On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:18:38 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote:

I don't think you will get an extra punch in fwd. As I understand it
(and I may be wrong), the reason that you get more reverse is that the
prop paddles are not 'cupped' or angled like the fixed prop ones are,
but are flat. The cupping is for maximum performance in forward gear,
and it makes reverse less efficient. If you have a flat prop, then it
is equally good in both directions.

The MaxProp turns the blade when reversing, presenting the same
"forward" edge of the blades in both forward and reverse, thus
providing a very good thrust also in reverse since there is no
compromise between fwd and reverse efficiency in the blade design.

IMO, the only "better" prop than MaxProp is the Gori
folding-feathering (or what to call it), but that's even more
expensive.


/Marcus

--
Marcus AAkesson
Gothenburg Callsigns: SM6XFN & SB4779
Sweden
Keep the world clean - no HTML in news or mail !

The Luke is nice because its geometry is pretty much identical
to a fixed prop in fwd and rev. No poor performance in
rev like some feathering or folding props.

Doug

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:45:25 +0000, Jere Lull wrote:


Yes, they're expensive, but our 3 blade MaxProp is nearly as efficient
as a 2-blade Michigan Wheel, reverse is MUCH, MUCH better and we gain a
full knot under sail under many conditions. We got the one that can be
adjusted (out of the water), so it's slightly adjustable.




Well, for virtually 1/2 the price of the new engine, they'd better
walk
the dog, paint the boat, fix the head, give me sexual satisfaction and go
out and get beer and pizza afterwards!

I'm leaning towards a $500 fixed 3-blade now, either the Campbell
Sailor or the MI Wheel "Sailor" line.


The improvement in reverse alone may be worth the cost. I saw a 40'
Catalina try to back in about a month ago and its prop walk was the
worst I've seen in any boat. I think I could have done a bit better than
the renter (used to a smaller performance sailboat), but that's because
I've intentionally learned how to use walk and know when to punch it and
quickly slip into neutral.

Imagine having nearly full thrust in reverse if/when you run aground.
Being able to get off quickly might save enough of your energy for
everything else.

BTW, we paid about $2k for our MaxProp just over a year ago. A few
minutes after I paid for ours, I chatted with a Catalina 38 owner that
got the exact same prop (16" 3 blade). [That's the largest prop they'd
sell me; we could fit a 20" with our clearance and would have gotten one
if they'd let us -- I'm of the bigger-prop-is-better crowd.] The $1500
differential (possibly less with a Catalina 36) isn't 1/2 the price of
the new engine.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

I find it interesting that Florida has now made the 12th grade
"Optional". This seems to be an effort to dumb down our kids even further,
don't you think? So who do you blame for this??



Ron Thornton wrote:

Not to speak for Charlie, but my list would include:

1) Government at all levels - mainly the bureaucracy not always the
elected officials

2) A large segment of the citizens: undereducated, to lazy to do for
themselves, willing to let #1 above run their lives, etc., etc., etc..

Regards, Ron

So which prop do you think is best?

"Larry Demers" wrote in message
...
I find it interesting that Florida has now made the 12th grade
"Optional". This seems to be an effort to dumb down our kids even
further,
don't you think? So who do you blame for this??



Ron Thornton wrote:

Not to speak for Charlie, but my list would include:

1) Government at all levels - mainly the bureaucracy not always the
elected officials

2) A large segment of the citizens: undereducated, to lazy to do for
themselves, willing to let #1 above run their lives, etc., etc., etc..

Regards, Ron

Rosalie B. wrote:

I don't think you will get an extra punch in fwd. As I understand it
(and I may be wrong), the reason that you get more reverse is that the
prop paddles are not 'cupped' or angled like the fixed prop ones are,
but are flat. The cupping is for maximum performance in forward gear,
and it makes reverse less efficient. If you have a flat prop, then it
is equally good in both directions.

Agreement, from our experience. (Dang, I snipped my comment that our 16"
3-blade MaxProp was *nearly* as efficient as a 15" two-blade. Sorry.)

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Where do you get a MaxProp? Know any place in Canada? (I ask because

these days it costs $100 or so to get ANYTHING across the border!) I
searched the web and all I found was Property Managers. The "1/2 the price
of the engine" came from the quote I got for an AutoProp: $3K. And the
engine is about $6K (About $8500 CDN).


Another poster gave what I believe is a good site. Yell if that isn't
good enough

(BTW: I'm not really concerned with reverse - after nearly 15 yrs, I've
gotten used to Far Cove's propwalk and use it to my advantage. But extra
punch in fwd would be nice!)

I don't think you'll get better punch in forward unless you're switching
from 2 to 3 blades or to a larger diameter, as the MaxProp isn't
optimized for forward though it isn't horrible.

Performance in reverse is an amazing improvement though. You have to
experience it to believe the difference. We spin on our axis so easily
that we've never actually *needed* an authoritative reverse to get
unstuck, but we haven't needed to spin to get ungrounded since we
switched. ('Course, that could be because I've learned not to get as stuck.)

Our switch was from 15"x2 blade to 16"x3, so we can pull stumps if we
need to, and our reverse power is only slightly less than forward.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:

The Luke is nice because its geometry is pretty much identical
to a fixed prop in fwd and rev. No poor performance in
rev like some feathering or folding props.

I don't know what makes this so difficult for people to understand,
but feathering props are NOT poor performers in reverse. Quite the
opposite.

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
.. .
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:45:25 +0000, Jere Lull wrote:


Yes, they're expensive, but our 3 blade MaxProp is nearly as efficient
as a 2-blade Michigan Wheel, reverse is MUCH, MUCH better and we gain a
full knot under sail under many conditions. We got the one that can be
adjusted (out of the water), so it's slightly adjustable.




Well, for virtually 1/2 the price of the new engine, they'd better
walk
the dog, paint the boat, fix the head, give me sexual satisfaction and go
out and get beer and pizza afterwards!

I'm leaning towards a $500 fixed 3-blade now, either the Campbell
Sailor or the MI Wheel "Sailor" line.


The improvement in reverse alone may be worth the cost. I saw a 40'
Catalina try to back in about a month ago and its prop walk was the
worst I've seen in any boat. I think I could have done a bit better than
the renter (used to a smaller performance sailboat), but that's because
I've intentionally learned how to use walk and know when to punch it and
quickly slip into neutral.

Imagine having nearly full thrust in reverse if/when you run aground.
Being able to get off quickly might save enough of your energy for
everything else.

BTW, we paid about $2k for our MaxProp just over a year ago. A few
minutes after I paid for ours, I chatted with a Catalina 38 owner that
got the exact same prop (16" 3 blade). [That's the largest prop they'd
sell me; we could fit a 20" with our clearance and would have gotten one
if they'd let us -- I'm of the bigger-prop-is-better crowd.] The $1500
differential (possibly less with a Catalina 36) isn't 1/2 the price of
the new engine.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/



grandma Rosalie

Larry Demers wrote:

I find it interesting that Florida has now made the 12th grade
"Optional". This seems to be an effort to dumb down our kids even further,
don't you think? So who do you blame for this??

Dept of Education under Carter decided that the goal of the education
system should be to provide graduates the tool and skills to become
successful adults; so they funded a study to find out what successful
people had in common. The trouble began when the study came up empty
handed. Einstein wasn't a great financier, Trump didn't excell in
mathmatics, neither one excelled at sports or acting; and so on. The
only thing successful people had in common was high self esteem. Now it
may seem obvious to you and I that self esteem derives from success, not
vice versa, but having spent all that $$$ the pointy-headed researchers
had to provide *some* answer. Thus instilling high self esteem replaced
teaching as the goal of American education. Sammy'd rather play than
learn to read? Don't criticize him, it might hurt his self esteem. Is
the course material too demanding for the worst student? Make it easier.
Kids aren't learning anything? Doesn't matter, as long as they feel good
about themselves. So now we have a generation of ignorami who think they
know it all; and why not? That's all they've been taught.

What happens when they transfer to an old fashioned school? Well, the
jocks diss them cuz they're poor athletes, the nerds diss them cuz
they're poor scholors, and so on, even tho *they* know they're great.
After all that's what they've been told all their lives. It must be an
evil plot! Kill them all! And you have the Columbine massacre. Ooops,
sorry, I forgot. That's not PC and might even hurt somebody's self
esteem! Better blame guns or some other inanimate object.

Agreed. My Luke prop has the exact configuration of a fixed prop
when in fwd or rev. No degradation in reverse. Feathers well too.

Doug

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:

The Luke is nice because its geometry is pretty much identical
to a fixed prop in fwd and rev. No poor performance in
rev like some feathering or folding props.

I don't know what makes this so difficult for people to understand,
but feathering props are NOT poor performers in reverse. Quite the
opposite.

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
.. .
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:45:25 +0000, Jere Lull wrote:


Yes, they're expensive, but our 3 blade MaxProp is nearly as
efficient
as a 2-blade Michigan Wheel, reverse is MUCH, MUCH better and we gain
a
full knot under sail under many conditions. We got the one that can
be
adjusted (out of the water), so it's slightly adjustable.




Well, for virtually 1/2 the price of the new engine, they'd better
walk
the dog, paint the boat, fix the head, give me sexual satisfaction and
go
out and get beer and pizza afterwards!

I'm leaning towards a $500 fixed 3-blade now, either the Campbell
Sailor or the MI Wheel "Sailor" line.


The improvement in reverse alone may be worth the cost. I saw a 40'
Catalina try to back in about a month ago and its prop walk was the
worst I've seen in any boat. I think I could have done a bit better
than
the renter (used to a smaller performance sailboat), but that's because
I've intentionally learned how to use walk and know when to punch it
and
quickly slip into neutral.

Imagine having nearly full thrust in reverse if/when you run aground.
Being able to get off quickly might save enough of your energy for
everything else.

BTW, we paid about $2k for our MaxProp just over a year ago. A few
minutes after I paid for ours, I chatted with a Catalina 38 owner that
got the exact same prop (16" 3 blade). [That's the largest prop they'd
sell me; we could fit a 20" with our clearance and would have gotten
one
if they'd let us -- I'm of the bigger-prop-is-better crowd.] The $1500
differential (possibly less with a Catalina 36) isn't 1/2 the price of
the new engine.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/



grandma Rosalie

Rosalie B. wrote:

x-no-archive:yes "Doug Dotson" wrote:



The Luke is nice because its geometry is pretty much identical
to a fixed prop in fwd and rev. No poor performance in
rev like some feathering or folding props.



I don't know what makes this so difficult for people to understand,
but feathering props are NOT poor performers in reverse. Quite the
opposite.


They're probably confusing them with *folding* props, which have a bad
rep.... I believe all of the *feathering* ones improve reverse
substantially.

Having switched, I don't think I'll ever have a fixed prop again.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/