I found this information in a e-book called "Batteries in a Portable
World" by Buchmann. In our ongoing watered golf cart vs. expensive
maintenance-free gauze battery discussion, there are some very revealing
facts the author points out that I'm sure the battery sales people
wouldn't want you to look at too closely...

Sorry for the wordwrapping nonsense I can't seem to stop....

It says:

"The Lead Acid Battery
Invented by the French physician Gaston Planté in 1859, lead acid was the
first rechargeable battery for commercial use. Today, the flooded lead
acid
battery is used in automobiles, forklifts and large uninterruptible power
supply (UPS) systems.
During the mid 1970s, researchers developed a maintenance-free lead acid
battery, which could operate in any position. The liquid electrolyte was
transformed into moistened separators and the enclosure was sealed.
Safety
valves were added to allow venting of gas during charge and discharge.
Driven by diverse applications, two
designations of batteries emerged.
They are the sealed lead acid (SLA),
also known under the brand name of
Gelcell, and the valve regulated lead
acid (VRLA). Technically, both
batteries are the same. No scientific
definition exists as to when an SLA
becomes a VRLA. (Engineers may
argue that the word ‘sealed lead acid’ is a misnomer because no lead acid
battery can be totally sealed. In essence, all are valve regulated.)
The SLA has a typical capacity range of 0.2Ah to 30Ah and powers portable
and wheeled applications. Typical uses are personal UPS units for PC
backup,
small emergency lighting units, ventilators for health care patients and
wheelchairs. Because of low cost, dependable service and minimal
maintenance requirements, the SLA battery is the preferred choice for
biomedical and health care instruments in hospitals and retirement homes.
The VRLA battery is generally used for stationary applications. Their
capacities range from 30Ah to several thousand Ah and are found in larger
UPS systems for power backup. Typical uses are mobile phone repeaters,
cable distribution centers, Internet hubs and utilities, as well as power
backup
for banks, hospitals, airports and military installations.
Unlike the flooded lead acid battery, both the SLA and VRLA are designed
with a low over-voltage potential to prohibit the battery from reaching
its
gas-generating potential during charge. Excess charging would cause
gassing
and water depletion. Consequently, the SLA and VRLA can never be charged
to their full potential.
Among modern rechargeable batteries, the lead acid battery family has the
lowest energy density. For the purpose of analysis, we use the term
‘sealed
lead acid’ to describe the lead acid batteries for portable use and
‘valve
regulated lead acid’ for stationary applications. Because of our focus on
portable batteries, we focus mainly on the SLA.
The SLA is not subject to memory.
Leaving the battery on float charge for a
prolonged time does not cause damage.
The battery’s charge retention is best
among rechargeable batteries. Whereas the
NiCd self-discharges approximately
40 percent of its stored energy in three
months, the SLA self-discharges the same
amount in one year. The SLA is relatively inexpensive to purchase but the
operational costs can be more expensive than the NiCd if full cycles are
required on a repetitive basis.
The SLA does not lend itself to fast charging — typical charge times are
8 to 16 hours. The SLA must always be stored in a charged state. Leaving
the
battery in a discharged condition causes sulfation, a condition that
makes the
battery difficult, if not impossible, to recharge.
Unlike the NiCd, the SLA does not like deep cycling. A full discharge
causes
extra strain and each discharge/charge cycle robs the battery of a small
amount of capacity. This loss is very small while the battery is in good
operating condition, but becomes more acute once the performance drops
below 80 percent of its nominal capacity. This wear-down characteristic
also
applies to other battery chemistries in varying degrees. To prevent the
battery
from being stressed through repetitive deep discharge, a larger SLA
battery is
recommended.
Depending on the depth of discharge and operating temperature, the SLA
provides 200 to 300 discharge/charge cycles. The primary reason for its
relatively short cycle life is grid corrosion of the positive electrode,
depletion
of the active material and expansion of the positive plates. These
changes are
most prevalent at higher operating temperatures. Applying
charge/discharge
cycles does not prevent or reverse the trend.
There are some methods that improve the performance and prolong the life
of
the SLA. The optimum operating temperature for a VRLA battery is 25°C
(77°F). As a rule of thumb, every 8°C (15°F) rise in temperature will cut
the
battery life in half. VRLA that would last for 10 years at 25°C would
only be
good for 5 years if operated at 33°C (95°F). The same battery would
endure a
little more than one year at a temperature of 42°C (107°F).
The SLA has a relatively low energy density compared with other
rechargeable batteries, making it unsuitable for handheld devices that
demand
compact size. In addition, performance at low temperatures is greatly
reduced.
The SLA is rated at a 5-hour discharge or 0.2C. Some batteries are even
rated
at a slow 20 hour discharge. Longer discharge times produce higher
capacity
readings. The SLA performs well on high pulse currents. During these
pulses,
discharge rates well in excess of 1C can be drawn.
In terms of disposal, the SLA is less harmful than the NiCd battery but
the
high lead content makes the SLA environmentally unfriendly. Ninety
percent
of lead acid-based batteries are being recycled."

Most interesting....
No wonder they last longer up north where it's colder than here in the
tropics....contrary to the idea of pulling them out of the boat and
putting them in a warm place all winter... Looks like they're better off
in the boat under the snow!

Larry,

How would you count a charge / discharge cycle according to this article?
When I use my two paralleled AGM's to start my little 15 hp diesel, is that
a cycle? I don't see how it could be since I sail nearly every day during
the summer and my batteries ought to be nearly dead now. If the battery is
good for 200 cycles and my draw down is only 10% (In reality, it's probably
less than that since my engine lights of almost as quickly as a good car
engine) can I expect to get closer to 2000 charging cycles?

I feel even better about leaving my batteries in the boat now. Thanks for
the article.

--
Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
Larry,

How would you count a charge / discharge cycle according to this
article? When I use my two paralleled AGM's to start my little 15 hp
diesel, is that a cycle? I don't see how it could be since I sail
nearly every day during the summer and my batteries ought to be nearly
dead now. If the battery is good for 200 cycles and my draw down is
only 10% (In reality, it's probably less than that since my engine
lights of almost as quickly as a good car engine) can I expect to get
closer to 2000 charging cycles?

I feel even better about leaving my batteries in the boat now. Thanks
for the article.


Roger, starting a 15 hp diesel probably takes less than 80 amps for 20
seconds. This is less than half an amp-hour, probably less than one
percent of the battery's capacity. Mere noise in charge/discharge cycle
space.

Chuck

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"Roger Long" wrote in
:

How would you count a charge / discharge cycle according to this
article? When I use my two paralleled AGM's to start my little 15 hp
diesel, is that a cycle? I don't see how it could be since I sail
nearly every day during the summer and my batteries ought to be nearly
dead now. If the battery is good for 200 cycles and my draw down is
only 10% (In reality, it's probably less than that since my engine
lights of almost as quickly as a good car engine) can I expect to get
closer to 2000 charging cycles?



I believe he was referring to drawing down the battery in a deep
discharge cycle, not just a burst of starter current. Hell, we'd have to
put 4 batteries a year in my car if that were so...(c;

A good diesel fires on the 2nd TDC it rolls over. When Dan had the old
Hatteras 56, I told him I'd be afraid to jack over the 8v92TAs by hand as
they would probably start as soon as something moved. Both those engines
you just touched the starter and they popped up running...2-strokes,
gotta love 'em.

I think the 300 real cycles, using the batteries for lights and loads,
then recharging them properly to full charge SLOWLY is quite realistic
for lead acid AGMs or Gelcells. I just spent $70 putting 2 new 12AH AGMs
in my dock scooter. It's like driving a hot rod! Even at full throttle,
the status light stays green as soon as it comes up to speed. The acid
soaked gauze gets used up in about 200 cycles in the scooter....less than
a year the way I use it all summer.

There were very important graphs to study in this report that boaters
need to see, especially about charging....

I found the book for free on his website:
http://www.buchmann.ca/toc.asp

In figure 4-3 on pdf page 61, notice how the 3-stage charging is measured
in HOURS, not running the diesel for 30 minutes like boaters dream of.
Notice how the current drops very rapidly near the start of the charge,
not when the charge is near complete. My assertion of why it's stupid to
put a 140 amp alternator on a little sailboat diesel is obvious.

The accompanying text:
"A multi-stage charger applies constant-current charge, topping charge
and float
charge (see Figure 4-3). During the constant current charge, the battery
charges
to 70 percent in about five hours; the remaining 30 percent is completed
by the
slow topping charge. The topping charge lasts another five hours and is
essential
for the well-being of the battery. This can be compared to a little rest
after a
good meal before resuming work. If the battery is not completely
saturated, the
SLA will eventually lose its ability to accept a full charge and the
performance
of the battery is reduced. The third stage is the float charge, which
compensates
for the self-discharge after the battery has been fully charged."

See the time in HOURS, not MINUTES? He's especially talking about AGM
and Gelcell batteries boaters think are superbatteries because of the
awful prices. So, you're looking at charging them for several hours, not
just when the charging voltage pops up as is so often the case in a boat
trying to get that diesel shut down ASAP...shortening battery life in the
process by first overcharging, then not giving the chemistry TIME to
charge the cells. To quote the text, again:

"The charge algorithm for lead acid batteries differs from nickel-based
chemistry
in that voltage limiting rather than current limiting is used. Charge
time of a
sealed lead acid (SLA) is 12 to 16 hours. With higher charge currents and
multi-stage charge methods, charge time can be reduced to 10 hours or
less.
SLAs cannot be fully charged as quickly as nickel-based systems."

10 HOURS, not 30 minutes. Most sailboat captains would have a heart
attack....(c;

Of course, if you're headed back to the dock to plug in the little 10A
chargers...or a mooring with big solar panels or wind charger...that's
exactly what happens...HOURS.

I still prefer liquid electrolyte to gells and wicks. I can charge them
to a full charge and replace any electrolyte that vents. I can also
adjust their specific gravity to balance the cells over time to maximize
life. "Maintenance Free" just means you can't help them, once they start
down.



Larry
--
Why is it, in any city, all traffic lights act as if they have rotary
timers in them, like they did in 1955, and are all set to create
maximum inconvenience and block traffic movement, entirely?

The battery power required to start the engine raises a question for me. I
have a Universal 18 in my boat. I have not tried to manually crank it by
attaching a handle to the crank shaft, but I have been told that it can be
done by hammering a wrench socket onto the shaft, and cranking it with a
ratchet. It seems like this would be a good way to conserve battery power
if there were a non-destructive way to manually crank the engine. Is there
some sort of racheted, removable socket that would fit on the shaft to
enable a manual crank, sort of like automobile crank handles at the turn of
the century? A little elbow grease might save a tree in the long run.


"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote in
:

How would you count a charge / discharge cycle according to this
article? When I use my two paralleled AGM's to start my little 15 hp
diesel, is that a cycle? I don't see how it could be since I sail
nearly every day during the summer and my batteries ought to be nearly
dead now. If the battery is good for 200 cycles and my draw down is
only 10% (In reality, it's probably less than that since my engine
lights of almost as quickly as a good car engine) can I expect to get
closer to 2000 charging cycles?



I believe he was referring to drawing down the battery in a deep
discharge cycle, not just a burst of starter current. Hell, we'd have to
put 4 batteries a year in my car if that were so...(c;

A good diesel fires on the 2nd TDC it rolls over. When Dan had the old
Hatteras 56, I told him I'd be afraid to jack over the 8v92TAs by hand as
they would probably start as soon as something moved. Both those engines
you just touched the starter and they popped up running...2-strokes,
gotta love 'em.

I think the 300 real cycles, using the batteries for lights and loads,
then recharging them properly to full charge SLOWLY is quite realistic
for lead acid AGMs or Gelcells. I just spent $70 putting 2 new 12AH AGMs
in my dock scooter. It's like driving a hot rod! Even at full throttle,
the status light stays green as soon as it comes up to speed. The acid
soaked gauze gets used up in about 200 cycles in the scooter....less than
a year the way I use it all summer.

There were very important graphs to study in this report that boaters
need to see, especially about charging....

I found the book for free on his website:
http://www.buchmann.ca/toc.asp

In figure 4-3 on pdf page 61, notice how the 3-stage charging is measured
in HOURS, not running the diesel for 30 minutes like boaters dream of.
Notice how the current drops very rapidly near the start of the charge,
not when the charge is near complete. My assertion of why it's stupid to
put a 140 amp alternator on a little sailboat diesel is obvious.

The accompanying text:
"A multi-stage charger applies constant-current charge, topping charge
and float
charge (see Figure 4-3). During the constant current charge, the battery
charges
to 70 percent in about five hours; the remaining 30 percent is completed
by the
slow topping charge. The topping charge lasts another five hours and is
essential
for the well-being of the battery. This can be compared to a little rest
after a
good meal before resuming work. If the battery is not completely
saturated, the
SLA will eventually lose its ability to accept a full charge and the
performance
of the battery is reduced. The third stage is the float charge, which
compensates
for the self-discharge after the battery has been fully charged."

See the time in HOURS, not MINUTES? He's especially talking about AGM
and Gelcell batteries boaters think are superbatteries because of the
awful prices. So, you're looking at charging them for several hours, not
just when the charging voltage pops up as is so often the case in a boat
trying to get that diesel shut down ASAP...shortening battery life in the
process by first overcharging, then not giving the chemistry TIME to
charge the cells. To quote the text, again:

"The charge algorithm for lead acid batteries differs from nickel-based
chemistry
in that voltage limiting rather than current limiting is used. Charge
time of a
sealed lead acid (SLA) is 12 to 16 hours. With higher charge currents and
multi-stage charge methods, charge time can be reduced to 10 hours or
less.
SLAs cannot be fully charged as quickly as nickel-based systems."

10 HOURS, not 30 minutes. Most sailboat captains would have a heart
attack....(c;

Of course, if you're headed back to the dock to plug in the little 10A
chargers...or a mooring with big solar panels or wind charger...that's
exactly what happens...HOURS.

I still prefer liquid electrolyte to gells and wicks. I can charge them
to a full charge and replace any electrolyte that vents. I can also
adjust their specific gravity to balance the cells over time to maximize
life. "Maintenance Free" just means you can't help them, once they start
down.



Larry
--
Why is it, in any city, all traffic lights act as if they have rotary
timers in them, like they did in 1955, and are all set to create
maximum inconvenience and block traffic movement, entirely?

Larry wrote:
Snip

In figure 4-3 on pdf page 61, notice how the 3-stage charging is measured
in HOURS, not running the diesel for 30 minutes like boaters dream of.
Notice how the current drops very rapidly near the start of the charge,
not when the charge is near complete. My assertion of why it's stupid to
put a 140 amp alternator on a little sailboat diesel is obvious.

Snip

In fairness, typical automotive chargers are not rated for use with the
aggressive, constant-current charging cycles used in popular marine
"smart chargers". Replacing the stock alternator with a higher-rated
one when switching to a smart charger is not a bad idea, providing
engine, pulleys, and belts are also willing.

I agree that 30 minutes is not going to restore 50% of capacity on 200
Ah deep-cycle lead acid batteries. With a 140 amp alternator, gasses,
venting, etc., permitting, it would take more than an hour. Hard to
generalize, but with an adequate alternator, belt, engine speed and
charger, it is heat and gassing that ultimately limit the rate at which
you can jam amp-hours into a storage battery, and the better smart
chargers monitor terminal temperature and fold back current to try to
keep things intact. Haven't heard many horror stories of smart chargers
destroying batteries.

Remember too, even though you recover most of the lost charge quickly
through constant-current charging, that last 10-15% is what will take
hours to accomplish under typical voltage-limited charging, even with
smart chargers. So the author quoted is perhaps overconcise in his
statements.

Don't sell the smart chargers too short, Larry! ;-)

Chuck

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Very interesting thoughts about batteries, it took me several years of
observations to reach a similar conclusion.

What I miss is more concrete conclusions about who (manufacturers) is doing
what, based on what you say and what I observed. What would be the best
brand under tropical cruising conditions?

Because all of us would not have enough time in our life to experiment all
brands of batteries available on the market place. I would suggest to
express individual experiences.
Would it be a good idea?

based in the Caribbean sea.



"Larry" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
I found this information in a e-book called "Batteries in a Portable
World" by Buchmann. In our ongoing watered golf cart vs. expensive
maintenance-free gauze battery discussion, there are some very revealing
facts the author points out that I'm sure the battery sales people
wouldn't want you to look at too closely...

Sorry for the wordwrapping nonsense I can't seem to stop....

It says:

"The Lead Acid Battery
Invented by the French physician Gaston Planté in 1859, lead acid was the
first rechargeable battery for commercial use. Today, the flooded lead
acid
battery is used in automobiles, forklifts and large uninterruptible power
supply (UPS) systems.
During the mid 1970s, researchers developed a maintenance-free lead acid
battery, which could operate in any position. The liquid electrolyte was
transformed into moistened separators and the enclosure was sealed.
Safety
valves were added to allow venting of gas during charge and discharge.
Driven by diverse applications, two
designations of batteries emerged.
They are the sealed lead acid (SLA),
also known under the brand name of
Gelcell, and the valve regulated lead
acid (VRLA). Technically, both
batteries are the same. No scientific
definition exists as to when an SLA
becomes a VRLA. (Engineers may
argue that the word 'sealed lead acid' is a misnomer because no lead acid
battery can be totally sealed. In essence, all are valve regulated.)
The SLA has a typical capacity range of 0.2Ah to 30Ah and powers portable
and wheeled applications. Typical uses are personal UPS units for PC
backup,
small emergency lighting units, ventilators for health care patients and
wheelchairs. Because of low cost, dependable service and minimal
maintenance requirements, the SLA battery is the preferred choice for
biomedical and health care instruments in hospitals and retirement homes.
The VRLA battery is generally used for stationary applications. Their
capacities range from 30Ah to several thousand Ah and are found in larger
UPS systems for power backup. Typical uses are mobile phone repeaters,
cable distribution centers, Internet hubs and utilities, as well as power
backup
for banks, hospitals, airports and military installations.
Unlike the flooded lead acid battery, both the SLA and VRLA are designed
with a low over-voltage potential to prohibit the battery from reaching
its
gas-generating potential during charge. Excess charging would cause
gassing
and water depletion. Consequently, the SLA and VRLA can never be charged
to their full potential.
Among modern rechargeable batteries, the lead acid battery family has the
lowest energy density. For the purpose of analysis, we use the term
'sealed
lead acid' to describe the lead acid batteries for portable use and
'valve
regulated lead acid' for stationary applications. Because of our focus on
portable batteries, we focus mainly on the SLA.
The SLA is not subject to memory.
Leaving the battery on float charge for a
prolonged time does not cause damage.
The battery's charge retention is best
among rechargeable batteries. Whereas the
NiCd self-discharges approximately
40 percent of its stored energy in three
months, the SLA self-discharges the same
amount in one year. The SLA is relatively inexpensive to purchase but the
operational costs can be more expensive than the NiCd if full cycles are
required on a repetitive basis.
The SLA does not lend itself to fast charging - typical charge times are
8 to 16 hours. The SLA must always be stored in a charged state. Leaving
the
battery in a discharged condition causes sulfation, a condition that
makes the
battery difficult, if not impossible, to recharge.
Unlike the NiCd, the SLA does not like deep cycling. A full discharge
causes
extra strain and each discharge/charge cycle robs the battery of a small
amount of capacity. This loss is very small while the battery is in good
operating condition, but becomes more acute once the performance drops
below 80 percent of its nominal capacity. This wear-down characteristic
also
applies to other battery chemistries in varying degrees. To prevent the
battery
from being stressed through repetitive deep discharge, a larger SLA
battery is
recommended.
Depending on the depth of discharge and operating temperature, the SLA
provides 200 to 300 discharge/charge cycles. The primary reason for its
relatively short cycle life is grid corrosion of the positive electrode,
depletion
of the active material and expansion of the positive plates. These
changes are
most prevalent at higher operating temperatures. Applying
charge/discharge
cycles does not prevent or reverse the trend.
There are some methods that improve the performance and prolong the life
of
the SLA. The optimum operating temperature for a VRLA battery is 25°C
(77°F). As a rule of thumb, every 8°C (15°F) rise in temperature will cut
the
battery life in half. VRLA that would last for 10 years at 25°C would
only be
good for 5 years if operated at 33°C (95°F). The same battery would
endure a
little more than one year at a temperature of 42°C (107°F).
The SLA has a relatively low energy density compared with other
rechargeable batteries, making it unsuitable for handheld devices that
demand
compact size. In addition, performance at low temperatures is greatly
reduced.
The SLA is rated at a 5-hour discharge or 0.2C. Some batteries are even
rated
at a slow 20 hour discharge. Longer discharge times produce higher
capacity
readings. The SLA performs well on high pulse currents. During these
pulses,
discharge rates well in excess of 1C can be drawn.
In terms of disposal, the SLA is less harmful than the NiCd battery but
the
high lead content makes the SLA environmentally unfriendly. Ninety
percent
of lead acid-based batteries are being recycled."

Most interesting....
No wonder they last longer up north where it's colder than here in the
tropics....contrary to the idea of pulling them out of the boat and
putting them in a warm place all winter... Looks like they're better off
in the boat under the snow!

"roger lothoz" wrote in
:

Because all of us would not have enough time in our life to experiment
all brands of batteries available on the market place. I would suggest
to express individual experiences.
Would it be a good idea?



AS there is really no difference in the CHEMISTRY of the lead-acid battery,
does it really make any difference who makes the same ol' technology we've
always used?

I think not.

Sales hype and outrageous pricing doesn't change chemistry, much....not
that much.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"roger lothoz" wrote in
:

Because all of us would not have enough time in our life to experiment
all brands of batteries available on the market place. I would suggest
to express individual experiences.
Would it be a good idea?



AS there is really no difference in the CHEMISTRY of the lead-acid
battery,
does it really make any difference who makes the same ol' technology we've
always used?

I think not.

Sales hype and outrageous pricing doesn't change chemistry, much....not
that much.


I may come to regret the decision, but I have decided that, this spring,
Escapade will be outfitted with a Rolls 12MD-375M battery. Should a single
cell fail (unlikely), I can replace that cell. With proper maintenance, I
can expect a minimum of 10 years service, and as much as 20. It's warrantied
for at least 7 years. And its modular construction makes it so much easier
for me to install and/or remove for winter lay-up. There's much more to
battery construction than just chemistry.

Karin

"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

There's much more to
battery construction than just chemistry.


I'll bite......Name them. Besides Lead and water and sulfuric acid,
there's plastic and rubber. What did I miss??

Lead-Acid batteries are good for about 300 cycles of no more than 50%
discharge of capacity. I sure hope you don't depend on them lasting 20
years.

Are you talking about the Series 5000 3-year-warranty?

"Failure within 36 months from the date placed in service yields FREE
REPLACEMENT, not including freight charges from the factory to the
applicable destination. After the first 36 months of service, defective
batteries will be adjusted for a period of up to 120 months prorated from
the date first in service at prices in effect at time of adjustment."

I don't see any 10 year warranty, here. 36 months...same as Interstate
for how-many-times as much money?

Oh, it also says:

"To claim a manufacturing warranty, proof of purchase must be presented,
showing the date of purchase and the battery's serial number. The battery
must be tested by an Authorized Battery Outlet for actual defect, and
upon confirmation of the defect, the warranty will be administered.

The Warranty does not cover shipping damage, cracked covers, cracked
cases, bulged cases from heat, freezing or explosion, discharged
batteries, the use of undersized batteries damaged from electrical
equipment. This warranty covers only manufacturing defects.

The Company makes no warranty with respect to its batteries other than
the warranty stated above. All implied warranties of merchantability and
all expressed and implied warranties of any other kind are hereby
excluded."

Notice how it carefully says it doesn't cover "discharged batteries"?
So, if I ship 'em a dead battery, that's not covered under the warranty??
If the battery weren't dead, why would I ship it to them in the first
place?? "This warranty covers ONLY manufacturing defects."

In other words, it doesn't cover sulphation, refusal to stay charged,
reduced AH capacity, or anything related to a 500AH battery that only has
100AH of capacity left next year....That's what it says.

Who's the "Authorized Battery Outlet" that going to do the testing for
the "actual defect" in, say, Belize or Acapulco, if it croaks while we're
cruising? "upon confirmation of the DEFECT, the warranty will be
administered." What if I don't find a Rolls "Authorized Battery Outlet"
in Belize? What if he refuses to come to the boat for "testing"? What
will he charge for that? I doubt, "Hello, Rolls? I'm in Belize and the
damned thing won't stay charged until morning! I paid $1250 for this
thing 2 years and 10 months ago. Send me another one!", is gonna make it
happen. Do you?

If you think Rolls is going to send you another $800 battery in 2010 when
yours is worn out, you are in for a shock!

I must admit, however, the red plastic will look more impressive in the
lazerette than the golf cart batteries.....(c;

I also wanna know what those bolts that hold the cells together in that
acid bath are made out of, inside the pretty case. The ears must be
lead. Are the bolts lead, too? Anything else just makes another battery
with the ears. Don't they rust solid in a year or two? Anyone have
corrosion problems between cells where the plates meet under the bolts?