these are really nice, I always try to drain the bowl......


I've had several recommendations for the Raycor 500 series. Thanks.

As a primary filter (my engine has a built in fuel filter) to you use
the 2 micron or the 10 micron element? I would think that given the
size of my engine (Yanmar 2GM) I should just use 2 micron even though
its the primary filter.

--

Several years ago I repowered my prev boat with a Yanmar 3GM. A few
weeks later I received a notice from Mack Boring that use of a filter
smaller than 30 micron places stress on the lift pump and that use
of such a filter would void the warranty. I started using a 30 micro (red)
element and changed the on-engine filter more often. This spring
while returning from the Bahamas, we lost our engine (Perkins) and
had to be towed the last few miles to Palm Beach. Turns out that
the lift pump failed. Mechanic at Ribovitch-Spencer said that it is
true that too small of a filter can cause lift pump failure. He recommended
at 30 micron as well along with changing the on-engine filter
regularly.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Marc Auslander" wrote in message
...
these are really nice, I always try to drain the bowl......


I've had several recommendations for the Raycor 500 series. Thanks.

As a primary filter (my engine has a built in fuel filter) to you use
the 2 micron or the 10 micron element? I would think that given the
size of my engine (Yanmar 2GM) I should just use 2 micron even though
its the primary filter.

--

On my Pathfinder, I use a coarse (30 micron) filter as the first in line
filter from the tank (I always forget if that is primary or secondary). The
next one is finer (a Bosch as per specs). The coarse filter does the job in
getting out the big chunks and the finer filter is working of the finer
grit. That way the filters should fill up about evenly

--
Dennis Gibbons
S/V Dark Lady
CN35-207
email: dennis dash gibbons at worldnet dot att dot net
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
Several years ago I repowered my prev boat with a Yanmar 3GM. A few
weeks later I received a notice from Mack Boring that use of a filter
smaller than 30 micron places stress on the lift pump and that use
of such a filter would void the warranty. I started using a 30 micro (red)
element and changed the on-engine filter more often. This spring
while returning from the Bahamas, we lost our engine (Perkins) and
had to be towed the last few miles to Palm Beach. Turns out that
the lift pump failed. Mechanic at Ribovitch-Spencer said that it is
true that too small of a filter can cause lift pump failure. He
recommended
at 30 micron as well along with changing the on-engine filter
regularly.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Marc Auslander" wrote in message
...
these are really nice, I always try to drain the bowl......


I've had several recommendations for the Raycor 500 series. Thanks.

As a primary filter (my engine has a built in fuel filter) to you use
the 2 micron or the 10 micron element? I would think that given the
size of my engine (Yanmar 2GM) I should just use 2 micron even though
its the primary filter.

--

Sorry but these 'mechanics' have it all and entirely WRONG !!!!!

Too small a filter means NOT too small a retention rating but too small
a SURFACE AREA of the filter. What kills the lift (or any other) pump is
particulate and continually working against a high differential pressure
caused by either too small or too plugged a filter.

If you have a dirty tank or a tank without a recirculation filter use:
30uM followed by 10uM followed by 2uM ... the 2uM can be the 'guard'
filter between lift and high pressure pumps.

If you double the surface area, the differential pressure needed to
operate the filter at the design flow will be HALF .... and the service
life (to plugging) will be approximately *FOUR* times longer; plus, the
particles will be stopped on the filter media! The higher the
differential pressure the greater the possibility to extrude soft and
deformable particulate through the filter media.... only to plug a finer
rated filter / orfice, etc. downstream.

Of course you MUST in all cases monitor the performance of such filters
with pressure/vacuum gauges ... and check them periodically to develop a
plot of lifetime vs. time/gallons in service and WHEN to change them.
Bigger filters will SAVE you $$$$ and 'sudden' headaches, are more cost
effective and "removal efficient" than changing out teeny (and just as
expensive) filters on a 'seasonal' basis. Change when the pressure
gauges tell you to change them, install at least the next LARGER
*surface area* filter recommended, ............ instead of waiting for
the filters to plug ... when the weather is very rough/severe, you NEED
the engine to keep moving for safety, you and your crew are
seasick/tired/terrorized/etc.... and on top of this you have to go below
and change the filters then bleed the system - all the while you're
projectile-puking great lumps into the smelly bilge. That's not my idea
of fun!

Better yet is to install a recirculation filter with an integral gravity
water knock-out pot ... then you only need a regularly sized final
filter, will have no bacteria/water/particulate/sudden power
loss/etc./etc./etc.
You can wire such a system so that the recirc. pump operates any time
the engine is operating.

Hope this helps.

I think this is what I said. Too small a filter (pore size) causes
stress on the lift pump. This is what the mechanic said and also
what the memo from Yanmar stated. A clogged filter will always
place stress on the pump. The case was told of was using a 2u
filter in a Raycor 500. I'm installing a permanent
polishing system as well.

Doug

"RichH" wrote in message
...
Sorry but these 'mechanics' have it all and entirely WRONG !!!!!

Too small a filter means NOT too small a retention rating but too small
a SURFACE AREA of the filter. What kills the lift (or any other) pump is
particulate and continually working against a high differential pressure
caused by either too small or too plugged a filter.

If you have a dirty tank or a tank without a recirculation filter use:
30uM followed by 10uM followed by 2uM ... the 2uM can be the 'guard'
filter between lift and high pressure pumps.

If you double the surface area, the differential pressure needed to
operate the filter at the design flow will be HALF .... and the service
life (to plugging) will be approximately *FOUR* times longer; plus, the
particles will be stopped on the filter media! The higher the
differential pressure the greater the possibility to extrude soft and
deformable particulate through the filter media.... only to plug a finer
rated filter / orfice, etc. downstream.

Of course you MUST in all cases monitor the performance of such filters
with pressure/vacuum gauges ... and check them periodically to develop a
plot of lifetime vs. time/gallons in service and WHEN to change them.
Bigger filters will SAVE you $$$$ and 'sudden' headaches, are more cost
effective and "removal efficient" than changing out teeny (and just as
expensive) filters on a 'seasonal' basis. Change when the pressure
gauges tell you to change them, install at least the next LARGER
*surface area* filter recommended, ............ instead of waiting for
the filters to plug ... when the weather is very rough/severe, you NEED
the engine to keep moving for safety, you and your crew are
seasick/tired/terrorized/etc.... and on top of this you have to go below
and change the filters then bleed the system - all the while you're
projectile-puking great lumps into the smelly bilge. That's not my idea
of fun!

Better yet is to install a recirculation filter with an integral gravity
water knock-out pot ... then you only need a regularly sized final
filter, will have no bacteria/water/particulate/sudden power
loss/etc./etc./etc.
You can wire such a system so that the recirc. pump operates any time
the engine is operating.

Hope this helps.

If a 0.000000000002 micrometer rated filter has enough surface area it
will operate with LESS differential pressure than a small surface area
filter with 3 METERS pore size.

This is a vacuum pump ... meaning that it only has to deliver 15 psi
motive pressure plus about 2-3 feet of static head. A small dog can ****
harder than that.
The service advisory simply admits that Yanmar has a WEAK pump!!!!!!! A
pump that cant run against a 'dead-head'is cheap, ill designed, etc.

A clogged filter will always place stress on the pump. A filter begins
to become 'clogged' when approx 85% of its 'dirt capacity' is used, less
than that the pressure drop is linear, after that it rapidly accelerates
the rate of 'clogging' (becomes exponential) ..... thats why you NEED a
gauge to monitor it.

I'm installing a gauge as well, readable from the steering station. When
I owned the Yanmar, I chose to abide by what the manufacturer said
rather than risk my warranty. I'm funny like that. New system is going to
take into account all the good advise you and other have offered. I'm
not going to get caught with a dead engine again.

DOug

ps. Get a bigger dog

"RichH" wrote in message
...
If a 0.000000000002 micrometer rated filter has enough surface area it
will operate with LESS differential pressure than a small surface area
filter with 3 METERS pore size.

This is a vacuum pump ... meaning that it only has to deliver 15 psi
motive pressure plus about 2-3 feet of static head. A small dog can ****
harder than that.
The service advisory simply admits that Yanmar has a WEAK pump!!!!!!! A
pump that cant run against a 'dead-head'is cheap, ill designed, etc.

A clogged filter will always place stress on the pump. A filter begins
to become 'clogged' when approx 85% of its 'dirt capacity' is used, less
than that the pressure drop is linear, after that it rapidly accelerates
the rate of 'clogging' (becomes exponential) ..... thats why you NEED a
gauge to monitor it.

Subject: New style (spin on) Raycor (diesel) fuel filters
From: "Doug Dotson"

I'm installing a gauge as well, readable from the steering station. When
I owned the Yanmar, I chose to abide by what the manufacturer said
rather than risk my warranty. I'm funny like that. New system is going to
take into account all the good advise you and other have offered. I'm
not going to get caught with a dead engine again.

If you're going to all that trouble you might as well install the water probes
and alarms while you're at it.

Capt. bill

Here's my experience with vacuum gages. I have a Lehman 135. The primary
filter is a Racor 900 with 2 micron filters. The final is now a Racor
Spin-on with a 2 micron cartridge. I always check the vacuum gage on the
Racor underway, and it NEVER shows any vacuum. I even let that filter go too
long and pulled it out looking like it was coated with black jelly... still
no vacuum or effect on the engine. The filter is just HUGE compared to what
the Lehman sips... about 4 gallons/hr. consumed, 1.5 GPH or so returned. I
even took the vacuum gage off awhile back to make sure it was working; it
was fine.

If you have a filter that's really big compared to what your engine uses,
you'll almost never show any vacuum.

--


Keith
__
It's only unethical if you get caught.
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I'm installing a gauge as well, readable from the steering station. When
I owned the Yanmar, I chose to abide by what the manufacturer said
rather than risk my warranty. I'm funny like that. New system is going to
take into account all the good advise you and other have offered. I'm
not going to get caught with a dead engine again.

DOug

ps. Get a bigger dog

"RichH" wrote in message
...
If a 0.000000000002 micrometer rated filter has enough surface area it
will operate with LESS differential pressure than a small surface area
filter with 3 METERS pore size.

This is a vacuum pump ... meaning that it only has to deliver 15 psi
motive pressure plus about 2-3 feet of static head. A small dog can ****
harder than that.
The service advisory simply admits that Yanmar has a WEAK pump!!!!!!! A
pump that cant run against a 'dead-head'is cheap, ill designed, etc.

A clogged filter will always place stress on the pump. A filter begins
to become 'clogged' when approx 85% of its 'dirt capacity' is used, less
than that the pressure drop is linear, after that it rapidly accelerates
the rate of 'clogging' (becomes exponential) ..... thats why you NEED a
gauge to monitor it.

Uhmmm....

RichH wrote:

If a 0.000000000002 micrometer rated filter has enough surface area it
will operate with LESS differential pressure than a small surface area
filter with 3 METERS pore size.

Hardly! You need to study the issue of "bubble point" before making this
type of assertion. Basically, surface tension becomes the dominant
factor in backpressure when porosity is decreased to sub-micron levels.
In GENERAL, one can overcome delta-p issues due to lower average
porosity by increasing surface area, but certainly not allways.

Oh, and "small surface area" and "3 METERS" together do not make a
filter. It's a "HOLE". A BIG hole :-)

Keith Hughes