Jere Lull writes:

Ante Topic Mimara wrote:


I would like to find a boat that is between 25 and 40
feet in length, that has an aft cabin layout. If the
kind persons in this group could make suggestions and
recommendations for such a craft, I would appreciate it.

I don't believe you'll easily find an aft cabin boat in
that price range that is sailaway or even near. At $10k,
you're looking for an old boat under about 32' (like our
Xan, below). Few aft "cabins" were made in that size range
then. Most marketed as cabins were hardly expanded
quarterberths. The newer boats are considerably more
expensive, but not much better.

You are using terms with which I am not familiar. Things
like "quarterberth", "cockpit", "sailaway" and the like.

This is why I ask in a message group such as this, but I
do not expect that I would get so much lingo and jargon
thrown my way without explanation. I have found out that
a boat I have seen which sold out of Florida which has a
cabin aft, was a Carver model, 29 feet in length, and did
sell for about $7,500.00. This is my size, price, and type
boat. If not a cabin at the aft, then something along the
same style of boat.

We found one center cockpit ketch with a cramped aft
cabin -- and no real "V" or cabin for other than leprechhans
(sp?). Thus, it had only one real berth, and that was for
two singles because the only walkway was between the berths.
Cost was in the right range, but we'd have had to spend about
that much more before we hit the water, assuming we'd want
to sleep separately or make.

Make with what? LOL! I see you have a good sense of humor as
do others! It is only the wife and myself who will use this
boat, and it would be used to live upon during weekends and
such. I see berths at bow of boat as not comfortable, due to
V sleeping style arrangement. How does one cuddle with open
space underneath in middle of V? This seems to not be very
comfortable to me.

Personally, I find most boats with aft cabins uncomfortable.
Ventilation and headspace are usually poor.

If one were to live for lengths of time, yes, but a boat is
more similar to a camper on wheels, is it not? If I want to
live permanently on boat, I have seen a 44 foot double cabin
Pacemaker cruiser for under ten thousand of dollars. It may
need work, but is more like a house to me.

I don't know why you want the aft cabin. Most usually want
it to give privacy between two couples or the parents and kids.

No kids to speak of, unless you count those with four legs, such
as my kitties. They do sleep wherever they want. LOL!

That can be satisfied if the head is between the main cabin and
V and has two doors. That opens your search to quite a few more
boats.

As I say earlier, it is such that I really do not know enough of
what types of boats out there are for me, which is why I asked
for makes and models as suggestions to look at. To date, not one
of the reply posts made has done such. No matter. I will seek out
information wherever I can, and am ordering books from Amazon dot
com to suggest possibilities to me.

BTW, if you're looking for powerboats, we "run" with a number
of them, and they're often worse than sailboats in that
price/size range.

How could anyone sail a boat with sails on a river that is only
two hundreds of yards wide or less? I would not want a boat with
sails, if I were to go in the ocean out of the river either. How
does one move such a boat if there is no wind? Nevermind, this is
something about which I do not want or need to know. What I do
want is a boat with motors.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Jere Lull writes:

Ante Topic Mimara wrote:


I would like to find a boat that is between 25 and 40
feet in length, that has an aft cabin layout. If the
kind persons in this group could make suggestions and
recommendations for such a craft, I would appreciate it.

I don't believe you'll easily find an aft cabin boat in
that price range that is sailaway or even near. At $10k,
you're looking for an old boat under about 32' (like our
Xan, below). Few aft "cabins" were made in that size range
then. Most marketed as cabins were hardly expanded
quarterberths. The newer boats are considerably more
expensive, but not much better.

You are using terms with which I am not familiar. Things
like "quarterberth", "cockpit", "sailaway" and the like.

This is why I ask in a message group such as this, but I
do not expect that I would get so much lingo and jargon
thrown my way without explanation. I have found out that
a boat I have seen which sold out of Florida which has a
cabin aft, was a Carver model, 29 feet in length, and did
sell for about $7,500.00. This is my size, price, and type
boat. If not a cabin at the aft, then something along the
same style of boat.

We found one center cockpit ketch with a cramped aft
cabin -- and no real "V" or cabin for other than leprechhans
(sp?). Thus, it had only one real berth, and that was for
two singles because the only walkway was between the berths.
Cost was in the right range, but we'd have had to spend about
that much more before we hit the water, assuming we'd want
to sleep separately or make.

Make with what? LOL! I see you have a good sense of humor as
do others! It is only the wife and myself who will use this
boat, and it would be used to live upon during weekends and
such. I see berths at bow of boat as not comfortable, due to
V sleeping style arrangement. How does one cuddle with open
space underneath in middle of V? This seems to not be very
comfortable to me.

Personally, I find most boats with aft cabins uncomfortable.
Ventilation and headspace are usually poor.

If one were to live for lengths of time, yes, but a boat is
more similar to a camper on wheels, is it not? If I want to
live permanently on boat, I have seen a 44 foot double cabin
Pacemaker cruiser for under ten thousand of dollars. It may
need work, but is more like a house to me.

I don't know why you want the aft cabin. Most usually want
it to give privacy between two couples or the parents and kids.

No kids to speak of, unless you count those with four legs, such
as my kitties. They do sleep wherever they want. LOL!

That can be satisfied if the head is between the main cabin and
V and has two doors. That opens your search to quite a few more
boats.

As I say earlier, it is such that I really do not know enough of
what types of boats out there are for me, which is why I asked
for makes and models as suggestions to look at. To date, not one
of the reply posts made has done such. No matter. I will seek out
information wherever I can, and am ordering books from Amazon dot
com to suggest possibilities to me.

BTW, if you're looking for powerboats, we "run" with a number
of them, and they're often worse than sailboats in that
price/size range.

How could anyone sail a boat with sails on a river that is only
two hundreds of yards wide or less? I would not want a boat with
sails, if I were to go in the ocean out of the river either. How
does one move such a boat if there is no wind? Nevermind, this is
something about which I do not want or need to know. What I do
want is a boat with motors.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Ante Topic Mimara wrote:

I am soon to enter the market to purchase a previously-owned
boat. It will be used to travel up and down a river that feeds
into the ocean on the east coast of the US. What I am looking
for, are some recommendations and suggestions from the more
knowledgeable users of this newsgroup.

Are there many makes and models of boats that are under 36 feet
in length that have aft-cabins? I am aware of a 29' boat that
was recently up for auction on eBay which had an aft berth, but
I do not know who the manufacturer was, nor do I know the model.
This boat auctioned for about $7,500.00 or so, and that is at
the lower end of my price range. I am hoping to find one that
does not need much in the way of major mechanical or structural
work, at a maximum price of $11,000.00 or close to it.

I would like to find a boat that is between 25 and 40 feet in
length, that has an aft cabin layout. If the kind persons in
this group could make suggestions and recommendations for such
a craft, I would appreciate it.

I don't believe you'll easily find an aft cabin boat in that price range
that is sailaway or even near. At $10k, you're looking for an old boat
under about 32' (like our Xan, below). Few aft "cabins" were made in
that size range then. Most marketed as cabins were hardly expanded
quarterberths. The newer boats are considerably more expensive, but not
much better.

We found one center cockpit ketch with a cramped aft cabin -- and no
real "V" or cabin for other than leprechhans (sp?). Thus, it had only
one real berth, and that was for two singles because the only walkway
was between the berths. Cost was in the right range, but we'd have had
to spend about that much more before we hit the water, assuming we'd
want to sleep separately or make .

Personally, I find most boats with aft cabins uncomfortable. Ventilation
and headspace are usually poor.

I don't know why you want the aft cabin. Most usually want it to give
privacy between two couples or the parents and kids. That can be
satisfied if the head is between the main cabin and V and has two doors.
That opens your search to quite a few more boats.

BTW, if you're looking for powerboats, we "run" with a number of them,
and they're often worse than sailboats in that price/size range.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning curve ahead of you
(it seems you haven't any background in boating so don't know what to
specify), the other responders haven't made your life simple.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...pbsint=&ps=100

is a URL for the search you want (you'll likely have to cut and paste the
lines unless it wraps when you click on it, to get the full address). When
you have narrowed down your parameters, you can reduce the number of boats
presented, but for the moment, at least, there's 377 power boats from 25 to
40 feet at under 11,000 USD listed.

When you dump the new boats with no prices, that number reduces. When you
dump the parts of the world you're unwilling to explore, it reduces further.
When you go from 'all power' to the various (it allows you to select more
than one category of power boat) which are actually important to you, it
further reduces. However, there will still be lots to consider.

Once you've had a look at some of them, go back to the 'advanced search'
button (well, shaded area at the left of the page) and refine this search.

I don't think you'll get any other than a very project boat in your budget,
but at least it's a place to start.

FWIW, you can see some of the recent threads about my searching; whether you
agree with my methods, I can tell you that it will produce lots of boats to
consider...

L8R

Skip

Skip Gundlach writes:

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.

You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...search_results.
jsp?sm=3&cit=true&slim=quick&ybw=null&is=&type=%28 Power%29&
man=&hmid=0&ftid=0&enid=0&fromLength=25&toLength=4 0&luom=126&
fromYear=&toYear=&fromPrice=&toPrice=11000&currenc yid=100&city=
&pbsint=&ps=100

is a URL for the search you want (you'll likely have to cut
and paste the lines unless it wraps when you click on it, to
get the full address). When you have narrowed down your
parameters, you can reduce the number of boats presented,
but for the moment, at least, there's 377 power boats from
25 to 40 feet at under 11,000 USD listed.

This website I have not seen before. I like it that I can put in
things I wish, such as length, price, and other information. But
there are things on it which I do not know, like on the section
where it asks for type of boat. What means terms like "cockpit"
or "sedan"? Is it not the place on top of the boat that you stand
when you steer that is the cockpit? And a sedan has 4 doors, on
a car, but on a boat?

When you dump the new boats with no prices, that number reduces.
When you dump the parts of the world you're unwilling to explore,
it reduces further. When you go from 'all power' to the various
(it allows you to select more than one category of power boat)
which are actually important to you, it further reduces. However,
there will still be lots to consider.

This actually shows me what a lot of these boats looks like, and
this is what I needed. I am appreciative of this from you. But,
it also causes problems for me, in that now I have more things to
know, that I do not know. Where do I go to educate myself about
these terms and things I do not know?

Once you've had a look at some of them, go back to the 'advanced
search' button (well, shaded area at the left of the page) and
refine this search.

I did try to do advanced search, and entering a low of $1.00, and
high of $11,000.00, with certain regions (east US coast) I find
some 231 boats with which I can start to search. Many of these
boats are much more than I expected to find, and some are beautiful!

I don't think you'll get any other than a very project boat in
your budget, but at least it's a place to start.

I did look at many of these boats, and there are plenty of ones
there that I can take a more serious look at them. There are a
few that are not ready to be in water, needing much repair. But
in all, I am very appreciative of your help by giving me a link!

Thank you!

FWIW, you can see some of the recent threads about my searching;
whether you agree with my methods, I can tell you that it will
produce lots of boats to consider...

I have read your strings, and your methods are very complex, but
I believe you will find what boat suits you, and one that you
want. If what you do works for you, then you go with it. You
obviously know more than I, and I salute you, for you are knowing
what you have to do to get what it is that you want.

Thank you for your very kind help. As another writer said, I am
so very sorry that this post is not shorter, as I did not have
time to make it less long.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

On 18 Nov 2003 13:28:04 -0000, Ante Topic Mimara
] wrote (with possible editing):

Skip Gundlach writes:

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.

You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.

The real problem is this: yachting is not as simple as buying a car.
Mistakes are usually costly, they can be and often are fatal. The
boat you want to buy is quite large for a beginner and the price you
want to pay is quite low which indicates you will almost certainly end
up with a lot of problems. If you had a bit more experience, it would
be easier to guide you, but then, you wouldn't need advice.

Most folks don't want to lead you towards what they believe will be
real problems. If you want the cold hard truth: you are WAY out of
your element. You should, instead, pursue one of these paths:

1. If you want a boat that large, you will have to pay
considerably more. In addition, you will need to hire a skipper or
someone to teach you how to handle a craft that size - you absolutely
cannot learn that in books. Also, I think you don't realize how
expensive marine repairs can be. In addition, without the benefit of
a survey, there could well be things wrong which endanger your life,
but you won't know until it's too late.

2. Start with something much smaller - I'd suggest low 20's
at the largest and learn how to handle it. You'll still need
instruction, but it would be MUCH easier to begin there. This also
gives you a chance to be sure this is something you and your wife will
enjoy.

I'm not a captain, but I was raised on the water and have owned and
crewed on both power and sail up to 40'. I consider myself a novice,
a journeyman sailer maybe, but I think I know my limitations. I'm
afraid you might easily learn yours the "hard" way and that is VERY
easy to do at sea.

Please don't get angry. I would have sent this to you privately if
your email were posted...
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

Larry,
I concur with you that his expectatins (hopes?) are unrealistic, but
think you may have emphasized a couple of points a little too harshly.

Mistakes are usually costly, they can be and often are fatal.

Mistakes are all too often VERY costly and while they sometimes are
fatal, they usually are not. Not to say that this possibility isn't
important, (after all who wants to die or kill family mambers through
making mistakes?), but to be more realistic, shouldn't you have
substituted the word "sometimes" for "often"?

1. If you want a boat that large, ... you will need to hire a skipper or
someone to teach you how to handle a craft that size - you absolutely
cannot learn that in books.

You're right that stepping directly from dry land into a 40 footer is
not an easy task, frought with personal and property danger, but since
many have done it to say "you absolutely cannot" is a bit of an
exageration.

Your advice to start with something smaller is spot on. Do this in
moderate steps (say 18'-25' then 30'-32' then 40' with at least a year
of very heavy use at each stage) and it can be done safely and with a
great deal of enjoyment. Do it in one giant step, and you endanger
yourself and others, both financially and personally.

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Larry,
I concur with you that his expectatins (hopes?) are unrealistic, but
think you may have emphasized a couple of points a little too harshly.

Mistakes are usually costly, they can be and often are fatal.

Mistakes are all too often VERY costly and while they sometimes are
fatal, they usually are not. Not to say that this possibility isn't
important, (after all who wants to die or kill family mambers through
making mistakes?), but to be more realistic, shouldn't you have
substituted the word "sometimes" for "often"?

1. If you want a boat that large, ... you will need to hire a skipper or
someone to teach you how to handle a craft that size - you absolutely
cannot learn that in books.

You're right that stepping directly from dry land into a 40 footer is
not an easy task, frought with personal and property danger, but since
many have done it to say "you absolutely cannot" is a bit of an
exageration.

Your advice to start with something smaller is spot on. Do this in
moderate steps (say 18'-25' then 30'-32' then 40' with at least a year
of very heavy use at each stage) and it can be done safely and with a
great deal of enjoyment. Do it in one giant step, and you endanger
yourself and others, both financially and personally.

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

On 18 Nov 2003 13:28:04 -0000, Ante Topic Mimara
] wrote (with possible editing):

Skip Gundlach writes:

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.

You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.

The real problem is this: yachting is not as simple as buying a car.
Mistakes are usually costly, they can be and often are fatal. The
boat you want to buy is quite large for a beginner and the price you
want to pay is quite low which indicates you will almost certainly end
up with a lot of problems. If you had a bit more experience, it would
be easier to guide you, but then, you wouldn't need advice.

Most folks don't want to lead you towards what they believe will be
real problems. If you want the cold hard truth: you are WAY out of
your element. You should, instead, pursue one of these paths:

1. If you want a boat that large, you will have to pay
considerably more. In addition, you will need to hire a skipper or
someone to teach you how to handle a craft that size - you absolutely
cannot learn that in books. Also, I think you don't realize how
expensive marine repairs can be. In addition, without the benefit of
a survey, there could well be things wrong which endanger your life,
but you won't know until it's too late.

2. Start with something much smaller - I'd suggest low 20's
at the largest and learn how to handle it. You'll still need
instruction, but it would be MUCH easier to begin there. This also
gives you a chance to be sure this is something you and your wife will
enjoy.

I'm not a captain, but I was raised on the water and have owned and
crewed on both power and sail up to 40'. I consider myself a novice,
a journeyman sailer maybe, but I think I know my limitations. I'm
afraid you might easily learn yours the "hard" way and that is VERY
easy to do at sea.

Please don't get angry. I would have sent this to you privately if
your email were posted...
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

Ante Topic Mimara wrote:

Skip Gundlach writes:


While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.



You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.


I see we all got off on the wrong foot. Let's try again.....

From what I recall in the thread, you and your (wife?) are completely
new to boating, are looking a powerboat with an aft cabin for under
$11k, are on some narrow river you want to cruise up and down, and may
sometimes go on the ocean. That's more than we knew at first, but still
not enough to give you useful information.

If you tell us more of what, where and who you are, we can help you
better. For instance, which river (we may know it) and how far up and
down it you want to go, what you want to do at first (stop at marinas,
cruise in little side creeks, just be on the water....) how often you'll
be staying onboard overnight, and anything else you feel comfortable
saying about your dream. The more we know, the better job we can do.

You see, we all probably have had friends that have been in your
position, that got a boat and immediately "ran" before they knew how to
walk. Most times, the mishaps were merely amusing afterwards; some were
potentially dangerous.

A friend of ours went out for his first sail with us and within 3 months
(no more experience), got a $6k boat of dubious condition (he overpaid)
and immediately went south towards the islands. Luckily, he had enough
minor mishaps early on that he learned to slow down and learn what he
was doing. He sure had a lot of funny "experience learned" stories when
he flew back from Florida 6 months later.... (We could do the same trip
in 3 weeks.)

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/