"Larry" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

There's much more to
battery construction than just chemistry.


I'll bite......Name them. Besides Lead and water and sulfuric acid,
there's plastic and rubber. What did I miss??

Lead-Acid batteries are good for about 300 cycles of no more than 50%
discharge of capacity. I sure hope you don't depend on them lasting 20
years.

Are you talking about the Series 5000 3-year-warranty?

"Failure within 36 months from the date placed in service yields FREE
REPLACEMENT, not including freight charges from the factory to the
applicable destination. After the first 36 months of service, defective
batteries will be adjusted for a period of up to 120 months prorated from
the date first in service at prices in effect at time of adjustment."

I don't see any 10 year warranty, here. 36 months...same as Interstate
for how-many-times as much money?

Oh, it also says:

"To claim a manufacturing warranty, proof of purchase must be presented,
showing the date of purchase and the battery's serial number. The battery
must be tested by an Authorized Battery Outlet for actual defect, and
upon confirmation of the defect, the warranty will be administered.

The Warranty does not cover shipping damage, cracked covers, cracked
cases, bulged cases from heat, freezing or explosion, discharged
batteries, the use of undersized batteries damaged from electrical
equipment. This warranty covers only manufacturing defects.

The Company makes no warranty with respect to its batteries other than
the warranty stated above. All implied warranties of merchantability and
all expressed and implied warranties of any other kind are hereby
excluded."

Notice how it carefully says it doesn't cover "discharged batteries"?
So, if I ship 'em a dead battery, that's not covered under the warranty??
If the battery weren't dead, why would I ship it to them in the first
place?? "This warranty covers ONLY manufacturing defects."

In other words, it doesn't cover sulphation, refusal to stay charged,
reduced AH capacity, or anything related to a 500AH battery that only has
100AH of capacity left next year....That's what it says.

Who's the "Authorized Battery Outlet" that going to do the testing for
the "actual defect" in, say, Belize or Acapulco, if it croaks while we're
cruising? "upon confirmation of the DEFECT, the warranty will be
administered." What if I don't find a Rolls "Authorized Battery Outlet"
in Belize? What if he refuses to come to the boat for "testing"? What
will he charge for that? I doubt, "Hello, Rolls? I'm in Belize and the
damned thing won't stay charged until morning! I paid $1250 for this
thing 2 years and 10 months ago. Send me another one!", is gonna make it
happen. Do you?

If you think Rolls is going to send you another $800 battery in 2010 when
yours is worn out, you are in for a shock!

I must admit, however, the red plastic will look more impressive in the
lazerette than the golf cart batteries.....(c;

I also wanna know what those bolts that hold the cells together in that
acid bath are made out of, inside the pretty case. The ears must be
lead. Are the bolts lead, too? Anything else just makes another battery
with the ears. Don't they rust solid in a year or two? Anyone have
corrosion problems between cells where the plates meet under the bolts?

You note the 36 month full-replacement, then completely ignore the 120 month
additional pro-rated warranty. I don't know of any other company that offers
anything comparable. If I purchase the battery and place it in service, and
it fails for a manufacturing defect by 2010, yes -- I do expect a brand new
battery, and Rolls Surrette has a stellar reputation.

Regarding the differences in batteries "besides chemistry": Thickness and
composition of plates; thicker is better than thinner, solid is better than
composite. Insulation materials also matter; thicker is better than thinner,
rubber is better than cardboard, etc. etc.

I will readily admit that most of my battery problems over the years have
been user error; I didn't know enough about them, and didn't care to know
much. But I've had more than a couple of batteries fail after 18 months or
so, not through improper maintenance but because of cells going bad (a
manufacturing defect), where the most I could expect from the warranty is a
pro-rated replacement that knocks about 24-30% off the price of the new
battery.

I currently have one very good 115 ah battery which I purchased last spring,
kept up under (if I do say so myself) impeccible maintenance, which has
already begun to show a decline in capacity. Not much -- it will probably
last at least two more seasons without worry. But its capacity isn't close
to what I need. I can't just add another new battery or two into the
equation, as they will be newer than the old one and that will cause
problems down the road.

Since I have resigned myself to needing to buy new batteries anyway, I have
a choice: Three group 31's which will give me about 375 ah, my goal, or one
12MD-375. The Rolls will cost twice as much, but it will be a bit smaller
and last at least twice as long. It will be under pro-rated warranty even
after six years. To me, it just makes sense. Obviously you disagree. But you
have your boat and I have mine. :-)

Karin

"KLC Lewis" wrote in
:

You note the 36 month full-replacement, then completely ignore the 120
month additional pro-rated warranty. I don't know of any other company
that offers anything comparable. If I purchase the battery and place
it in service, and it fails for a manufacturing defect by 2010, yes --
I do expect a brand new battery, and Rolls Surrette has a stellar
reputation.



But, it means nothing, no matter if it were 50 years. Batteries SULPHATE
and wear out and that is SPECIFICALLY NOT COVERED on Rolls' warranty
page. They are NOT waranteeing it to charge to any level for even 3
years. The warranty ONLY covers "manufacturing defects", absolving them
of any responsibility caused by use and chemistry.

If they choose not to hold to this warranty to make a customer happy,
that's just fine....but, they are NOT responsible if they hold to the
warranty definitions.

Rolls has some fantastic information on this website, other than sales
hype and warranty info. Click on SITE MAP then look for "Bulletins".
Click Bulletins and a whole wonderful, very realistic and correct set of
bulletins every boater should read, especially those contemplating those
Gelcells or AGM "sealed" batteries! Rolls' procedures and information on
Equalization...that DOESN'T require, by the way, purchasing some $3000
supercharger to accomplish...is first class. Their information on plate
sulphation and its cure only lacks information about unrecoverable
sulphate that has fallen off the plates in solid form, to make it
perfect. These "bulletins" are great information, but a little hard to
read as the whole website runs on java scripts over a goofy background
the scripts here show as transparent on a big LCD monitor.

You can't download the javascript based bulletins, but it will let you
copy/paste the text to Notepad for printing and storage for future
reference.



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"Larry" wrote in message
...
But, it means nothing, no matter if it were 50 years. Batteries SULPHATE
and wear out and that is SPECIFICALLY NOT COVERED on Rolls' warranty
page. They are NOT waranteeing it to charge to any level for even 3
years. The warranty ONLY covers "manufacturing defects", absolving them
of any responsibility caused by use and chemistry.

If they choose not to hold to this warranty to make a customer happy,
that's just fine....but, they are NOT responsible if they hold to the
warranty definitions.


They cannot guarantee that a battery will continue to operate without proper
charging and maintenance, that is agreed. If an owner mistreats even a Rolls
battery it could conceivably fail within three years, and Rolls might well
decide not to honor the warranty. However, this situation would be
definitively determined by examination by a qualified battery tech;
batteries don't develop level 3 (unrecoverable) or even level 2 (recoverable
but difficult) sulfate under proper care. If under examination it is shown
that the battery failed despite your best and proper care, they will make it
right. And to maintain their rep, as you noted, they may even replace a
mistreated one.

So given proper care, we are left with a battery that has a reliable
lifespan, based upon its chemistry and construction, of 7-15 years in
real-world use. That is what I am looking for. A battery with a long
lifespan given proper care. Not a "toss it after every season" battery which
could very well fail because of mechanical defects during that year. Rolls
fits the bill to a "T." YMMV.

Karin

"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

Rolls
fits the bill to a "T." YMMV.


It's your money....(c;

--
http://www.epic.org/privacy/rfid/verichip.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeriChip
http://www.verichipcorp.com/
Tracked like a dog, every license/product/tax.
Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor,
free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their
foreheads:
17 and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the
name of the beast, or the number of his name...

Larry wrote:
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

Rolls
fits the bill to a "T." YMMV.


It's your money....(c;

.... or at least it used to be.

I have a Dodge PU with a Cummins. It requires 2 batteries to heat the
preheat plate and to crank it. 30 deg weather and it cranked real slow.
Took it to Wallyworld where I purchased the batts 2 years ago and they
never even checked them. Replaced and said your 3 year warranty just
restarted! No charge. I was impressed!
Of course, sometimes it doesn't take much to impress me!
Gordon