Don White wrote:



Aren't you related to a Canuck now? Get some Gravol, best stuff on the
planet, but you can't get in 'merica.

Cheers
Marty

Good old over the counter Gravol, or the 'no-name- versions of it.
This stuff makes me drowsy also.

The packaging does carry that warning, I can't speak from personal
experience, so far I've not had a problem, (he says with fingers
crossed).

Cheers
Marty

Mythbusters did a piece recently on non-prescription (over the counter)
antidotes to seasickness. It included those wrist bands, various
concoctions and ginger. Only ginger worked. We always carry ginger root on
board as well as ginger beer (not ginger ale). The prescription drugs also
worked but left people drowsy or even spaced out.

Gogarty wrote:
Mythbusters did a piece recently on non-prescription (over the counter)
antidotes to seasickness. It included those wrist bands, various
concoctions and ginger. Only ginger worked. We always carry ginger root on
board as well as ginger beer (not ginger ale). The prescription drugs also
worked but left people drowsy or even spaced out.

On that same show they tested 2 people and 1 said that the drug that
worked best was the placebo (sugar pill). Of course when they tested
him, they told him that it was a new drug and he didn't get sick at
all. That tells me for some it is a mind game. If you feel relaxed
and believe it what you are taking will cure you, you will be fine.

I have horrible memories as a child, first time out far and getting
really sick. It stuck with me for awhile, until one day, someone I was
fishing with started to get sick and I was laughing (which is customary
on a fishing boat) and for some reason I haven't gotten sick since. I
don't know if seeing someone else get sick and laughing took my mind
off it long enough for me to forget my fear or what, but I do fine now
(of course I'll go out tomorrow and barf my brains out now that I made
this public).

FishinJC wrote:
The prescription drugs also
worked but left people drowsy or even spaced out.

In all these post the one thing that i have not read is a quantitative
description of the sea state (that's using numbers for all the
sailing.asa readers).

So a drug left people drowsy or even spaced out. Personally after
heaving my guts out for two days then totally dehydrated and
incapacitated for days 3&4 I would most certainly take the drowsy and
even spaced out option. Granted the sea state that caused my marathon
puke fest was extreme. So take the drugs and get er dun.

On that same show they tested 2 people and 1 said that the drug that
worked best was the placebo (sugar pill). Of course when they tested
him, they told him that it was a new drug and he didn't get sick at
all. That tells me for some it is a mind game. If you feel relaxed
and believe it what you are taking will cure you, you will be fine.

This is an excellent point................ What is the expected placebo
effect for any given sample/study group? Cant remember but I think the
folks who submit to the NJM mentioned, maybe 6%-12% of people are head
cases.

Anybody know the typical expected placebo effect for humans?

Bob

Sea state matters, as does the size of the vessel in the sea state. Even
so, the first cruise I ever took with my wife to be was a large
passenger ship where the sea state was mill pond. She was very, very
sick. But that was it. Our honeymoon was eleven days at sea on an even
larger ship in some horrendous weather where the ship clnaged like a
gong and we have been sailing on our own boat for years. Never another
problem for either of us thugh we have had the occasional guest for whom
the day was no fun at all. Even busted up one romance. He got sick; she
did not.

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:40:36 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

Sea state matters, as does the size of the vessel in the sea state.

And the type and amplitude of motion that the vessel generates.

There are 40 footers with a very solid motion and there are others
that generate a weird cork screw effect.

Guess which one is worse, I'm getting queasy just thinking about it.

Bob opined:
On that same show they tested 2 people and 1 said that the drug that
worked best was the placebo (sugar pill). Of course when they tested
him, they told him that it was a new drug and he didn't get sick at
all. That tells me for some it is a mind game. If you feel relaxed
and believe it what you are taking will cure you, you will be fine.


This is an excellent point................ What is the expected placebo
effect for any given sample/study group? Cant remember but I think the
folks who submit to the NJM mentioned, maybe 6%-12% of people are head
cases.

Anybody know the typical expected placebo effect for humans?

Bob

A few years ago there was a widely published study (released to the news
media) that pitted placebo against the well known SSRI's like Paxil,
etc. What they found was that several drugs made people worse, the drug
that worked the best scored a 15% improvement (subjective, rated by the
patients on standardized scoresheets) and the placebo rated 45%.

Evidently, since the brain controls the body, and the mind controls the
brain - then changing the mind can change the body's responses. This is
borne out by studies of people with multiple personalities: several
documented cases of M.P's have a serious disease in the body during the
manifestation of one personality, but not during another. One case I
remember reading about the patient had type I diabetes (non-insulin
producing) in one personality, but produced normal levels of insulin in
another personality as measured during blood tests.

A good demonstration is when a hypnotist has the subject believe they
are as stiff as a board, and is then placed horizontally over two chairs
- one under the head, the other under the feet. Then the hypnotist
stands on the suspended person's belly with no apparent strain by the
subject to hold him up for an extended time period. Most demonstration
subjects report that they felt no strain or effort during the
demonstration. Beliefs are powerful.

Sailaway wrote:
A few years ago there was a widely published study (released to the news
media) that pitted placebo against the well known SSRI's like Paxil,
etc. What they found was that several drugs made people worse, the drug
that worked the best scored a 15% improvement (subjective, rated by the
patients on standardized scoresheets) and the placebo rated 45%.
Beliefs are powerful.

Geeze.......... 45%!?!?!

But I gotta ask who were the test subjects? Were they or had been SSRI
users?

If so I would think the study was skewed with a bunch of head cases. I
just can not believe that 45% of the general population would say they
felt better after swalling a sugar cube.

But hey, may be I am just ignorant and not in touch with my inner
spiritual healing center. I'll sell my boat buy an 18' teepee, eat
tofu, shove alfalfa up my ass, and find some fat chick with hairy legs
to share my spiritual quest while living on USFS land and collecting
food stamps?

SantaCruze-SF-Ashland-Eugene.....

"Bob" wrote in message


and the placebo rated 45%.
Beliefs are powerful.

Geeze.......... 45%!?!?!

But I gotta ask who were the test subjects? Were they or had been SSRI
users?

If so I would think the study was skewed with a bunch of head cases. I
just can not believe that 45% of the general population would say they
felt better after swalling a sugar cube.


Placebo effects are interesting, and the effects can be large, but vary with
type of intervention and condition.

As an example, some years ago I read a trial of the different placebo
effects of different coloured pills- white ones didn't have much of an
effect, red and yellow a bit more, pink, candy-striped and other wilder
colours a bit more again, but the best of the lot were the black pills!

Likewise physical interventions like back manipulation/ acupuncture etc have
a higher placebo effect than simply taking a pill.

Also, the condition treated affects the placebo response- for example trials
of migraine remedies often exhibit a placebo response of over 50%, but it is
not sustained over time. I suspect seasickness would have a high placebo
response.

All this explains why we in medicine go to the trouble of double blinded,
placebo controlled trials to take out the errors of observer bias and
placebo response.

Peter HK (physician)

Bob wrote:
Geeze.......... 45%!?!?!

But I gotta ask who were the test subjects? Were they or had been SSRI
users?

If so I would think the study was skewed with a bunch of head cases. I
just can not believe that 45% of the general population would say they
felt better after swalling a sugar cube.
Snip

Hi Bob,
I don't recall all the details of the study , I just had the small
newspaper article about it a few years ago. From what I recollect all
the patients were people who had mild depression, which is what SSRI's
are generally supposed to be for. I don't recall if the article stated
if the patients had experience using SSRI's prior to the study.