On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:58:03 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

"Jack Dale" wrote .

I usually buy the one litre size and find pack other items around it.

I know that we should not cry over spilled milk, but I can concur that
cleaning it out of a fridge is an awful job.

Speaking of spilled milk, has anyone come across some nice stainless wire
baskets to help organize a top loading box? I found some in chromed steel
but they will rust eventually.

Have you tried using plastic organizers? I have been on several
charter boats that use them. They work well.

Jack

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:58:03 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

Speaking of spilled milk, has anyone come across some nice stainless wire
baskets to help organize a top loading box? I found some in chromed steel
but they will rust eventually.

We use the plastic Walmart type storage organizers in addition to the
wire rack about half way down the box. We haven't found the need but
it would be easy enough to cut holes in the plastic bins to improve
air flow.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:33:23 GMT, Jack Dale
wrote:

I usually estimate water requirements at between 5 and 10 gallons per
person per day. That's on a boat with pressure water and a shower,
probably half that otherwise..

In 25 years of cruising I have never consumed that much water.

Off shore - you sponge bath. Diskes are washed in sea water and
rinsed in fresh.

Coastal - one person can shower in a half gallon by using navy showers
(wet, turn off water, soap, rinse). We also drink bottled water; I
find that people will drink more, thereby reducing dehrydration and
other problems.

Sure, that's all possible if you are roughing it on a small boat but
if you want to be a bit more civilized, and have the tankage to
support it, my numbers seem to be fairly typical. Our objective when
living/cruising on the boat is to be as comfortable as possible, not
as frugal as possible. If we had a boat with limited tankage, I'd
want some sort of watermaker system with "frugal" as a backup.

wrote:
Although I have been cruising for a number of years I still do not know the
amount of space needed to store food.
Some of the new sailboat are been equipped with only a 2.4 cubic foot front
opening frig and not other ice box.
When shopping for my new boat I wonder what to look for when it come to food
and water storage. I could benefit from other cruisers comments and
feedback.

First, a cranky comment - Why is that so many people ask very basic
general questions without offering even the simplest description of
their situation? I mean, don't you think it would help if you told us
whether you were interested in sail or power? Small boat or big? Or
if you were planning for 2 week trips or headed out for 2 years? Or
marina hopping day by day or hunkering down in a forgotten island for
a month? Coast of Maine or Caribbean? Or do you expect everyone to
tell you everything they know so that you can pick the parts that are
of interest to you? There. That's out of my system.

Now, as for food, you know what you like. Buy as much as will fit.
If you don't expect to see a supermarket for a while, buy extra.
Don't worry about milk or toilet paper since you can buy that
anywhere. Don't assume your eating habits will magically change; if
you hate rice don't buy the 50 pound bag because some cruiser said
that's the the right thing - you'll have 49 pounds when you return.

For water, there are so many variables there's no way to suggest a
number. We have 80 gallons, and figure that should last three of us
(plus a dog that gets a bath on occasion) for at least a week. But we
could stretch for more if needed - it really depends on how often we
go swimming and need to rinse off salt water. In Maine we use very
little water; down South we used a lot.

The big item is refrigeration. Here your choice really can affect
lifestyle. We have gone towards one extreme: we a 8 foot fridge plus
a 5 foot deep freeze, chilled by a holding plate system with a big DC
motor. The up side is that the fridge can hold two weeks of food and
several days of beverage, and the freezer can hold a summer's worth of
steaks, burgers, lamb, chicken, breads, veggies, etc. Wherever we
are, we can pull out a steak from our local gourmet market and grill
it up. Most is packed away pre-marinated or otherwise ready to
defrost and grilled.

The downside, is that this system eats at least 90 Amp-hours a day, as
much as 120 if its hot and the water is hot. If we're powering, or on
shore power, this is not a problem. But in an anchorage, we get one
day's grace and then have to start running the engine, or a small
genset, for about 60-90 minutes a day. We have limited solar (150
watts) which helps, and if were were out for longer periods we would
double the solar and add a wind generator, but for now we generate
most of the power with the engine. The biggest potential problem is
the we can't leave the boat unattended on a mooring for more than a day.

If I were to do it over with today's technology, I would use the new
small hermetic compressor systems, and I'd put in one for the fridge
and another for the freezer. Thus we could make do with only one, and
potentially get by with a small enough load that could be mostly
covered by solar. Also, I might consider getting an Engel chest that
could be used for periods when we had extra needs.

Make sure that any fridge you get is well insulated and the door is
well sealed. Front opening is not a problem - its a total myth that
"all the cold spills out." (Air has a very low heat content.) The
problem with front opening doors is that they are often thin and not
well insulated, and the seals are wimpy. Also, while the air that
comes in doesn't carry much heat, it does carry humidity, so you will
need to defrost more often. Also, front opening can be a pain on a
well heeled boat on a passage. Of course, hanging over the side of a
top loader looking for where the stick of butter went to isn't much
fun either.

Talking about fridge, now most new sailboats are coming with front loading
unit.
I am having a problem to find a new boat with a large build in ice box
equipped with refrigeration
The Beneteau 331 build in 2004 has a 38 gals ice box. While the 334 build
in 2006 have a 4.3 cubic feet front loading fridge.
The Hunter 33, 2006 has only a 2.5 cubic feet front loaded fridge.
According to the brokers and manufactures new buyers are happy with the
small front loading fridge. I thing its only good for week ends or staying
into your slip with electrical hook ups.


"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
Although I have been cruising for a number of years I still do not know
the amount of space needed to store food.
Some of the new sailboat are been equipped with only a 2.4 cubic foot
front opening frig and not other ice box.
When shopping for my new boat I wonder what to look for when it come to
food and water storage. I could benefit from other cruisers comments and
feedback.

First, a cranky comment - Why is that so many people ask very basic
general questions without offering even the simplest description of their
situation? I mean, don't you think it would help if you told us whether
you were interested in sail or power? Small boat or big? Or if you were
planning for 2 week trips or headed out for 2 years? Or marina hopping
day by day or hunkering down in a forgotten island for a month? Coast of
Maine or Caribbean? Or do you expect everyone to tell you everything they
know so that you can pick the parts that are of interest to you? There.
That's out of my system.

Now, as for food, you know what you like. Buy as much as will fit. If you
don't expect to see a supermarket for a while, buy extra. Don't worry
about milk or toilet paper since you can buy that anywhere. Don't assume
your eating habits will magically change; if you hate rice don't buy the
50 pound bag because some cruiser said that's the the right thing - you'll
have 49 pounds when you return.

For water, there are so many variables there's no way to suggest a number.
We have 80 gallons, and figure that should last three of us (plus a dog
that gets a bath on occasion) for at least a week. But we could stretch
for more if needed - it really depends on how often we go swimming and
need to rinse off salt water. In Maine we use very little water; down
South we used a lot.

The big item is refrigeration. Here your choice really can affect
lifestyle. We have gone towards one extreme: we a 8 foot fridge plus a 5
foot deep freeze, chilled by a holding plate system with a big DC motor.
The up side is that the fridge can hold two weeks of food and several days
of beverage, and the freezer can hold a summer's worth of steaks, burgers,
lamb, chicken, breads, veggies, etc. Wherever we are, we can pull out a
steak from our local gourmet market and grill it up. Most is packed away
pre-marinated or otherwise ready to defrost and grilled.

The downside, is that this system eats at least 90 Amp-hours a day, as
much as 120 if its hot and the water is hot. If we're powering, or on
shore power, this is not a problem. But in an anchorage, we get one day's
grace and then have to start running the engine, or a small genset, for
about 60-90 minutes a day. We have limited solar (150 watts) which helps,
and if were were out for longer periods we would double the solar and add
a wind generator, but for now we generate most of the power with the
engine. The biggest potential problem is the we can't leave the boat
unattended on a mooring for more than a day.

If I were to do it over with today's technology, I would use the new small
hermetic compressor systems, and I'd put in one for the fridge and another
for the freezer. Thus we could make do with only one, and potentially get
by with a small enough load that could be mostly covered by solar. Also,
I might consider getting an Engel chest that could be used for periods
when we had extra needs.

Make sure that any fridge you get is well insulated and the door is well
sealed. Front opening is not a problem - its a total myth that "all the
cold spills out." (Air has a very low heat content.) The problem with
front opening doors is that they are often thin and not well insulated,
and the seals are wimpy. Also, while the air that comes in doesn't carry
much heat, it does carry humidity, so you will need to defrost more often.
Also, front opening can be a pain on a well heeled boat on a passage. Of
course, hanging over the side of a top loader looking for where the stick
of butter went to isn't much fun either.

wrote:
Talking about fridge, now most new sailboats are coming with front loading
unit.
I am having a problem to find a new boat with a large build in ice box
equipped with refrigeration
The Beneteau 331 build in 2004 has a 38 gals ice box. While the 334 build
in 2006 have a 4.3 cubic feet front loading fridge.
The Hunter 33, 2006 has only a 2.5 cubic feet front loaded fridge.
According to the brokers and manufactures new buyers are happy with the
small front loading fridge. I thing its only good for week ends or staying
into your slip with electrical hook ups.

Maybe that just means these boats are made for those boaters. The
question is, what kind of boater are you?

And what type of fridge is for people without electrical hookups?

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:12:07 -0400, Jeff wrote:


First, a cranky comment - Why is that so many people ask very basic
general questions without offering even the simplest description of
their situation? I mean, don't you think it would help if you told us
whether you were interested in sail or power?

This won't be the first time this complaint has been made.

I suspect its easy to write a query, and harder to think through the
details on your own.

I have even noticed myself asking questions of the simple kind,
though I've answered many many others - human nature, maybe.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Well what kind of a sailor I am and what is my present situation.

I did not want to lay up my profile but you got me started.

When I was a young child plastic, toys were not made. My first toy was a
10-inch long wooden sailboat with a long sheet metal keel with sharp edges.
I play with it in the bath tub until the sharp metal keel lacerated my skin.
After that my mother took it away from me.;-(

Then we made sailboats with old wooden doors and used sugar bags. After
going from dinghies, canoes, kayaks I now have a sailboat since 1982. The
sailboat has been used in the Bay of Fundy, St. John river system, Coast of
Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Maine, Gulf of St Lawrence and Lake Champlain.
Now I am shopping to replace my old sailboat with a new one. Although I have
been sailing for some time, I can always learn from more experienced
sailors.

This new sailboat will be my last one and I want to make sure that it suits
my needs. I do not want to depend on shore replenishment too much. Even if
you are shopping on shore you have to carry the stuff back to your boat. One
time in Buck Harbor we walked 5 miles returns for veggies and bread. Many
time while cruising I rowed on shore for potable water with a 5 gallons can
with my dinghies.


"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:12:07 -0400, Jeff wrote:


First, a cranky comment - Why is that so many people ask very basic
general questions without offering even the simplest description of
their situation? I mean, don't you think it would help if you told us
whether you were interested in sail or power?

This won't be the first time this complaint has been made.

I suspect its easy to write a query, and harder to think through the
details on your own.

I have even noticed myself asking questions of the simple kind,
though I've answered many many others - human nature, maybe.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Not all boats carry 100's of gallons of water and if those cruisers want to
go more than a couple days without refilling, hand pumps and solar shower
bags come in handy!
Picture if you had a 75 gal tank and an unintiated guest aboard ****ing half
of it out the shower sump?
The same attitude that says "if the skipper has to be conservative about
water stores" could be carried further, got a ice maker? NO? AND YOU'RE
GOING OFFSHORE! MY GOD, THE INHUMANITY................
I've been in situations where water conservation was very important and had
to figure out how to use what we had as economically as possible. Taking a
luke warm shower and pumping sink water manually is not exactly a sacrifice.
Maybe a little too hard core for you guys? Ha!
MMC
Still looking at the same sunsets, drinking cold drinks, not smelling like a
goat, etc. as you guys with 300 gallons....

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
newsK2Fg.10903$ok5.9618@dukeread01...
It is kinda hard to justify spending $75K to $250K or more for a boat to
cruise on if you have to live like you were in the 16th century.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:57:35 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

You can cut that 5-10 gal per day by quite a bit by turning off the water
heater and electric pumps!

You can cut consumption to zero if you turn off the pump but what's
the point? There are folks who cross oceans in small boats who wash
with salt water and have no refrigeration but that's an extreme not
likely to happen with most people.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:34:02 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

Picture if you had a 75 gal tank and an unintiated guest aboard ****ing half
of it out the shower sump?

That would be difficult. Our old boat had a 75 gallon tank, pressure
hot water, shower, etc. It would typically last the two of us about a
week.

The new boat has a pair of 250 gallon tanks but I keep the second one
valved off as a reserve which we've never needed, even on a three week
cruise. On the other hand, we don't use the washer/dryer very much,
wash the chain down with seawater, never use the windshield washers,
and use the ice maker only for cold drinks...

Some sacrifices have to be made. :-)