x-no-archive:yes
"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote:

I use WIX filters also mainly because that is all the parts house stocks in
my size. I know there is a lot of emotion for one brand or another but is
there a study as to which one works best (for diesels). It would not bother

Bob does not like WIX filters but does use them in the diesel Escort
because the Hastings filter has changed size and it doesn't fit now
:-(

me to order off the internet for my 1 oil change per year @ about 20
additional engine hours and not much more on the genset. Sailboaters don't
use much engine.

I have only got anecdotal evidence. CU did a study several years ago
but it was a bogus experiment because they used NYC taxi cabs which
run almost continuously (gasoline of course). So they didn't find any
particular difference because the problems with regular oil is that
when the engine gets cold the oil drains off the parts it is supposed
to be protecting. Since the NYC taxis don't get cold, there was no
benefit to them in the synthetic oil.


Also, with this few hours per year does the type of oil really matter? I
use Shell Rotella 15W-40 in the engine and genset and always felt this was
adequate.

I think it's a personal decision.


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
news
x-no-archive:yes "Keith" wrote:

I kinda doubt it for an engine that old. For one thing, it's viscosity is
lower than what you're probably using right now, so you might use more.
It
also might break a lot of gunk loose. For an engine that age, I'd just
stick
with regular mineral oil and a good change interval. Oh yea, and Wix
filters
if you can get them. None of that Fram crap.

We used to think this too, but we don't have anything BUT old engines
and we've not had that problem. The last new car we bought was a 1974
pickup. Our current cars that we are driving are all older than 1985,
and the boat is a 1979 - bought used and synthetic put in them ASAP.
One of the outboards is from the 50s and the other is probably very
early 1980s.

Do agree about using good filters though. We use the Amsoil filters
too or Hastings which are the same.

Now for a relatively new engine, I'd swear by synthetic. Have used it in
several cars and it's fantastic. Matter of fact, Corvettes come with pure
synthetic (Mobil 1) from the factory.

For a diesel, there are some synthetics specifically for diesels (CI)
like
Amsoil. I think Shell makes one as well, just make sure it's for diesels.
If
you really want to go whole hog with your system, install a bypass
filtration system, like the one from Amsoil or the Gulf Coast Jr. and as
long as you test your oil, you'll probably never have to change it again,
just top off occasionally.

grandma Rosalie
http://www12.virtualtourist.com/m/4a9c6/


grandma Rosalie

For filter tests, see:
http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html

--


Keith
__
There is no substitute for good manners, except perhaps fast reflexes.
"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message
...
I use WIX filters also mainly because that is all the parts house stocks
in
my size. I know there is a lot of emotion for one brand or another but is
there a study as to which one works best (for diesels). It would not
bother
me to order off the internet for my 1 oil change per year @ about 20
additional engine hours and not much more on the genset. Sailboaters
don't
use much engine.

Also, with this few hours per year does the type of oil really matter? I
use Shell Rotella 15W-40 in the engine and genset and always felt this was
adequate.


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
news
x-no-archive:yes "Keith" wrote:

I kinda doubt it for an engine that old. For one thing, it's viscosity
is
lower than what you're probably using right now, so you might use more.
It
also might break a lot of gunk loose. For an engine that age, I'd just
stick
with regular mineral oil and a good change interval. Oh yea, and Wix
filters
if you can get them. None of that Fram crap.

We used to think this too, but we don't have anything BUT old engines
and we've not had that problem. The last new car we bought was a 1974
pickup. Our current cars that we are driving are all older than 1985,
and the boat is a 1979 - bought used and synthetic put in them ASAP.
One of the outboards is from the 50s and the other is probably very
early 1980s.

Do agree about using good filters though. We use the Amsoil filters
too or Hastings which are the same.

Now for a relatively new engine, I'd swear by synthetic. Have used it
in
several cars and it's fantastic. Matter of fact, Corvettes come with
pure
synthetic (Mobil 1) from the factory.

For a diesel, there are some synthetics specifically for diesels (CI)
like
Amsoil. I think Shell makes one as well, just make sure it's for
diesels.
If
you really want to go whole hog with your system, install a bypass
filtration system, like the one from Amsoil or the Gulf Coast Jr. and
as
long as you test your oil, you'll probably never have to change it
again,
just top off occasionally.

grandma Rosalie
http://www12.virtualtourist.com/m/4a9c6/

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 00:23:31 -0400, "98stratus"
wrote:

Well there's your problem right there. Changing the oil every 10-15k Is
about 3 times the recommended interval. Ah but your going to say "I used
synthectic". Doesn't matter. The reason to use synthetics is for the
lubrication properties and the resistance to breakdown, it still picks up
impurities and dirt just as fast as the traditional oils. You still need to
change your oil every 5K.


....naw, I'm going to say, I don't give a rat's ass.

I've not had any problem. The rest of the car craps out before the
engine.

I ride 'em hard and put 'em away wet....and I don't really care.

Doobie wrote in message . 95.104...
Im due for an oil change for my boat and im wondering what the concensus
is on Synthetic oil vs. Mercruiser brand for a 7.4 liter (454ci) 1988
engine.
Is it worth the extra $$$?

RK
27' Sunrunner
Lake Simcoe
Ontario,Canada

Very Interesting question! I installed twin Mercruiser 350s (and Bravo
III outdrives) in May 2000. When oil change time came around, I bought
Mobil One oil. A yachting buddy recommended it and I was "going to do
it right." I just happened to read the Operation and Maintenance
Manual one last time before beginning. In the 2000 manual, page 77, it
says, in big bold type, "IMPORTANT: The use of non-detergent oils,
multi-viscosity oils (other than Quicksilver 25W-40 or a good quality
20W-40 or 20W-50), synthetic oils, low quiality oils or oils that
contain solid additives are specifically not recommended."

I called another buddy, who has an 1986 Mercruiser 350 (and manual).
His manual is identical except that the phrase "synethetic oils" is
not there. I interpret this to mean that Mercury has, somewhere
between 1986 and 2000, specifically added a recommendation against
synthetic oils.

I took all the Mobil One back, bought the Quicksilver Oil (its
available within walking distance of my slip and is not excessively
expensive) and change the oil and filter every 100 hours or less. Like
the book says.

FWIW

On 1 Sep 2003 20:49:29 -0700, (Bob) wrote:

Doobie wrote in message . 95.104...
Im due for an oil change for my boat and im wondering what the concensus
is on Synthetic oil vs. Mercruiser brand for a 7.4 liter (454ci) 1988
engine.
Is it worth the extra $$$?

RK
27' Sunrunner
Lake Simcoe
Ontario,Canada

Very Interesting question! I installed twin Mercruiser 350s (and Bravo
III outdrives) in May 2000. When oil change time came around, I bought
Mobil One oil. A yachting buddy recommended it and I was "going to do
it right." I just happened to read the Operation and Maintenance
Manual one last time before beginning. In the 2000 manual, page 77, it
says, in big bold type, "IMPORTANT: The use of non-detergent oils,
multi-viscosity oils (other than Quicksilver 25W-40 or a good quality
20W-40 or 20W-50), synthetic oils, low quiality oils or oils that
contain solid additives are specifically not recommended."

I called another buddy, who has an 1986 Mercruiser 350 (and manual).
His manual is identical except that the phrase "synethetic oils" is
not there. I interpret this to mean that Mercury has, somewhere
between 1986 and 2000, specifically added a recommendation against
synthetic oils.

Probably because, while synthetic oil like Mobile One was around in
1986, not many people were using it so there was no need to warn against
it. By 2000, synthetics became very popular and for some reason, they
don't want you to use them.

The reason is probably because they have no control over what synthetic
you use, and they are all different. With dino oil, they are all very
similar and the only main difference (other than things like sulfur
content) is the additives. So they can do testing with a high quality
dino oil and be reasonably assured that the results are reproducable
with other high quality dino oils. But with synthetics, the base
formulas and properties can be very different. Just look at the
evolution of Mobile One and you'll see that it's formula changed
drastically several times from when it was introduced in 1973; 1992,
1996, 1999, and 2002.

www.mobil1.com/why/synth/history.jsp

Steve

I've been using Mobile 1 in my 5.7 Mercruiser since I bought it with 211
hours on it. I use the green top 10-30W variety which is supposed to be
for older motors. I believe part of the reason Merc doesn't want you to
use it is because they don't sell it. Their pitch is similar to other
fluids for their equipment.

I change every 100 hours (three times this year, I'm happy to say!) and
use a WIX/Napa gold filter. Ask me in 3000 hours whether I was glad to
have used synthetic....

Jeff

Jeff,

If you get 3000 hours on your 5.7 Merc without a rebuild it will be extra
ordinary. Because boat engines are typically run at a much higher percentage
of max power than car engines, they typically need rebuilding as early as 600
hours.

I have a business partner who is a long time Merc mechanic, and former boat
dealer. When I bought my power boat new in 1997, he warned me that 600-800 hours
was what I could expect based on his experience. Right now, I'm still under
200 hours TT, so don't know yet if he's right.

Obviously there are a lot of variables that affect engine longevity including
the two biggies: Not running full throttle all the time, and properly winterizing.

YMMV,

Don W.


Messing In Boats wrote:

I've been using Mobile 1 in my 5.7 Mercruiser since I bought it with 211
hours on it. I use the green top 10-30W variety which is supposed to be
for older motors. I believe part of the reason Merc doesn't want you to
use it is because they don't sell it. Their pitch is similar to other
fluids for their equipment.

I change every 100 hours (three times this year, I'm happy to say!) and
use a WIX/Napa gold filter. Ask me in 3000 hours whether I was glad to
have used synthetic....

Jeff

That's why I stuck out my timetable so far; I figure I will have this
and a lot of other things figured out by then and will know what I
should have done.

I am hoping for 2000 hours though. I change every 100 hours and run the
boat at hull speed, about 1800 rpm, which I believe to be a lot kinder
to it than up on plane at 36-3900 as it was designed for.

What does your buddy say about synthetics?

Jeff

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 23:20:05 GMT, (Steven Shelikoff)
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 09:04:18 -0500, Messing In Boats
wrote:

I've been using Mobile 1 in my 5.7 Mercruiser since I bought it with 211
hours on it. I use the green top 10-30W variety which is supposed to be
for older motors. I believe part of the reason Merc doesn't want you to
use it is because they don't sell it. Their pitch is similar to other
fluids for their equipment.

I thought that might be the case also. But judging from the statement a
few posts up where they allow you to use a "good quality 20W-40 or
20W-50" that is not their brand, I'd say there's probably some other
reason they don't want you to use synthetic. After all, it's nothing
for a company like Mercury to have someone make a synthetic oil for
them, brand it and sell it for a good profit. You don't think Mercury
makes their Quicksilver themselves, do you?

If they did brand their own, don't be surprised if they recommend you
use only that brand of synthetic as opposed to allowing you to use any
good brand of dino oil like they currently do. Probably for the same
reason that I'm guessing they don't recommend any synthetic currently
.. they're all very different and that makes reproducable testing
difficult and expensive. They'll just test their hypothetical brand of
synthetic to make sure that the failure rate at X*sigma below the MTBF
(determined by how much it costs to repair the engine vs. how much it
costs to make it last a little longer) is still high enough that it

MTBF should be high enough, failure rate low enough.

Steve

Probably because, while synthetic oil like Mobile One was around in
1986, not many people were using it so there was no need to warn against
it. By 2000, synthetics became very popular and for some reason, they
don't want you to use them.
The reason is probably because they have no control over what synthetic
you use, and they are all different.

Are there SAE or equivalent standards for synthetics as there are
regular oils?

With dino oil, they are all very
similar and the only main difference (other than things like sulfur
content) is the additives.

In other words, all good dino oils meet the various industry
standards.

So they can do testing with a high quality
dino oil and be reasonably assured that the results are reproducable
with other high quality dino oils. But with synthetics, the base
formulas and properties can be very different. Just look at the
evolution of Mobile One and you'll see that it's formula changed
drastically several times from when it was introduced in 1973; 1992,
1996, 1999, and 2002.

I wonder why the formula changed "drastically" so many times? Were
there problems?

Others have mentioned how well synthetics work in their cars; but it
seems to me that comparison is flawed. My automotive 350, at 60 mph
and 20 mpg, burns three whole gallons per hour. My twin boat 350s, at
similar rpms are each burning twelve gph. The flame front/peak
pressures/wall temp inside each cylinder is much different than any
car engine. It isn't automatic that what works at 3 gph will still do
a good job at 12 gph (at WOT it is 22 gph per engine.)

www.mobil1.com/why/synth/history.jsp

Steve