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#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
My buddy Joe's Jenneau 42 has two electrical systems, the original 220VAC
from France that runs the fridge and battery charger, and a simple 115VAC system to power some internal American outlets and the MarineAir A/C box. I objected to the power cord that came with the boat. On the boat end is a 30A, 220VAC FRENCH (no, don't curse) plug with 3 round holes in a triangle we probably can't buy over here. The other end has this HUMONGOUS 125/250VAC, 50A, $120 connector that plugs into the stupid marina box. The cable in between them is #14 ORANGE DROPCORD waiting to EXPLODE if anything shorts! It's a fire waiting to happen. So, Joe sent me for the parts to put in a proper 50A service it really doesn't need, given the very light electrical system of this boat. My head is still reeling from seeing the prices for the simplest of electrical parts for a damned little BOAT! If I bought a 50' 50A 125/250 DROPCORD from Waste Marine Pirates with a new 50A hull connector to wire the really nice French GFI to....IT WOULD COST NEARLY $800! $660 for a DROPCORD?!! The damned thing is PLASTIC, not armored with 22K gold plate! Is yellow plastic THAT expensive?! Molded plastic plugs? The shiny plated boat socket is $194.99! It's not Palladium, either! I found the cable for around $450 on the net, through Boater's World curiously. Even that is just AWFUL! We gave up. Joe's chest was hurting from his heart pounding that hard. Why should a DROPCORD cost $660?! Goddamned THEIVING *******S! You'd think we were plugging in an AIRCRAFT CARRIER.... Larry -- http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...oducte/10001/- 1/10001/126902/377%20710%201640/0/Electrical%20Cordsets/Primary% 20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%201640&Ne=0 &Ntt=Electrical%20Cordsets&Ntx=mode% 20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTo kenURL=true&storeNum=9 &subdeptNum=310&classNum=574 Yes, that's its URL, probably why the price is $660! |
#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
"Larry" wrote: snip most of the venting of the spleen Why should a DROPCORD cost $660?! Goddamned THEIVING *******S! You'd think we were plugging in an AIRCRAFT CARRIER.... Strip out the 250V European stuff and the problem goes away. Lew |
#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... "Larry" wrote: snip most of the venting of the spleen Why should a DROPCORD cost $660?! Goddamned THEIVING *******S! You'd think we were plugging in an AIRCRAFT CARRIER.... Strip out the 250V European stuff and the problem goes away. Lew Can you make your own cord-using components from a US electrical supplier? Your electrical supplier will be able to outline the proper US standard and code. Look around, maybe you have a member at you club that is an electrical contractor and can held you? |
#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
wrote in
: Can you make your own cord-using components from a US electrical supplier? Your electrical supplier will be able to outline the proper US standard and code. Look around, maybe you have a member at you club that is an electrical contractor and can held you? That's the curious part. Yachts don't use a standardized connector the rest of the electrical industry uses. There seems to be only a handful of suppliers (Hubbell, Charles, Marinco, etc.), specialty companies who can demand these rediculous prices, maybe in collusion with each other and the stores. We could use: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....duct_info.php? products_id=288 at $275. or buy the connectors: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....duct_info.php? products_id=276 at $36 http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....duct_info.php? products_id=277 at $44 But, are these the same size? Boat plugs don't have that center guide pin, so I'd think they were "different". I don't think these will fit....at 1/3 the awful price of boat connectors. Why can't we wire marinas with NEMA 14-50R sockets? http://www.onestopbuy.com/279-8151.asp $9.39 ($7.88 if you buy 10 of them) Like EVERY electric stove in America uses....making them CHEAP! http://www.onestopbuy.com/275-T-6585.asp The plug is $25. I can hear it, "But they don't lock in place!". Waitaminit! What happened the last time someone's $800 twist-locked drop cord got pulled on on the dock? IT RIPPED APART! It's only plastic, you know. It doesn't need to lock onto the plug. The cord is usually wrapped around the post and puts NO STRAIN AT ALL on the plug! There ARE outside weatherproof covers for these cheap connectors! Do we need them? NO WE DON'T! The outlet on the dock is INSIDE a weatherproof box. Look at yours. The inlet on your boat could just as well be, as this French boat is, INSIDE a locker with a notch to put the cord in to close the locker. If it were INSIDE a locker, everyone walking down the little decks wouldn't be STEPPING ON THE PROTRUDING PLUG. We could eliminate the whole boat inlet nonsense and hard wire the boat's power cord to a NEMA box INSIDE THE LOCKER with a WINDER ON IT! Oh, what? The damned boat power cord always in the way at sea might WIND ITSELF UP INSIDE THE BOAT? How silly....it HAS to plug into the $150 inlet RIGHT WHERE YOU WALK IN AND OUT, doesn't it? Yes, because "we've always done it that way". Nonsense....The shore power cable is NOT USED AT SEA. It doesn't HAVE to, and if you look down the dock never is, all sealed up. These drop cords on all our docks is plugged in and left open. Those black sealing rings lay all over the place...(c; Larry -- $800 for a dropcord.....is just STUPID! Hell, we could reduce dock rent if we didn't need $200 connectors! |
#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
"Larry" wrote in message ... wrote in : Can you make your own cord-using components from a US electrical supplier? Your electrical supplier will be able to outline the proper US standard and code. Look around, maybe you have a member at you club that is an electrical contractor and can held you? That's the curious part. Yachts don't use a standardized connector the rest of the electrical industry uses. There seems to be only a handful of suppliers (Hubbell, Charles, Marinco, etc.), specialty companies who can demand these rediculous prices, maybe in collusion with each other and the stores. I like your feedback. Last spring we at our club upgraded the electrical panels on the docks. A member contractor build all the panels as per the codes and standars with components purchased from wholesale electrical suppliers. We could use: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....duct_info.php? products_id=288 at $275. or buy the connectors: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....duct_info.php? products_id=276 at $36 http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....duct_info.php? products_id=277 at $44 But, are these the same size? Boat plugs don't have that center guide pin, so I'd think they were "different". I don't think these will fit....at 1/3 the awful price of boat connectors. Why can't we wire marinas with NEMA 14-50R sockets? http://www.onestopbuy.com/279-8151.asp $9.39 ($7.88 if you buy 10 of them) Like EVERY electric stove in America uses....making them CHEAP! http://www.onestopbuy.com/275-T-6585.asp The plug is $25. I can hear it, "But they don't lock in place!". Waitaminit! What happened the last time someone's $800 twist-locked drop cord got pulled on on the dock? IT RIPPED APART! It's only plastic, you know. It doesn't need to lock onto the plug. The cord is usually wrapped around the post and puts NO STRAIN AT ALL on the plug! There ARE outside weatherproof covers for these cheap connectors! Do we need them? NO WE DON'T! The outlet on the dock is INSIDE a weatherproof box. Look at yours. The inlet on your boat could just as well be, as this French boat is, INSIDE a locker with a notch to put the cord in to close the locker. If it were INSIDE a locker, everyone walking down the little decks wouldn't be STEPPING ON THE PROTRUDING PLUG. We could eliminate the whole boat inlet nonsense and hard wire the boat's power cord to a NEMA box INSIDE THE LOCKER with a WINDER ON IT! Oh, what? The damned boat power cord always in the way at sea might WIND ITSELF UP INSIDE THE BOAT? How silly....it HAS to plug into the $150 inlet RIGHT WHERE YOU WALK IN AND OUT, doesn't it? Yes, because "we've always done it that way". Nonsense....The shore power cable is NOT USED AT SEA. It doesn't HAVE to, and if you look down the dock never is, all sealed up. These drop cords on all our docks is plugged in and left open. Those black sealing rings lay all over the place...(c; Larry -- $800 for a dropcord.....is just STUPID! Hell, we could reduce dock rent if we didn't need $200 connectors! |
#6
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 05:40:09 +0000, Larry wrote:
If I bought a 50' 50A 125/250 DROPCORD from Waste Marine Pirates with a new 50A hull connector to wire the really nice French GFI to....IT WOULD COST NEARLY $800! You might do better if you buy the wire at Home Despot or Lowes and put on your own connectors. I know that HD used to sell yellow, heavy duty multi-conductor cable. If not you should be able to order it from any good electrical supplier. |
#7
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
Wayne.B wrote in
: On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 05:40:09 +0000, Larry wrote: If I bought a 50' 50A 125/250 DROPCORD from Waste Marine Pirates with a new 50A hull connector to wire the really nice French GFI to....IT WOULD COST NEARLY $800! You might do better if you buy the wire at Home Despot or Lowes and put on your own connectors. I know that HD used to sell yellow, heavy duty multi-conductor cable. If not you should be able to order it from any good electrical supplier. I think the answer is to hang a dual 15A breaker box, out from the 50A plug on the dock, then I can use a STANDARD #14 drop cord, safely, and have plenty of 240VAC power for the French stuff in the boat. 15A = 3.6KVA at that voltage, more than enough to power everything in the boat! It's really stupid marinas put megadock power systems on 35' finger piers that need 20A of 115/230VAC for sailboats. Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
#8
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:45:47 +0000, Larry wrote:
It's really stupid marinas put megadock power systems on 35' finger piers that need 20A of 115/230VAC for sailboats. Most docks in the north east have outlets for both 30 amp cables (120 volt) or 50 amp (240 volts split). Smaller boats without shore power connectors usually carry an adapter which converts a 30 amp twist lock plug into a conventional 15 amp socket. You could do the same thing with a 50 amp plug just using one leg of the 240. |
#9
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
Wayne.B wrote in
: Smaller boats without shore power connectors usually carry an adapter which converts a 30 amp twist lock plug into a conventional 15 amp socket. You could do the same thing with a 50 amp plug just using one leg of the 240. There's an interesting discussion that needs to be aired out....... The breaker on the 50A outlet on the dock is 50A. I'm not sure how much surge it will produce before it trips, but it's a thermal breaker, not magnetic, so it takes time to heat up and trip on a short. So, here comes Joe Boater with his "adapter". Joe plugs his adapter into the massive 50A jack, then plugs his #12 30A boat cord into the adapter. You've all seen it and thought nothing of it. Now, if this were in a building, it would be called a "violation of the National Electrical Code" because the 50 amp branch circuit was "adapted" to a way-too-small-for-50-amp cable leading to the fire in the boat. If the cable shorts, because someone pinched it in a hatch for instance, the cable will explode in flames all the way back to the adapter. This will set the flammable plastic boat and wooden dock on fire, just because the marina did not provide the PROPER circuit for Joe Boater's 30A (or worse less) circuit. There are lots of "splitters", even provided by the marina staff!, to plug your 20 or 30A boat into this 50A branch circuit.....still a violation as far as I am concerned. And you're gonna SLEEP in there?! Larry -- Why bother to put breakers on the dock at all?? |
#10
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Dropcord Pricing...
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:23:14 +0000, Larry wrote:
So, here comes Joe Boater with his "adapter". Joe plugs his adapter into the massive 50A jack, then plugs his #12 30A boat cord into the adapter. You've all seen it and thought nothing of it. Now, if this were in a building, it would be called a "violation of the National Electrical Code" because the 50 amp branch circuit was "adapted" to a way-too-small-for-50-amp cable leading to the fire in the boat. Technically correct but in practice it doesn't seem to be a problem. Most shore power fires are at the boat end of the cable due to bad connections. |
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