Gogarty wrote in
:

left people drowsy or even spaced out.


Hell, that describes 70% of the people on any dock...(c;

Bob opined:
On that same show they tested 2 people and 1 said that the drug that
worked best was the placebo (sugar pill). Of course when they tested
him, they told him that it was a new drug and he didn't get sick at
all. That tells me for some it is a mind game. If you feel relaxed
and believe it what you are taking will cure you, you will be fine.


This is an excellent point................ What is the expected placebo
effect for any given sample/study group? Cant remember but I think the
folks who submit to the NJM mentioned, maybe 6%-12% of people are head
cases.

Anybody know the typical expected placebo effect for humans?

Bob

A few years ago there was a widely published study (released to the news
media) that pitted placebo against the well known SSRI's like Paxil,
etc. What they found was that several drugs made people worse, the drug
that worked the best scored a 15% improvement (subjective, rated by the
patients on standardized scoresheets) and the placebo rated 45%.

Evidently, since the brain controls the body, and the mind controls the
brain - then changing the mind can change the body's responses. This is
borne out by studies of people with multiple personalities: several
documented cases of M.P's have a serious disease in the body during the
manifestation of one personality, but not during another. One case I
remember reading about the patient had type I diabetes (non-insulin
producing) in one personality, but produced normal levels of insulin in
another personality as measured during blood tests.

A good demonstration is when a hypnotist has the subject believe they
are as stiff as a board, and is then placed horizontally over two chairs
- one under the head, the other under the feet. Then the hypnotist
stands on the suspended person's belly with no apparent strain by the
subject to hold him up for an extended time period. Most demonstration
subjects report that they felt no strain or effort during the
demonstration. Beliefs are powerful.

Larry wrote:
"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

Yeah, bent over is one thing, bent over and hurling their guts up just
doesn't qualify as a turn-on.




I was driving the Amel under sail around the harbor, on another nice day
cruise. She laid on her belly on a towel up under the main in front of me
on the port side.

I wouldn't have even notice our collision course with a 950' containership,
especially after she released the clip on the back of that metallic green
top!


I think I have seen the picture of her on her back titled "two point
navigation system" ...

:{))

L8R

"Don White" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote:
"Scotty" wrote:

I have a non-boating friend who's going on a cruise next
week. He's concerned about seasickness. I told him ginger is
a good cure. I bought him a box of Ginger Snaps ( more for a
joke ). Should he start munching on these before he steps
onboard or wait till / if he feels bad?



Wait at least until the boat starts rocking, but not necessarily until
that old queasy feeling sets in.

Ginger ale also works nicely, although if you overdo it, the carbonation
is bad.

"Wayne.B" wrote

The one remedy which works for just avout everyone and is clinically
proven:

http://www.prevent-motion-sickness-scopolamine.com/



Yeah but they have side effects.

Capt. JG wrote:

The patches work for me, but they make me unusually thirsty... more than
I can stand, sort of like feeling that I've been marching in desert
conditions, so I don't use them.


Plus they can give you a hangover worse than tequila. And it seems to hit
some people really hard, I went on a charter trip with a girl years ago
who was practically in a coma from her scopolamine patches. She slept for
40 hours straight and it took over a week to get out of her system.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The first time we sailed 30nm down the coast to our 'summer club' I took
the patch.
Man did I get drowsy. When we got home around 2200 hrs I flopped into the
bed and didn't wake up till the next afternoon. That never happens to me.
I was completely wiped.

I've had an unpleasant experience with these as well. Didn't eat any dinner
before the 80 mile offshore cruise (no use wasting it) and used a full
patch. Did I ever get dizzy, phew. Burning sensation in mouth as well.
Now I'm only 140 pounds and with no dinner I guess I was overdosed. I've
heard you should cut them in half for children. Didn't use anything on the
way back and was fine.
Never again.

Sailaway wrote:
A few years ago there was a widely published study (released to the news
media) that pitted placebo against the well known SSRI's like Paxil,
etc. What they found was that several drugs made people worse, the drug
that worked the best scored a 15% improvement (subjective, rated by the
patients on standardized scoresheets) and the placebo rated 45%.
Beliefs are powerful.

Geeze.......... 45%!?!?!

But I gotta ask who were the test subjects? Were they or had been SSRI
users?

If so I would think the study was skewed with a bunch of head cases. I
just can not believe that 45% of the general population would say they
felt better after swalling a sugar cube.

But hey, may be I am just ignorant and not in touch with my inner
spiritual healing center. I'll sell my boat buy an 18' teepee, eat
tofu, shove alfalfa up my ass, and find some fat chick with hairy legs
to share my spiritual quest while living on USFS land and collecting
food stamps?

SantaCruze-SF-Ashland-Eugene.....

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
I have a non-boating friend who's going on a cruise next
week. He's concerned about seasickness. I told him ginger is
a good cure. I bought him a box of Ginger Snaps ( more for a
joke ). Should he start munching on these before he steps
onboard or wait till / if he feels bad?

I'll add my opinion to all the rest.

Seasickness is 50% physical and 50% in the mind. It is triggered by
confusion between the signals from the eyes and ears(balance).

The treatment for the physical 50% is easy. Get Stugeron. Take *half* a
tablet one hour before setting sail. A whole tablet seems to cause
uncomfortable drowsiness.

The treatment for the "in the mind" side is also quite simple. Look at the
horizon .... this will synchronise the signals from the eyes and ears. On a
sailboat, this is easy. However, on a cruise ship this will be a bit more
difficult. If it is at all rough, then you should stay on the upper decks
where you can look at the horizon if your stomach begins to feel a bit
funny. After the first 24 hours the problem is likely to dissappear.

I can get seasick in a very short time. However, I have always managed to
prevent the decent into hell by getting onto deck quickly, and concentrating
on the horizon. If I get on deck quickly enough, I am fully recovered in
under a minute. I once took 20 minutes .... and it was touch and go for
most of it!!


Enjoy your (non-boating friend's) cruise.



Regards


Donal
--

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
I have a non-boating friend who's going on a cruise next
week. He's concerned about seasickness. I told him ginger is
a good cure. I bought him a box of Ginger Snaps ( more for a
joke ). Should he start munching on these before he steps
onboard or wait till / if he feels bad?

I'll add my opinion to all the rest.

Seasickness is 50% physical and 50% in the mind. It is triggered by
confusion between the signals from the eyes and ears(balance).

The treatment for the physical 50% is easy. Get Stugeron. Take *half* a
tablet one hour before setting sail. A whole tablet seems to cause
uncomfortable drowsiness.

The treatment for the "in the mind" side is also quite simple. Look at
the
horizon .... this will synchronise the signals from the eyes and ears. On
a
sailboat, this is easy. However, on a cruise ship this will be a bit more
difficult. If it is at all rough, then you should stay on the upper decks
where you can look at the horizon if your stomach begins to feel a bit
funny. After the first 24 hours the problem is likely to dissappear.

I can get seasick in a very short time. However, I have always managed to
prevent the decent into hell by getting onto deck quickly, and
concentrating
on the horizon. If I get on deck quickly enough, I am fully recovered in
under a minute. I once took 20 minutes .... and it was touch and go for
most of it!!


Enjoy your (non-boating friend's) cruise.



Regards


Donal
--

I once puked coming through the companion way on my way to the side. Another
time, I got puked on when someone else should have stayed topside but
decided to go below.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Donal" wrote in message
...

I'll add my opinion to all the rest.

Seasickness is 50% physical and 50% in the mind. It is triggered by
confusion between the signals from the eyes and ears(balance).

The times I have been seasick, it was when I didn't get enough rest before
getting underway. The previous day were spent running hither and yon for the
last minute provisioning, rechecking the boat, and of course the bon voyage
party. I know this varies from the original post about the cruise ship, but
getting a lot of rest and a good night's sleep before going aboard will help
as they will be well rested. I had a friend who would leave the dock and go
to first anchorage close by, out of sight of the marina, drop the hook and
go to bed. He would get up at first light and then start his voyage.

Leanne
s/v Fundy

"Bob" wrote in message


and the placebo rated 45%.
Beliefs are powerful.

Geeze.......... 45%!?!?!

But I gotta ask who were the test subjects? Were they or had been SSRI
users?

If so I would think the study was skewed with a bunch of head cases. I
just can not believe that 45% of the general population would say they
felt better after swalling a sugar cube.


Placebo effects are interesting, and the effects can be large, but vary with
type of intervention and condition.

As an example, some years ago I read a trial of the different placebo
effects of different coloured pills- white ones didn't have much of an
effect, red and yellow a bit more, pink, candy-striped and other wilder
colours a bit more again, but the best of the lot were the black pills!

Likewise physical interventions like back manipulation/ acupuncture etc have
a higher placebo effect than simply taking a pill.

Also, the condition treated affects the placebo response- for example trials
of migraine remedies often exhibit a placebo response of over 50%, but it is
not sustained over time. I suspect seasickness would have a high placebo
response.

All this explains why we in medicine go to the trouble of double blinded,
placebo controlled trials to take out the errors of observer bias and
placebo response.

Peter HK (physician)

"Donal" wrote
Seasickness is 50% physical and 50% in the mind. It is
triggered by
confusion between the signals from the eyes and
ears(balance).

The treatment for the physical 50% is easy. Get Stugeron.
Take *half* a
tablet one hour before setting sail. A whole tablet seems
to cause
uncomfortable drowsiness.

The treatment for the "in the mind" side is also quite
simple. Look at the
horizon .... this will synchronise the signals from the
eyes and ears. On a
sailboat, this is easy. However, on a cruise ship this
will be a bit more
difficult. If it is at all rough, then you should stay on
the upper decks
where you can look at the horizon if your stomach begins
to feel a bit
funny. After the first 24 hours the problem is likely to
dissappear.

I can get seasick in a very short time. However, I have
always managed to
prevent the decent into hell by getting onto deck quickly,
and concentrating
on the horizon. If I get on deck quickly enough, I am
fully recovered in
under a minute. I once took 20 minutes .... and it was
touch and go for
most of it!!


Enjoy your (non-boating friend's) cruise.


Thanks, I will.

Scotty