On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:33:23 GMT, Jack Dale
wrote:

I usually estimate water requirements at between 5 and 10 gallons per
person per day. That's on a boat with pressure water and a shower,
probably half that otherwise..

In 25 years of cruising I have never consumed that much water.

Off shore - you sponge bath. Diskes are washed in sea water and
rinsed in fresh.

Coastal - one person can shower in a half gallon by using navy showers
(wet, turn off water, soap, rinse). We also drink bottled water; I
find that people will drink more, thereby reducing dehrydration and
other problems.

Sure, that's all possible if you are roughing it on a small boat but
if you want to be a bit more civilized, and have the tankage to
support it, my numbers seem to be fairly typical. Our objective when
living/cruising on the boat is to be as comfortable as possible, not
as frugal as possible. If we had a boat with limited tankage, I'd
want some sort of watermaker system with "frugal" as a backup.

Jack Dale wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:24:24 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:06:13 GMT, wrote:

. . . In areas like Desolation Sound, that is essential, water is sparse. I hate
having to go look for water. . .

?? Have things changed up there? I cruised Desolation Sound, etc.,
extensively in the '70s and filling a coupla jerry cans while venturing
ashore was easy, fresh water lakes and creeks galore. Fresh water is
much more problematical in places like the Sea of Cortez.

WHAT? Drink beaver pee? Omigod!
G
"Mark" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jack Dale wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:24:24 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:06:13 GMT, wrote:

. . . In areas like Desolation Sound, that is essential, water is
sparse. I hate
having to go look for water. . .

?? Have things changed up there? I cruised Desolation Sound, etc.,
extensively in the '70s and filling a coupla jerry cans while venturing
ashore was easy, fresh water lakes and creeks galore. Fresh water is
much more problematical in places like the Sea of Cortez.

Gordon wrote:
WHAT? Drink beaver pee? Omigod!
G
Dosed with iodine tablets, of course. In the seventies I got a case
of giardia (Eagle Cap Wilderness), undiagnosed for four days, and,
believe me, it's quite unpleasant.

Not to mention that I do not have any test kit to check the quality of
potable water that I could find ashore.
At time when I am not sure of the water either I do not use it or I use a
feed drops of Clorox (Javex) water then I boil it for drinking. It not fool
proof but for the lack of a better thing it is worth getting use to. I can
remember one time I was about to fill two 5 gallons containers when I found
out that it was salty sea water. One other time, I ask the general store
owner if I could fill my containers with potable water. He replied not a
problem. Then I said what's that smell (rotten eggs). He replied it is
high mineral content water we dring it every day and its been approved for
human consumption. I rowed back on my boat and did not pour the water into
my tank but left the containers in the cockpit. Now that I am shopping for
new sailboat I want to make sure that I dot run into the same problems as
before.
BTW: Clorox (Javex) was widely used by the armed forces water tankers in
the Congo.

"Mark" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jack Dale wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:24:24 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:06:13 GMT, wrote:

. . . In areas like Desolation Sound, that is essential, water is
sparse. I hate
having to go look for water. . .

?? Have things changed up there? I cruised Desolation Sound, etc.,
extensively in the '70s and filling a coupla jerry cans while venturing
ashore was easy, fresh water lakes and creeks galore. Fresh water is
much more problematical in places like the Sea of Cortez.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:58:50 GMT, wrote:


BTW: Clorox (Javex) was widely used by the armed forces water tankers in
the Congo.


....not to mention the bleach spray applied to the salad greens at the
grocers store.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

On 20 Aug 2006 09:45:34 -0700, "Mark" wrote:


Jack Dale wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:24:24 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:06:13 GMT, wrote:

. . . In areas like Desolation Sound, that is essential, water is sparse. I hate
having to go look for water. . .

?? Have things changed up there? I cruised Desolation Sound, etc.,
extensively in the '70s and filling a coupla jerry cans while venturing
ashore was easy, fresh water lakes and creeks galore. Fresh water is
much more problematical in places like the Sea of Cortez.

Giardia is a issue. They are boil water advisories anywhere the water
comes from natural sources.

Jack

wrote:
Although I have been cruising for a number of years I still do not know the
amount of space needed to store food.
Some of the new sailboat are been equipped with only a 2.4 cubic foot front
opening frig and not other ice box.
When shopping for my new boat I wonder what to look for when it come to food
and water storage. I could benefit from other cruisers comments and
feedback.

First, a cranky comment - Why is that so many people ask very basic
general questions without offering even the simplest description of
their situation? I mean, don't you think it would help if you told us
whether you were interested in sail or power? Small boat or big? Or
if you were planning for 2 week trips or headed out for 2 years? Or
marina hopping day by day or hunkering down in a forgotten island for
a month? Coast of Maine or Caribbean? Or do you expect everyone to
tell you everything they know so that you can pick the parts that are
of interest to you? There. That's out of my system.

Now, as for food, you know what you like. Buy as much as will fit.
If you don't expect to see a supermarket for a while, buy extra.
Don't worry about milk or toilet paper since you can buy that
anywhere. Don't assume your eating habits will magically change; if
you hate rice don't buy the 50 pound bag because some cruiser said
that's the the right thing - you'll have 49 pounds when you return.

For water, there are so many variables there's no way to suggest a
number. We have 80 gallons, and figure that should last three of us
(plus a dog that gets a bath on occasion) for at least a week. But we
could stretch for more if needed - it really depends on how often we
go swimming and need to rinse off salt water. In Maine we use very
little water; down South we used a lot.

The big item is refrigeration. Here your choice really can affect
lifestyle. We have gone towards one extreme: we a 8 foot fridge plus
a 5 foot deep freeze, chilled by a holding plate system with a big DC
motor. The up side is that the fridge can hold two weeks of food and
several days of beverage, and the freezer can hold a summer's worth of
steaks, burgers, lamb, chicken, breads, veggies, etc. Wherever we
are, we can pull out a steak from our local gourmet market and grill
it up. Most is packed away pre-marinated or otherwise ready to
defrost and grilled.

The downside, is that this system eats at least 90 Amp-hours a day, as
much as 120 if its hot and the water is hot. If we're powering, or on
shore power, this is not a problem. But in an anchorage, we get one
day's grace and then have to start running the engine, or a small
genset, for about 60-90 minutes a day. We have limited solar (150
watts) which helps, and if were were out for longer periods we would
double the solar and add a wind generator, but for now we generate
most of the power with the engine. The biggest potential problem is
the we can't leave the boat unattended on a mooring for more than a day.

If I were to do it over with today's technology, I would use the new
small hermetic compressor systems, and I'd put in one for the fridge
and another for the freezer. Thus we could make do with only one, and
potentially get by with a small enough load that could be mostly
covered by solar. Also, I might consider getting an Engel chest that
could be used for periods when we had extra needs.

Make sure that any fridge you get is well insulated and the door is
well sealed. Front opening is not a problem - its a total myth that
"all the cold spills out." (Air has a very low heat content.) The
problem with front opening doors is that they are often thin and not
well insulated, and the seals are wimpy. Also, while the air that
comes in doesn't carry much heat, it does carry humidity, so you will
need to defrost more often. Also, front opening can be a pain on a
well heeled boat on a passage. Of course, hanging over the side of a
top loader looking for where the stick of butter went to isn't much
fun either.

Talking about fridge, now most new sailboats are coming with front loading
unit.
I am having a problem to find a new boat with a large build in ice box
equipped with refrigeration
The Beneteau 331 build in 2004 has a 38 gals ice box. While the 334 build
in 2006 have a 4.3 cubic feet front loading fridge.
The Hunter 33, 2006 has only a 2.5 cubic feet front loaded fridge.
According to the brokers and manufactures new buyers are happy with the
small front loading fridge. I thing its only good for week ends or staying
into your slip with electrical hook ups.


"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
Although I have been cruising for a number of years I still do not know
the amount of space needed to store food.
Some of the new sailboat are been equipped with only a 2.4 cubic foot
front opening frig and not other ice box.
When shopping for my new boat I wonder what to look for when it come to
food and water storage. I could benefit from other cruisers comments and
feedback.

First, a cranky comment - Why is that so many people ask very basic
general questions without offering even the simplest description of their
situation? I mean, don't you think it would help if you told us whether
you were interested in sail or power? Small boat or big? Or if you were
planning for 2 week trips or headed out for 2 years? Or marina hopping
day by day or hunkering down in a forgotten island for a month? Coast of
Maine or Caribbean? Or do you expect everyone to tell you everything they
know so that you can pick the parts that are of interest to you? There.
That's out of my system.

Now, as for food, you know what you like. Buy as much as will fit. If you
don't expect to see a supermarket for a while, buy extra. Don't worry
about milk or toilet paper since you can buy that anywhere. Don't assume
your eating habits will magically change; if you hate rice don't buy the
50 pound bag because some cruiser said that's the the right thing - you'll
have 49 pounds when you return.

For water, there are so many variables there's no way to suggest a number.
We have 80 gallons, and figure that should last three of us (plus a dog
that gets a bath on occasion) for at least a week. But we could stretch
for more if needed - it really depends on how often we go swimming and
need to rinse off salt water. In Maine we use very little water; down
South we used a lot.

The big item is refrigeration. Here your choice really can affect
lifestyle. We have gone towards one extreme: we a 8 foot fridge plus a 5
foot deep freeze, chilled by a holding plate system with a big DC motor.
The up side is that the fridge can hold two weeks of food and several days
of beverage, and the freezer can hold a summer's worth of steaks, burgers,
lamb, chicken, breads, veggies, etc. Wherever we are, we can pull out a
steak from our local gourmet market and grill it up. Most is packed away
pre-marinated or otherwise ready to defrost and grilled.

The downside, is that this system eats at least 90 Amp-hours a day, as
much as 120 if its hot and the water is hot. If we're powering, or on
shore power, this is not a problem. But in an anchorage, we get one day's
grace and then have to start running the engine, or a small genset, for
about 60-90 minutes a day. We have limited solar (150 watts) which helps,
and if were were out for longer periods we would double the solar and add
a wind generator, but for now we generate most of the power with the
engine. The biggest potential problem is the we can't leave the boat
unattended on a mooring for more than a day.

If I were to do it over with today's technology, I would use the new small
hermetic compressor systems, and I'd put in one for the fridge and another
for the freezer. Thus we could make do with only one, and potentially get
by with a small enough load that could be mostly covered by solar. Also,
I might consider getting an Engel chest that could be used for periods
when we had extra needs.

Make sure that any fridge you get is well insulated and the door is well
sealed. Front opening is not a problem - its a total myth that "all the
cold spills out." (Air has a very low heat content.) The problem with
front opening doors is that they are often thin and not well insulated,
and the seals are wimpy. Also, while the air that comes in doesn't carry
much heat, it does carry humidity, so you will need to defrost more often.
Also, front opening can be a pain on a well heeled boat on a passage. Of
course, hanging over the side of a top loader looking for where the stick
of butter went to isn't much fun either.

wrote:
Talking about fridge, now most new sailboats are coming with front loading
unit.
I am having a problem to find a new boat with a large build in ice box
equipped with refrigeration
The Beneteau 331 build in 2004 has a 38 gals ice box. While the 334 build
in 2006 have a 4.3 cubic feet front loading fridge.
The Hunter 33, 2006 has only a 2.5 cubic feet front loaded fridge.
According to the brokers and manufactures new buyers are happy with the
small front loading fridge. I thing its only good for week ends or staying
into your slip with electrical hook ups.

Maybe that just means these boats are made for those boaters. The
question is, what kind of boater are you?

And what type of fridge is for people without electrical hookups?