Skip

Could you drop me a private email?

Leanne

1) What time yesterday do you need to buy your boat? ..g

IOW, don't rush into things, or you'll burn out quick or get into
trouble. There's lots to know about boats, and what of that actually
matters really depends on the individual. Mostly you need to learn about
yourself in relationship to this boat thing you're thinking of getting
into.

2) It's almost always really dumb, in every way, to buy big expensive
toys without having lots of personal experience. Once you have
experience, you start to know what questions to ask and to form some of
your own opinions. Without that, nothing anybody says much matters one
way or another.

3) A boat isn't a set of skies - at least not for most people's budget
or liability insurance coverage. You don't go buy one and try it out and
have a bang bang weekend to talk about at the office. Unless you're in
the bucks and can afford to write off some really _big_ mistakaes.

So go get some experience. It's easy. It can be free. It's fun. You want
sail boat? Go be rail meat for some racing skippers at the local yacht
clubs. Learn some ropes. Get screamed at. Bloody you hands. Stuff a
spiniaker. Puke over the side. Sop up brew at the commiseration bar
after the race. Take the CG Auxiliary courses.

Boats are great - go for it. But give yourself a chance. Let somebody
else pay the $2000 for a ripped sail. Let somebody else insurance cover
the gash he makes in the paint of the neighboring rich guy at the dock.
Make a fool of yourself in front of your sneering comrades - who might
at least get a good laugh out of it - instead of in front of your scared
****less "significant other". Let the _owner_ get freaked out when his
GPS batteries run out and the fog comes down - see how a real pro does
it so you find how _you_ would like to do it. g

You may decide you'd like ocean motorboat racing better - much faster,
louder, and macho. Or maybe kayaking will start to look better...

Rufus

1) What time yesterday do you need to buy your boat? ..g

IOW, don't rush into things, or you'll burn out quick or get into
trouble. There's lots to know about boats, and what of that actually
matters really depends on the individual. Mostly you need to learn about
yourself in relationship to this boat thing you're thinking of getting
into.

2) It's almost always really dumb, in every way, to buy big expensive
toys without having lots of personal experience. Once you have
experience, you start to know what questions to ask and to form some of
your own opinions. Without that, nothing anybody says much matters one
way or another.

3) A boat isn't a set of skies - at least not for most people's budget
or liability insurance coverage. You don't go buy one and try it out and
have a bang bang weekend to talk about at the office. Unless you're in
the bucks and can afford to write off some really _big_ mistakaes.

So go get some experience. It's easy. It can be free. It's fun. You want
sail boat? Go be rail meat for some racing skippers at the local yacht
clubs. Learn some ropes. Get screamed at. Bloody you hands. Stuff a
spiniaker. Puke over the side. Sop up brew at the commiseration bar
after the race. Take the CG Auxiliary courses.

Boats are great - go for it. But give yourself a chance. Let somebody
else pay the $2000 for a ripped sail. Let somebody else insurance cover
the gash he makes in the paint of the neighboring rich guy at the dock.
Make a fool of yourself in front of your sneering comrades - who might
at least get a good laugh out of it - instead of in front of your scared
****less "significant other". Let the _owner_ get freaked out when his
GPS batteries run out and the fog comes down - see how a real pro does
it so you find how _you_ would like to do it. g

You may decide you'd like ocean motorboat racing better - much faster,
louder, and macho. Or maybe kayaking will start to look better...

Rufus

Rufus wrote:

1) What time yesterday do you need to buy your boat? ..g

Another one who needs remedial reading... Sheesh.

IOW, don't rush into things, or you'll burn out quick or
get into trouble. There's lots to know about boats, and what
of that actually matters really depends on the individual.

So why don't you get off your lazy ass and tell the guy what
you think he needs to learn? Or better yet, as him what he
wants to learn? That be too much trouble for you, skippy?

Mostly you need to learn about yourself in relationship to
this boat thing you're thinking of getting into.

You don't know what he is thinking of getting into. You haven't
asked him a thing. Nor have you answered any of his questions.

2) It's almost always really dumb, in every way, to buy big
expensive toys without having lots of personal experience.

That's right. Tell him that you think he's too stupid to run
a boat. How encouraging!

Once you have experience, you start to know what questions to
ask and to form some of your own opinions.

Or, you go to a newsgroup, which is supposed to be filled with
people who should be ready to offer advice, encouragement, and
the benefit of their experience. No, wait. What was I thinking?
This is the real world, where there are morons like you who do
nothing but denigrate, demean, and discourage people who want to
learn something.

Without that, nothing anybody says much matters one
way or another.

Then why are you adding in your useless two cents worth?

3) A boat isn't a set of skies - at least not for most people's
budget or liability insurance coverage. You don't go buy one and
try it out and have a bang bang weekend to talk about at the office.
Unless you're in the bucks and can afford to write off some really
_big_ mistakaes.

You should have spent some of that money you have to waste on your
boat on remedial English classes, skippy. Do you mean "Skis"?

And while you're at it, do you think you could be a little more
condescending to this guy? I'm sure he really wants you to tell him
that he doesn't have enough on the ball to get into boating again.

So go get some experience. It's easy. It can be free. It's fun.

Not with people like you and your buddies around, it can't.

You want sail boat?

You really do need those remedial reading classes, skippy. Nowhere
did he say he wanted anything to do with sails. But we all know
where you're coming from. Address everything but what he has asked,
and then put him down, discourage him, and try to keep him out of
boating. Feel better now?

Go be rail meat for some racing skippers at the local yacht
clubs. Learn some ropes. Get screamed at. Bloody you hands.
Stuff a spiniaker. Puke over the side. Sop up brew at the
commiseration bar after the race. Take the CG Auxiliary courses.

I'm sure someone did all of this to you. With advice like that,
I wouldn't want to sail a rubber ducky in a bathtub. Way to go,
genius.

Boats are great - go for it. But give yourself a chance. Let
somebody else pay the $2000 for a ripped sail. Let somebody
else insurance cover the gash he makes in the paint of the
neighboring rich guy at the dock. Make a fool of yourself in
front of your sneering comrades - who might at least get a good
laugh out of it - instead of in front of your scared ****less
"significant other". Let the _owner_ get freaked out when his
GPS batteries run out and the fog comes down - see how a real
pro does it so you find how _you_ would like to do it. g

Bet you think this is funny... You and your kind wouldn't last
ten minutes around my marina. You'd have been thrown in the water
already.

You may decide you'd like ocean motorboat racing better - much
faster, louder, and macho. Or maybe kayaking will start to
look better...

If you honestly think this is any kind of helpful advice, you
need to get out of the sport ASAP. You do the rest of us a huge
disservice.

---
-
Those who complain about others not being "team players"
are the same ones who never give up the ball.
-----

Rufus wrote:

1) What time yesterday do you need to buy your boat? ..g

Another one who needs remedial reading... Sheesh.

IOW, don't rush into things, or you'll burn out quick or
get into trouble. There's lots to know about boats, and what
of that actually matters really depends on the individual.

So why don't you get off your lazy ass and tell the guy what
you think he needs to learn? Or better yet, as him what he
wants to learn? That be too much trouble for you, skippy?

Mostly you need to learn about yourself in relationship to
this boat thing you're thinking of getting into.

You don't know what he is thinking of getting into. You haven't
asked him a thing. Nor have you answered any of his questions.

2) It's almost always really dumb, in every way, to buy big
expensive toys without having lots of personal experience.

That's right. Tell him that you think he's too stupid to run
a boat. How encouraging!

Once you have experience, you start to know what questions to
ask and to form some of your own opinions.

Or, you go to a newsgroup, which is supposed to be filled with
people who should be ready to offer advice, encouragement, and
the benefit of their experience. No, wait. What was I thinking?
This is the real world, where there are morons like you who do
nothing but denigrate, demean, and discourage people who want to
learn something.

Without that, nothing anybody says much matters one
way or another.

Then why are you adding in your useless two cents worth?

3) A boat isn't a set of skies - at least not for most people's
budget or liability insurance coverage. You don't go buy one and
try it out and have a bang bang weekend to talk about at the office.
Unless you're in the bucks and can afford to write off some really
_big_ mistakaes.

You should have spent some of that money you have to waste on your
boat on remedial English classes, skippy. Do you mean "Skis"?

And while you're at it, do you think you could be a little more
condescending to this guy? I'm sure he really wants you to tell him
that he doesn't have enough on the ball to get into boating again.

So go get some experience. It's easy. It can be free. It's fun.

Not with people like you and your buddies around, it can't.

You want sail boat?

You really do need those remedial reading classes, skippy. Nowhere
did he say he wanted anything to do with sails. But we all know
where you're coming from. Address everything but what he has asked,
and then put him down, discourage him, and try to keep him out of
boating. Feel better now?

Go be rail meat for some racing skippers at the local yacht
clubs. Learn some ropes. Get screamed at. Bloody you hands.
Stuff a spiniaker. Puke over the side. Sop up brew at the
commiseration bar after the race. Take the CG Auxiliary courses.

I'm sure someone did all of this to you. With advice like that,
I wouldn't want to sail a rubber ducky in a bathtub. Way to go,
genius.

Boats are great - go for it. But give yourself a chance. Let
somebody else pay the $2000 for a ripped sail. Let somebody
else insurance cover the gash he makes in the paint of the
neighboring rich guy at the dock. Make a fool of yourself in
front of your sneering comrades - who might at least get a good
laugh out of it - instead of in front of your scared ****less
"significant other". Let the _owner_ get freaked out when his
GPS batteries run out and the fog comes down - see how a real
pro does it so you find how _you_ would like to do it. g

Bet you think this is funny... You and your kind wouldn't last
ten minutes around my marina. You'd have been thrown in the water
already.

You may decide you'd like ocean motorboat racing better - much
faster, louder, and macho. Or maybe kayaking will start to
look better...

If you honestly think this is any kind of helpful advice, you
need to get out of the sport ASAP. You do the rest of us a huge
disservice.

---
-
Those who complain about others not being "team players"
are the same ones who never give up the ball.
-----

Hey Nomen,
You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Or do you just
enjoy being abusive? So far today, you've been so to two separate
posters who offered reasonable opinions to Topic-Mimara.

His stated needs we

- between 25 and 40 feet
- It will be used to travel up and down a river that feeds into the ocean
- aft-cabin
- not need much in the way of major mechanical or structural work,
- a maximum price of $11,000.00

Now, there are numerous 25'-27' boats that fit this criteria, but since the name of this newsgroup is rec.boats.cruising, not rec.boats.daysailing, I think it was a reasonable assumption that we're not talking about a MacGregor 25 here. I/we could be wrong here, but that doesn't invalidate the reasonableness of the assumption. The very fact that his range is so broad (25'-40') seems to indicate that he is at the very beginning of the learning curve. This is certainly no crime, we have all been there, even if it was 30 or 40 years ago as is the case with you and I. But it does indicate that he has a lot of learning to do in order to determine what his needs are before he should start thinking of specific makes and models (the advise he asked for).

We've all known a number of people who jumped into boating by purchasing
a largish boat that was more than they could handle or maintain, turning
them off to boating forever. We've also known people who purchased
boats that were cheap but that needed lots or work only to find that the
cost in terms of time, skill and money was beyond their capability to
supply, again resulting in a miserable and often costly experience. The
two people you lambasted expressed concern that this might happen to the
original poster and suggested he may be better advised to set his
initial sights a little lower. Paul suggested that he do some research
on boating and gave him some good links to start with. Rufus suggested
that he actually get some experience on others boats. Both good
suggestions in my opinion.

You obviously do not share these opinions and chose to express your
disagreement by slinging abuse their way. If all those at your marina
are as unreasonable and unpleasant as you, I probably wouldn't last very
long there either.

I've no doubt that you'll offer up another ration of abuse as a result
of this post, so fire away. I'm a big guy and the fact that an asshole
doesn't like me isn't something that will cause me to loose any sleep.

Nomen Nescio wrote:

you're too lazy, and too self-righteous...So why don't you get off your lazy ass...where there are morons like you...your useless two cents worth,,,You and your kind wouldn't last ten minutes around my marina


You should have spent some of that money...on remedial English classes, skippy. Do you mean "Skis"?





--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Hey Nomen,
You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Or do you just
enjoy being abusive? So far today, you've been so to two separate
posters who offered reasonable opinions to Topic-Mimara.

His stated needs we

- between 25 and 40 feet
- It will be used to travel up and down a river that feeds into the ocean
- aft-cabin
- not need much in the way of major mechanical or structural work,
- a maximum price of $11,000.00

Now, there are numerous 25'-27' boats that fit this criteria, but since the name of this newsgroup is rec.boats.cruising, not rec.boats.daysailing, I think it was a reasonable assumption that we're not talking about a MacGregor 25 here. I/we could be wrong here, but that doesn't invalidate the reasonableness of the assumption. The very fact that his range is so broad (25'-40') seems to indicate that he is at the very beginning of the learning curve. This is certainly no crime, we have all been there, even if it was 30 or 40 years ago as is the case with you and I. But it does indicate that he has a lot of learning to do in order to determine what his needs are before he should start thinking of specific makes and models (the advise he asked for).

We've all known a number of people who jumped into boating by purchasing
a largish boat that was more than they could handle or maintain, turning
them off to boating forever. We've also known people who purchased
boats that were cheap but that needed lots or work only to find that the
cost in terms of time, skill and money was beyond their capability to
supply, again resulting in a miserable and often costly experience. The
two people you lambasted expressed concern that this might happen to the
original poster and suggested he may be better advised to set his
initial sights a little lower. Paul suggested that he do some research
on boating and gave him some good links to start with. Rufus suggested
that he actually get some experience on others boats. Both good
suggestions in my opinion.

You obviously do not share these opinions and chose to express your
disagreement by slinging abuse their way. If all those at your marina
are as unreasonable and unpleasant as you, I probably wouldn't last very
long there either.

I've no doubt that you'll offer up another ration of abuse as a result
of this post, so fire away. I'm a big guy and the fact that an asshole
doesn't like me isn't something that will cause me to loose any sleep.

Nomen Nescio wrote:

you're too lazy, and too self-righteous...So why don't you get off your lazy ass...where there are morons like you...your useless two cents worth,,,You and your kind wouldn't last ten minutes around my marina


You should have spent some of that money...on remedial English classes, skippy. Do you mean "Skis"?





--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Hmm, it seems that Nomen posts through an anonymous remailer and Ante Topic
Mimara does too.

I believe that we are witness to an entirely new level of troll. Sort of
like troll 2.0.

I will admit that my research is shaky but unless someone has the time to
dig in further I would suggest we simply don't feed them anymore.

Pretty interesting though.

"Daniel E. Best" wrote in message
news:JJCub.180422$mZ5.1296780@attbi_s54...
Hey Nomen,
You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Or do you just
enjoy being abusive? So far today, you've been so to two separate
posters who offered reasonable opinions to Topic-Mimara.

His stated needs we

- between 25 and 40 feet
- It will be used to travel up and down a river that feeds into the ocean
- aft-cabin
- not need much in the way of major mechanical or structural work,
- a maximum price of $11,000.00

Now, there are numerous 25'-27' boats that fit this criteria, but since
the name of this newsgroup is rec.boats.cruising, not rec.boats.daysailing,
I think it was a reasonable assumption that we're not talking about a
MacGregor 25 here. I/we could be wrong here, but that doesn't invalidate
the reasonableness of the assumption. The very fact that his range is so
broad (25'-40') seems to indicate that he is at the very beginning of the
learning curve. This is certainly no crime, we have all been there, even if
it was 30 or 40 years ago as is the case with you and I. But it does
indicate that he has a lot of learning to do in order to determine what his
needs are before he should start thinking of specific makes and models (the
advise he asked for).

We've all known a number of people who jumped into boating by purchasing
a largish boat that was more than they could handle or maintain, turning
them off to boating forever. We've also known people who purchased
boats that were cheap but that needed lots or work only to find that the
cost in terms of time, skill and money was beyond their capability to
supply, again resulting in a miserable and often costly experience. The
two people you lambasted expressed concern that this might happen to the
original poster and suggested he may be better advised to set his
initial sights a little lower. Paul suggested that he do some research
on boating and gave him some good links to start with. Rufus suggested
that he actually get some experience on others boats. Both good
suggestions in my opinion.

You obviously do not share these opinions and chose to express your
disagreement by slinging abuse their way. If all those at your marina
are as unreasonable and unpleasant as you, I probably wouldn't last very
long there either.

I've no doubt that you'll offer up another ration of abuse as a result
of this post, so fire away. I'm a big guy and the fact that an asshole
doesn't like me isn't something that will cause me to loose any sleep.

Nomen Nescio wrote:

you're too lazy, and too self-righteous...So why don't you get off your
lazy ass...where there are morons like you...your useless two cents
worth,,,You and your kind wouldn't last ten minutes around my marina


You should have spent some of that money...on remedial English classes,
skippy. Do you mean "Skis"?





--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Hmm, it seems that Nomen posts through an anonymous remailer and Ante Topic
Mimara does too.

I believe that we are witness to an entirely new level of troll. Sort of
like troll 2.0.

I will admit that my research is shaky but unless someone has the time to
dig in further I would suggest we simply don't feed them anymore.

Pretty interesting though.

"Daniel E. Best" wrote in message
news:JJCub.180422$mZ5.1296780@attbi_s54...
Hey Nomen,
You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Or do you just
enjoy being abusive? So far today, you've been so to two separate
posters who offered reasonable opinions to Topic-Mimara.

His stated needs we

- between 25 and 40 feet
- It will be used to travel up and down a river that feeds into the ocean
- aft-cabin
- not need much in the way of major mechanical or structural work,
- a maximum price of $11,000.00

Now, there are numerous 25'-27' boats that fit this criteria, but since
the name of this newsgroup is rec.boats.cruising, not rec.boats.daysailing,
I think it was a reasonable assumption that we're not talking about a
MacGregor 25 here. I/we could be wrong here, but that doesn't invalidate
the reasonableness of the assumption. The very fact that his range is so
broad (25'-40') seems to indicate that he is at the very beginning of the
learning curve. This is certainly no crime, we have all been there, even if
it was 30 or 40 years ago as is the case with you and I. But it does
indicate that he has a lot of learning to do in order to determine what his
needs are before he should start thinking of specific makes and models (the
advise he asked for).

We've all known a number of people who jumped into boating by purchasing
a largish boat that was more than they could handle or maintain, turning
them off to boating forever. We've also known people who purchased
boats that were cheap but that needed lots or work only to find that the
cost in terms of time, skill and money was beyond their capability to
supply, again resulting in a miserable and often costly experience. The
two people you lambasted expressed concern that this might happen to the
original poster and suggested he may be better advised to set his
initial sights a little lower. Paul suggested that he do some research
on boating and gave him some good links to start with. Rufus suggested
that he actually get some experience on others boats. Both good
suggestions in my opinion.

You obviously do not share these opinions and chose to express your
disagreement by slinging abuse their way. If all those at your marina
are as unreasonable and unpleasant as you, I probably wouldn't last very
long there either.

I've no doubt that you'll offer up another ration of abuse as a result
of this post, so fire away. I'm a big guy and the fact that an asshole
doesn't like me isn't something that will cause me to loose any sleep.

Nomen Nescio wrote:

you're too lazy, and too self-righteous...So why don't you get off your
lazy ass...where there are morons like you...your useless two cents
worth,,,You and your kind wouldn't last ten minutes around my marina


You should have spent some of that money...on remedial English classes,
skippy. Do you mean "Skis"?





--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Ante Topic Mimara wrote:

Skip Gundlach writes:


While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.



You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.


I see we all got off on the wrong foot. Let's try again.....

From what I recall in the thread, you and your (wife?) are completely
new to boating, are looking a powerboat with an aft cabin for under
$11k, are on some narrow river you want to cruise up and down, and may
sometimes go on the ocean. That's more than we knew at first, but still
not enough to give you useful information.

If you tell us more of what, where and who you are, we can help you
better. For instance, which river (we may know it) and how far up and
down it you want to go, what you want to do at first (stop at marinas,
cruise in little side creeks, just be on the water....) how often you'll
be staying onboard overnight, and anything else you feel comfortable
saying about your dream. The more we know, the better job we can do.

You see, we all probably have had friends that have been in your
position, that got a boat and immediately "ran" before they knew how to
walk. Most times, the mishaps were merely amusing afterwards; some were
potentially dangerous.

A friend of ours went out for his first sail with us and within 3 months
(no more experience), got a $6k boat of dubious condition (he overpaid)
and immediately went south towards the islands. Luckily, he had enough
minor mishaps early on that he learned to slow down and learn what he
was doing. He sure had a lot of funny "experience learned" stories when
he flew back from Florida 6 months later.... (We could do the same trip
in 3 weeks.)

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/