hey, rhys, NO one suggested you were forced to buy the "Japanese Standard" in
condoms. You wanted a center cockpit boat, you got one. Live with it. Motor
with it. Enjoy the large aft stateroom/small salon. It was your choice.

Wendy, however, was asking about a serious bluewater boat she could singlehand.
Different criteria she has than you had. If she had said she wanted to motor
down/up the ICW twice a year, "sail" over to the Bahamas, tie to a dock for
extended periods of time, drink iced drinks starting at 3 in the afternoon and
running til sundown people would have given her different advise. But Wendy
didn't ask for that type of boat, she asked for a genuine bluewater sailor 30'
40' she could singlehand.

I say, Good for Wendy.

btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

(JAXAshby) wrote:

a.) it was condescending to women,

Only in your fevered mind, apparently.

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to
go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

It can, but usually doesn't unless there are a number of unnecessary
turns. Internal halyards aren't usually carried away by the wind, and
if it's that high, tearing out your Spinlock is the least of your
worries.

If what you were saying had much validity, we wouldn't have roller
furling. Almost all cruisers do. I don't, and thus have that "real
world" experience you so rarely believe others except yourself to
possess.

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that
to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".

Well, it's also better for the little man, I suppose, but my five foot
tall wife is quite happy on the tiller of my 34' C&C design in 35
knots. Other stronger, taller women and any number of men wouldn't be.
The preference is as much personal as practical. These days, Mini Me
can drive a Volvo 60 with the right equipment...so physicality is no
obstacle. Attitude and comfort levels are. Ellen MacArthur is five
two, after all, and she's probably in the top five ocean racer list.


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.


That's *one* reason.

To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up.

I'll have to tell my center-cockpit ketch owning buddy to return that
Voyager windvane, then. He obviously doesn't know when he's being
steered effectively.

Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way.
Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own).

I actually agree with you, JAX. Windvane and autopilot fill each
others' gaps, as last month's Cruising World article putting the two
devices head-to-head in ocean conditions demonstrated. Where I differ
is in positing that self-steering and a center-cockpit boat are
necessarily opposed. They aren't.

She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and
perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

ALL of them, eh? That sailing simulator you own is some piece of work,
JAX. Anyway, thanks for being the gallant arbiter of insult to females
everywhere. I'm sure you are in many prayers tonight.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even
know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

Flying is flying, and sailing is sailing. I think they are two different
and distinct skill sets, and proficiency in one will not necessarily
indicate proficiency in the other, navigation notwithsanding. While events
occur much more rapidly in an airplane than in a boat, what is more
important is that the dimensional and situational aspects are completely
different, and thus require different skill sets. I can fly. I can't sail-
haven't got a clue what to do when decision time rolls around as regards
reefing, what sail to set, etc. The fact that I was able to learn how to
fly indicates that I might be able to learn how to sail. No more, no less.

Wendy

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:32:13 GMT, "Wendy"
wrote:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even
know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

Flying is flying, and sailing is sailing. I think they are two different
and distinct skill sets, and proficiency in one will not necessarily
indicate proficiency in the other, navigation notwithsanding. While events
occur much more rapidly in an airplane than in a boat, what is more
important is that the dimensional and situational aspects are completely
different, and thus require different skill sets. I can fly. I can't sail-
haven't got a clue what to do when decision time rolls around as regards
reefing, what sail to set, etc. The fact that I was able to learn how to
fly indicates that I might be able to learn how to sail. No more, no less.

You will be able to learn to sail. It is flying (gliding) at the
boundary between two fluids, with foils scaled to fit the fluid. But
Please!! learn to sail before you start worrying about what kind of
boat you want.

You will learn to sail fastest in a boat barely big enough to hold
you. That is because you will feel the effect of everything you do
very soon.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
...

You will learn to sail fastest in a boat barely big enough to hold
you. That is because you will feel the effect of everything you do
very soon.

Yah, I've got a 17' Hobie Cat now- very fast, very twitchy. It's the sport
model, with no jib, but it's loads of fun. I've learned a lot on it ("how
to upright your catmaran" was the first lesson I'd just like to step up
to something a bit more serious.

Wendy

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:37:20 GMT, "Wendy"
wrote:


"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
.. .

You will learn to sail fastest in a boat barely big enough to hold
you. That is because you will feel the effect of everything you do
very soon.

Yah, I've got a 17' Hobie Cat now- very fast, very twitchy. It's the sport
model, with no jib, but it's loads of fun. I've learned a lot on it ("how
to upright your catmaran" was the first lesson I'd just like to step up
to something a bit more serious.

OK, but don't assume that 'more serious'='bigger.' You couldn't get
much more serious than a 49er, for example (not a singlehander--I am
not suggesting it for you). It is only 15 feet long.

For honing sailing skills, and especially seat-of-pants instincts, a
serious one-design fleet is more important than what the boat is. If
there were a fleet of Europe dinghies that you could join (womens'
Olympic singlehander) you could learn really fast. Everyone would help
you, and you would see your progress objectively.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:37:20 GMT, "Wendy"
wrote:

OK, but don't assume that 'more serious'='bigger.' You couldn't
get
much more serious than a 49er, for example (not a
singlehander--I am
not suggesting it for you). It is only 15 feet long.

For honing sailing skills, and especially seat-of-pants
instincts, a
serious one-design fleet is more important than what the boat
is. If
there were a fleet of Europe dinghies that you could join
(womens'
Olympic singlehander) you could learn really fast. Everyone
would help
you, and you would see your progress objectively.

I learned to sail in a 12' sailing skiff that was a local
backyard built boat. It was very tender and if you switched your
gum to the other side of your mouth, you end up swimming. In
righting the boat you remembered what you did wrong and didn't do
that again. It was suggested to sail a Europe and along with that
I would pick the Sunfish, Laser, or a Force 5 as a learning tool.
Everything there can be applied to a large boat.

Leanne
s/v Fundy

true. for sail trim. for "cruising" in a sailboat there are a couple of
skills that might not fit under the catagory called "sail trim".

would pick the Sunfish, Laser, or a Force 5 as a learning tool.
Everything there can be applied to a large boat.

true. for sail trim. for "cruising" in a sailboat there are a couple of
skills that might not fit under the catagory called "sail trim".

would pick the Sunfish, Laser, or a Force 5 as a learning tool.
Everything there can be applied to a large boat.

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:37:20 GMT, "Wendy"
wrote:

OK, but don't assume that 'more serious'='bigger.' You couldn't
get
much more serious than a 49er, for example (not a
singlehander--I am
not suggesting it for you). It is only 15 feet long.

For honing sailing skills, and especially seat-of-pants
instincts, a
serious one-design fleet is more important than what the boat
is. If
there were a fleet of Europe dinghies that you could join
(womens'
Olympic singlehander) you could learn really fast. Everyone
would help
you, and you would see your progress objectively.

I learned to sail in a 12' sailing skiff that was a local
backyard built boat. It was very tender and if you switched your
gum to the other side of your mouth, you end up swimming. In
righting the boat you remembered what you did wrong and didn't do
that again. It was suggested to sail a Europe and along with that
I would pick the Sunfish, Laser, or a Force 5 as a learning tool.
Everything there can be applied to a large boat.

Leanne
s/v Fundy

And *please* don't assume that sail trim skills define the universe of skills
desireable in a cruising sailor.

don't assume that 'more serious'='bigger.' You couldn't get
much more serious than a 49er, for example (not a singlehander--I am
not suggesting it for you). It is only 15 feet long.

For honing sailing skills, and especially seat-of-pants instincts, a
serious one-design fleet is more important than what the boat is. If
there were a fleet of Europe dinghies that you could join (womens'
Olympic singlehander) you could learn really fast. Everyone would help
you, and you would see your progress objectively.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"