On Oct 27, 2:47 am, Bob wrote:
On Oct 26, 6:32 am, Skip Gundlach wrote:

October 26 - What A Drag!
Skip

Dear Skip..................................

Please supply the following data;

1) what is the weight of your boat?

2) How much DRAG (pull on your ground tackle) does your boat create
in the following winds

15 knots _________ pounds

30 knots _________ pounds

42 knots _________ pounds

60 knots_________ pounds

What is the SAFE WORKING LOAD of your chain AND conections (shackles)
and any eye splices. "purdy strong" wont work. I need pounds rated for
EACH item in your anchoring system.... or what normal people call
"ground tackle."

Can you tell me exactly what type bottom youre over???
HOw would you find out if you dont know? If you say look at a chart
youre only 20% right.

If you can not supply the requested information simply kiss your ass
goodbuy.

NOw for some other comments................................
The weight of your anchor is not the only consideration when
calculating "holding ability"
ANchoring is NOT rocket science NOR a magical art.

Its just plain old fassioned RIGGING! and i dont mean rigging as the
yachting group defines it. To be honest most choker setters know more
about rigging than the average "captain" on every sail boat Ive talked
to. ANd ya cant get more stupid than a choker setter.! Hell, guys have
been dragging ships off beaches for hundreds of years. How do they do
that???? A few anchors, some wire rope, a purchase or two. If a bunch
of a two pack a day alcoholic thick knecked salvors can do it a Bank
President with a univesity degree should be able to figure it out dont
ya think Skip?

To think all you need is an Acme FX 99 anchor to keep yo from draging
is naive at best.

Dear SKIP............... go read the following book and stop making
such a public fool of yourself.

"The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring", by Earl Hintz,

Bob

Hi, Bob, and group,

Answers to your questions:

1) Boat as built was 33K, but with all the stuff, I presume to be at
about 40K. No lift ever showed that much - but I can't believe it any
less. Yes, I know, that's not a scientifically sound answer, but
absent calibrated strain guages and a specific project to determine
that, I doubt I'll ever know - at least not without putting it in a
very carefully calibrated tank to measure the displacement.

In any case, the windage, at least to me, would be the more
significant issue. Not being an engineer (perhaps Roger, or you, if
you are one, too) could tell me if that's a reasonable premise.

2) I have not put a strain guage, not owning one, on my chain.
Further, thanks, I've not (yet) been in anything - at anchor - which
exceeded 40 knots. Again, if I had the calculated windage, and the
proper means (not an engineer) of calculation of wind forces I could
probably tell you - but I can't.

The SWL on the shackles and swivels is well in excess of my chain,
which is all 5/16HT, G40 hotdipped galvanized, which SWL I don't
recall at the moment. However, at the time I sized it/them, the chain
was sufficient by all popular measures, and the swivels and shackles,
what with my not wanting to have the weakest point at the anchor, were
well over that. I gave several vendors a hard time when they couldn't
be definitive about the SWL, until I got very specific information on
the parts I bought. Generally speaking, other than chain, which if I
did would be unwieldy for the weight, I've gone at least one size
larger than recommended, which is how I wound up with 130# of anchor
on the bow rollers.

As to eye splices, we have only one on the bow, and that's on the
secondary anchor, which has in front of it 175' of the aforementioned
stuff. That is to a size up from recommended, not 5/8 but 3/4
MegaBraid, spliced properly. There's not a better way to do it and
have it go through the gypsy, so it's as good as it's going to get
without that side being all chain as well. New England Rope feels very
confident in that method of splice, so, as I can't prove them wrong,
it's what I did.

Our snubbers are in one case 5/8 threestrand on a logging hook, and
3/4 MegaBraid as above on a rather more hightech hook designed for
5/16. When we back down, including on the earlier mentioned
adventures, it stretches very significantly. No, I don't know the SWL
on those, either, but I did at the time. I'm not going to bother to
look it up for this exercise.

As to the supplementary anchoring gear, we have a Fortress 37, a
CQR45, and two smaller danforths, along with rode bags. Those have
the aforementioned MegaBraid and 3/8BBB as which came with the boat as
built, but only about 30', as to carry that in the dink would be
problematic for more. I have additional hundreds of feet of both 3/4
Megabraid and 5/8 threestrand aboard to extend the 300' standard on
all our rodes, whether all chain or part.

As to finding out exactly what kind of bottom I'm over, throwing a
small anchor overboard, setting it hard (and dragging, as would be
possible with a small one other than hooked terminally on some rock or
other obstruction), motoring over it and then pulling it up to inspect
what came up would be my favored one in waters other than conducive to
diving. As my current professor, however, I expect you'll correct me
as to the actual proper means.

Local knowledge might help, but I've learned to be very distrustful of
LN, as, from what I've gotten and experienced, it's many times either
wrong or malicious.

As to your other comments, I believe I'm aware of what you mentioned,
other than I don't know the term "Choker Setter" - a clear deficiency
in my education which I will work diligently to remedy.

As to reading, I agree that the Hinz (Hintz?) book will be worth
acquiring - but I've not yet crossed its path. The Seven Seas flea
market at Annapolis provided me with two others I've been seeking,
Storm Tactics (on which much storm has been occasioned in these parts
recently) and Heavy Weather Sailing.

As to being a public fool, how else would I get publicly taken
properly to task so I could become less of one in private???

:{))

L8R

Skip

PS are you a character in a Steven Patsis-created strip's character's
occasional novelizations? Certainly, nearly anything I read suggests
a match...

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
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