Let's take a look at the record he

Peggie Hall : has regularly contributed solid and sound advice to anyone
asking for it...promptly, courteously, and professionally. Her posts are
always informative, and her opinions and statements always supportable
by facts.

Ron Thornton : blathers on with an emotional rant, unsupported by facts,
and when called on it, attempts a feeble and rude "your full of ****"
comment in support of his opinion. Yea...that just reeks of credibility
(NOT).

Good lord...you're even using web tv! Aol to complicated for ya little
fella? Now you be a good lil boy and go fume and stew over this for a
while. I'm sure you'll find a reply that befits your schoolboy mentality
eventually.

Peggie - thanks for the long standing good advice and help you've
provided! We appreciate you. Please ignore the dufus.



Ron Thornton wrote:

Peggie,

Your somewhat insulting response to my post is puzzling. Your view is
not supported by the environmental and health professionals both
governmental and private (hardly extremist) that have looked at this
here. The cities here would much rather have had this spill contained
and managed on land than to have had to close their beaches. You should
stick to hand pumped toilets and holding takes because you have
demonstrated many times over the years here that when you don't, your
are as full of **** as the James river was last weekend.

Ron

On 12 Aug 2003 12:15:26 GMT, (Wwj2110) wrote:

the problem is not "if" we **** in the water but "where we **** in the water".
Out in the deep water mother nature can handle an occasional dump. Where we get
into trouble is when we discharge into slow moving creeks or close to beaches
that dont see alot of current. The thing that bothers me is that where I live,
all of the municipal sewage treatment plants are built on small creeks. Its
rare to see a creek anymore that does'nt look grey. I dont think that people
realize that creeks dont naturally look grey.

I, personally, think the sewage plants, run by a government
bureaucracy that's not accountable to anyone but itself, is mostly a
big lie. I live on the historic Ashley River in Charleston, SC, just
up from Magnolia Gardens Plantation, a national historic registry old
Southern plantation. Summerville, SC and Charleston's Commissioners
of Public Works has two huge sewage plants dumping their crap into the
river. While noone was looking because Hurricane Hugo gave them an
excuse in 1989, the plants were backflushed into the river creating an
environmental disaster that the river still feels to this day, 14
years later. The river smelled just like the sewer for over a year
before the tide finally flushed it out enough it didn't just stink.
They dump about 14,000,000 gallons of "treated wastewater", whatever
the hell that means, into it DAILY. The Ashley River IS the
sewer......

And we worry about you ****ing in the river from your boat? How
silly.....

This morning, I drove over to work in Mt Pleasant (AKA Hungry Neck,
before there were any bridges). The I-526 expressway passes, to the
company's dismay, the Westvaco Paper Mill and Planet Destruction
Device. Huge vats of dark brown gook agitated by huge motors sit atop
the seawall into the Cooper River. The big round settling pond that
normally is full to capacity is empty, it's sprayers silent. Wonder
where that crap is going, today, as I type? Wonder where the brown
gook goes at 2AM? Westvaco's plant spews huge clouds of steam (steam
evaporates into thin air, so you can see it's steam...as opposed to
air pollution which trails out to the horizon). If you pass the plant
at, say, 2AM while the city sleeps, huge plumes of "steam" that
DOESN'T evaporate trails out of the huge stacks way out as far as you
can see. The air smells like sewage, too.

It's just steam, you know.

A friend of mine works for Bennett Yard where all the railroad cars
are transferred from train to train in Charleston. The local train to
the Westvaco Stink Factory and Planet Destruction Device crosses
4-lane Rivers Avenue on its way from the yard to the plant. I got
stopped by the train on the roadway waiting for it to pass. 4 huge
tank cars full of some organic acid used in paper production I
couldn't pronounce passed by my windshield making me wonder how many
of us would die if it derailed in North Charleston, a city of a few
hundred thousand. I asked my friend, "Where do these tank cars go
when they are returned full of waste acid from the paper mill?" To my
astonishment, he answered, "Back to the factory that makes it. The
cars are EMPTY!" I asked him how often the plant gets 4 huge tank
cars full of organic acid I cannot pronounce. "Every couple of
days..." was his reply. Now, according to my estimation and knowledge
that the paper mill has been running since I came to Charleston in
1966, all those buildings down there MUST be just full of waste
organic acids I cannot pronounce! But, wait.....They're NOT! Where
does all this acid go? The warning labels on the car look like
Weapons of Mass Destruction! You don't suppose they dump it.....oh,
no....I can't even think about it......IN THE RIVER?!!....or
maybe....no, it couldn't be....UP THE STACKS?!!! It MUST go somewhere
because the cars are EMPTY headed back for more! It's not piling up
on the property, obviously. These are BIG railroad tank
cars....thousands of gallons per DAY!

I know...it's all absorbed in the Kraft Paper and is in all the paper
bags at the grocery store. Hmm....that bag didn't burn a hole in my
hand or eat my shirt when I was carrying the groceries out to the car.
That couldn't be it.

It's gotta either go up the stack to destroy the air or into the river
because those are the only other places liquids go out of
there.....Duhhh...

And they worry about you and me ****ing in the rivers from a boat?


Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.

On 12 Aug 2003 02:38:37 -0700, (Steve)
wrote:

ouch wrote in message . ..
I don't disagree with your attitude- but your "facts" are suspect -
next to your colon, your bladder lining is the biggest shedder of dead
cells - ie. **** in a bowl, cover with saran wrap for 2-3 weeks and
drink that - how about even smell that.



Your urine should be sterile on exit, if its not you are ill. Of
course it smells after a while, that's because lots of bugs eat it.
Any nutritious substance smells after a while.

What has dead cells got to do with anything; the sea is full of cells
many of them structured into wondeful organisms !

Precisely....very well put. Dead cells don't stink until the bacteria
eat them! If we don't STORE them until they grow into sewage, they're
fine!


Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.

Larry wrote:

....we're the only species on the planet that makes it a crime
to **** in the water.

Wonderful logic, Larry. Do you have any stock market advice, too?

DSK

I, personally, think the sewage plants, run by a government
bureaucracy that's not accountable to anyone but itself, is mostly a
big lie.

well done larry!

creek & rivers up here in western NY are of not much concern to most
people.Thats because they have never seen a clean one.
Ive seen small creeks that cant even support a spec of life .Ive followed the
creek where i keep my sailboat, to its origin. It begins at a shut down
chemical plant where I observed a light brown dust covering the bottom & no
plant life within 3' of the creekbank. As it continues, straight pipes from
individual septic tanks , & 2 sewage treatment plants liven it up a bit. The
way the PPM requirment is satisfied is by adding canal water to dilute the
concoction. Farther downstream we have a few food processing plants. All of
this input enters lake ontario & if theres not enough rain to wash it out, a
huge 18" thick cake of steaming **** called "cladifora" floats at the entrance
& sometimes blocks me in or out of the creek. the DEC & EPA are no help. they
just blow smoke up my ass

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 07:10:28 -0400, "Mark Weaver"
wrote:


No, that's wrong. Dumping human (and animal) waste into the waters has
effects that fish and whale poop don't because human and domestic animal
waste contain bacteria which are dangerous to human health. This is why
beaches are closed when levels of E Coli and fecal coliform bacteria are
too
high (which happens when sewage systems overflow).

I disagree. Human waste is no different than waste from a whale WHEN
IT COMES OUT OF A HUMAN. You don' t **** E Coli or fecal coliform
bacteria or YOU'D BE DEAD ALREADY!

You don't get to 'disagree' on this one -- you're wrong. E coli live in the
healthy digestive tract of cattle and in the digestive tract of people who
happen to be infected at any given time (most E coli infections don't cause
death -- just diarrhea). There is no requirement for waste to sit in sewers
for E coli to end up in feces -- it's there already. Here's an overview of
the issue:

http://www.epa.gov/emfjulte/tpmcmaia/html/fecal.html

Mark

Fred Miller wrote:

"Ron Thornton" wrote
This weekend the City of Hampton VA allowed 2 million gallons of raw
sewage to wash into the James River ...

The whole thing pales by comparison to what has happened on the Great Lakes.
Last year the cities of Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha dumped in excess of
TWO BILLION GALLONS of untreated sewerage into Lake Michigan!!!

Hey, as long as people have more and more kids and encourage immigration
we're going to have more and more sewage. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing
about symptoms like not enough air, etc, etc, when the real problem is
too many people. Jeeze, one idiot over on rec.rv was whining about
development and keeping the wilderness for his kids to enjoy - all seven
of them!
Excuse the rant ...
Howard

the problem is not "if" we **** in the water but "where we **** in the
water".


My boat is in San Francisco Bay and there
is good water movement due to good tidal
movement. In spite of that, in my marina,
in the shallow end near to shore, there is
often a film of 'unnatural' looking origin. I suspect it is from waste being
discharged.
There is of course no way for me to confirm this. I wonder if some people in
the marina are discharging waste.
As a nurse, I can tell you that urine is
definitely 'sterile', (without bacteria) unless
you have a urinary tract infection or have
some other disease. However, 'sterile',
in this case is not synonymous with 'clean'. Urine is waste. That's why our
bodies get rid of it. Given enough of it in
a small area of water, it does effect the water quality. Where that line is, I
don't
know. I suspect that the closer to shore
you are, the less it takes to actually detract from the quality of shore
beauty.

My two cents
Mark

The whole thing pales by comparison to what has happened on the Great Lakes.
Last year the cities of Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha dumped in excess of
TWO BILLION GALLONS of untreated sewerage into Lake Michigan!!!


In this country, we are worried and on the lookout for terrorists who threaten
to disrupt our economy, quality of life, and
ways of life. Has anyone considered that
this has been happening for years by polluters who destroy fisheries,
recreational areas and drinking water supplies? The bodies of water are the
golden goose and they destroy with impunity. Who suffers? All of us, in some
way or another, do. Higher prices for protein source food, health problems
(cancer), due to ingesting carcinogens, lack of recreational diversions, loss
of jobs in canneries, fishing, restaurant, fish marketing, and related
industries are just
a few of many.
It's astounding that this is even allowed to happen in this age of supposed
ecological sensitivity.

Mark

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug 2003 12:15:26 GMT, (Wwj2110) wrote:
excuse in 1989, the plants were backflushed into the river creating an
environmental disaster that the river still feels to this day, 14
years later. The river smelled just like the sewer for over a year
before the tide finally flushed it out enough it didn't just stink.
They dump about 14,000,000 gallons of "treated wastewater", whatever
the hell that means, into it DAILY. The Ashley River IS the
sewer......

Probably the US in general is not really up to date when it comes to
protecting environment? I'm just thinking about the rotten cars that you
find in many backyards, plastic & foam stuff wrapped around the burgers,
countless plastic bags, cars with low fuel efficiency, no wind/solar energy
concept, the refusal to sign the Kyoto protocol, ...

just my $.02

#rb