

Good for her. Let her mess up, let her have fun..

Pick a day when an accidental jibe isn't going to be a big deal.

Let her have at it..

Soon,, she will be telling you ..

"Get back on course".

wrote in message

...

A nice day, 12 kts and maybe in the 50s. Sailing with wife, 21 yr old
daughter, 11 yr old daughter and another 11 yr old friend. Everybody
takes turns at the tiller. Unfortunately, my wife is simply unable to
steer. EVERYBODY else quickly grasps the idea of feeling the pressure
on the tiller and steering accordingly. She is unable to do so.
Within a minute of closing my eyes and leaning back against the cabin,
I hear the sails flogging and THE DAMNED BOAT IS TACKING. She is
looking puzzled pushing the tiller every which way. I put her back on
course and fortunately my daughter wants to steer. Later, going
downwind, my wife wants to steer again so I tell her, "Keep it on 330
degrees, I'm going below to make a PB sandwich". The two little girls
are blocking the companionway ladder so I ask my little daughter to
make me a sandwich. My wife begins to nag them to get out of the way
so I can do it and I say they can do it and she insists that the kids
clear the ladder and this goes on and on and on and on and.....Suddenly,
the damned boom crashes across. WE'VE FU*&%$G JIBBED! She is so busy
doing what she shouldn't be doing that she allows the boat to jibe
nearly knocking me into the water.
I have had it, she is a menace to everybody around her on the boat.
So, I want to discourage her from ever going sailing again before she
kills someone. Yes, I have tried everything I can think of but she is
simply incapable of steering. Unfortunately, she forgets almost
everything she learns from one sailing trip to another. I have lost
track of the number of times I have taught her how to tie various
knots. I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that she simply
should not be on a boat. Oddly, my daughters seem to do very well.
Yes, I am responsible for what happens on my boat and part of that
responsibility is keeping the inept from hurting others.

As dt is finding, canoeing is the ultimate test of a relationship. If
you can stand to have her steer while you are swinging from bank to
bank and going through spider webs from her steering without going
nuts, you'll prob do ok as a couple. Our first date was a canoe trip
where it started seriously storming and we did the rapids by
flashlight and it rained very hard for 48 hours. Relationship went
downhill from there and she even got seruiously hurt in a climbimg
accident on our 90 day camping honeymoon in CO. We might last through
sailing.

Sir Thomas of Cannondale wrote:

My brother wasn't steering the boat too good.. I kept telling him,, stay on
course, do this do that.

I went below..

When I came up on deck he was gone.

I looked back and he was sitting in the dinghy tied to the boat, a beer in
hand.

"What are you doing" I yelled.

He just laid back and sipped on the brew.

I finally pulled him back to the now totally messed up, off course boat.

He got on board,, I got out of the way ,, and away we went.

Your problem is YOU. Get the F...k out of the way. Leave your wife alone.
If she messes up..

Good for her. Let her mess up, let her have fun..

Pick a day when an accidental jibe isn't going to be a big deal.

Let her have at it..

Soon,, she will be telling you ..

"Get back on course".

=


It's the only way...

Dorothy was a hoot on the tiller at first.

She often proclaimed it, "Sick and Wrong! And backwards too!"
For a while it was refered to as the "Evil thing".

She still somtimes starts to go the wrong way, but she catches it
quickly now.

She's only rounded up once in a header - learned not to do that.

And she hasn't accidentally gybed.
A demo on a windy day was enough to figer it out.
She's REAL careful about that downwind.

All in all, for a non-tech girl, she's doing pretty good.

Richard

When Bob wanted to buy a boat, we took a trip to the Virgin Islands on
a crewed charter first. When he did buy the boat, I took some lessons
by myself. So I agree with that advice. She doesn't need your bad
attitude towards her - it isn't helping her learn.

Second, I find that I cannot steer with a tiller. I do OK with a
wheel, but I just can't do a tiller. And if I try with the tiller,
then there's a period that I can't do it with the wheel either. So I
refuse to use a tiller. Bob thinks that I'm crazy, but that's what
works for me. And if he wants me on the boat taking a turn at the
helm, it has to be a wheel and even then it takes concentrated thought
on my part (especially with a wind on the aft quarter) to know which
way to turn to keep the wind in the proper alignment. We do have
hydraulic steering and I know all you purists are going to say that
there's less feel. But that's immaterial - it doesn't do me any good
to feel pressure if I don't know which way to steer when it changes..
I am directionally challenged in a lot of respects. I also have a
problem backing a car, and telling my right from my left (the OTHER
right). So maybe that is your wife's problem.

Also, it does not sound as though either of you is giving the boat
your full attention when your children and a friend are along. If
she is arguing with you she's not paying attention to the boat. So if
you want her to pay attention to the boat - don't argue with her and
distract her. She might do perfectly well if she was alone on the
boat or with someone more supportive.

wrote:

A nice day, 12 kts and maybe in the 50s. Sailing with wife, 21 yr old
daughter, 11 yr old daughter and another 11 yr old friend. Everybody
takes turns at the tiller. Unfortunately, my wife is simply unable to
steer. EVERYBODY else quickly grasps the idea of feeling the pressure
on the tiller and steering accordingly. She is unable to do so.
Within a minute of closing my eyes and leaning back against the cabin,
I hear the sails flogging and THE DAMNED BOAT IS TACKING. She is
looking puzzled pushing the tiller every which way. I put her back on
course and fortunately my daughter wants to steer. Later, going
downwind, my wife wants to steer again so I tell her, "Keep it on 330
degrees, I'm going below to make a PB sandwich". The two little girls
are blocking the companionway ladder so I ask my little daughter to
make me a sandwich. My wife begins to nag them to get out of the way
so I can do it and I say they can do it and she insists that the kids
clear the ladder and this goes on and on and on and on and.....Suddenly,
the damned boom crashes across. WE'VE FU*&%$G JIBBED! She is so busy
doing what she shouldn't be doing that she allows the boat to jibe
nearly knocking me into the water.
I have had it, she is a menace to everybody around her on the boat.
So, I want to discourage her from ever going sailing again before she
kills someone. Yes, I have tried everything I can think of but she is
simply incapable of steering. Unfortunately, she forgets almost
everything she learns from one sailing trip to another. I have lost
track of the number of times I have taught her how to tie various
knots. I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that she simply
should not be on a boat. Oddly, my daughters seem to do very well.
Yes, I am responsible for what happens on my boat and part of that
responsibility is keeping the inept from hurting others.

I'm sorry for your wife..

I think you need to focus more on your marriage than on sailing..
Remember when it was "fun" to do things together, and you couldn't get
enough of her?

I give her credit for going along with your dreams and goals.. Maybe
you should also..

Diana

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:27:57 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

A nice day, 12 kts and maybe in the 50s. Sailing with wife, 21 yr old
daughter, 11 yr old daughter and another 11 yr old friend. Everybody
takes turns at the tiller. Unfortunately, my wife is simply unable to
steer. EVERYBODY else quickly grasps the idea of feeling the pressure
on the tiller and steering accordingly. She is unable to do so.
Within a minute of closing my eyes and leaning back against the cabin,
I hear the sails flogging and THE DAMNED BOAT IS TACKING. She is
looking puzzled pushing the tiller every which way. I put her back on
course and fortunately my daughter wants to steer. Later, going
downwind, my wife wants to steer again so I tell her, "Keep it on 330
degrees, I'm going below to make a PB sandwich". The two little girls
are blocking the companionway ladder so I ask my little daughter to
make me a sandwich. My wife begins to nag them to get out of the way
so I can do it and I say they can do it and she insists that the kids
clear the ladder and this goes on and on and on and on and.....Suddenly,
the damned boom crashes across. WE'VE FU*&%$G JIBBED! She is so busy
doing what she shouldn't be doing that she allows the boat to jibe
nearly knocking me into the water.
I have had it, she is a menace to everybody around her on the boat.
So, I want to discourage her from ever going sailing again before she
kills someone. Yes, I have tried everything I can think of but she is
simply incapable of steering. Unfortunately, she forgets almost
everything she learns from one sailing trip to another. I have lost
track of the number of times I have taught her how to tie various
knots. I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that she simply
should not be on a boat. Oddly, my daughters seem to do very well.
Yes, I am responsible for what happens on my boat and part of that
responsibility is keeping the inept from hurting others.

MMC wrote:

Diana
We used to have episodes like that too. Our sailing experience changed after
I saw the sticker "Have You Flogged Your Crew Today?".

Hey! Where can get one of those? I sometimes need a reminder, lest I
let the crew get lax.

Cheers
Marty

On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:17:20 -0500, Marty wrote:

We used to have episodes like that too. Our sailing experience changed after
I saw the sticker "Have You Flogged Your Crew Today?".

Hey! Where can get one of those? I sometimes need a reminder, lest I
let the crew get lax.

I used to like the one that said: "The floggings will not stop until
morale improves".

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:38:08 -0500, "MMC" wrote:


"Dr. Di" wrote in message
.. .
I'm sorry for your wife..

I think you need to focus more on your marriage than on sailing..
Remember when it was "fun" to do things together, and you couldn't get
enough of her?

I give her credit for going along with your dreams and goals.. Maybe
you should also..

Diana
We used to have episodes like that too. Our sailing experience changed after
I saw the sticker "Have You Flogged Your Crew Today?". I realized I needed
to relax and stop being such a butthole.
Maybe the guys wife is destined to be a passenger or it could be that his
tension is causing her to be stressed out, feeling like she can't do
anything right.
Tension ruins any good time. Hard to have fun when your screaming at
someone. Hard for the person getting screamed at too.
I'd suggest an auto pilot.
MMC

I suspect that problems between partners on a boat are symptomatic of
ongoing difficulties while on shore.. Perhaps the isolation and
confinement merely provide an opportunity to vent pent up emotions and
resentments that may otherwise be suppressed..

On the other hand, it's not just the men that can be captain Blye..
I'm occasionally guilty of that with my husband, who hasn't had the
experience... He loves the sea, and we normally get along very well,
but every now and then I get so frustrated that he's more in my way
than of any help.. It's a kind of role reversal that I'm not proud
of..

In general, I think it best if they learn without constant supervision
and excessive instruction.. Give them a task and let them decide how
best to attack it.. We all made mistakes before, and we will continue
to do so, so maybe we should let those less experienced do likewise..

Diana


On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:27:57 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

A nice day, 12 kts and maybe in the 50s. Sailing with wife, 21 yr old
daughter, 11 yr old daughter and another 11 yr old friend. Everybody
takes turns at the tiller. Unfortunately, my wife is simply unable to
steer. EVERYBODY else quickly grasps the idea of feeling the pressure
on the tiller and steering accordingly. She is unable to do so.
Within a minute of closing my eyes and leaning back against the cabin,
I hear the sails flogging and THE DAMNED BOAT IS TACKING. She is
looking puzzled pushing the tiller every which way. I put her back on
course and fortunately my daughter wants to steer. Later, going
downwind, my wife wants to steer again so I tell her, "Keep it on 330
degrees, I'm going below to make a PB sandwich". The two little girls
are blocking the companionway ladder so I ask my little daughter to
make me a sandwich. My wife begins to nag them to get out of the way
so I can do it and I say they can do it and she insists that the kids
clear the ladder and this goes on and on and on and on and.....Suddenly,
the damned boom crashes across. WE'VE FU*&%$G JIBBED! She is so busy
doing what she shouldn't be doing that she allows the boat to jibe
nearly knocking me into the water.
I have had it, she is a menace to everybody around her on the boat.
So, I want to discourage her from ever going sailing again before she
kills someone. Yes, I have tried everything I can think of but she is
simply incapable of steering. Unfortunately, she forgets almost
everything she learns from one sailing trip to another. I have lost
track of the number of times I have taught her how to tie various
knots. I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that she simply
should not be on a boat. Oddly, my daughters seem to do very well.
Yes, I am responsible for what happens on my boat and part of that
responsibility is keeping the inept from hurting others.