Two questions:

1. Remote Solenoid switch

My Seaward propane switch is powered from the main panel supply. But this
could be a potential safety problem. If the main panel switch/breaker trips
or is accidentally switched on and off, the propane solenoid will switch on
and off and could cause propane to flow to an unlit stove.

Should the propane switch be hot wired from the house battery?

2. Propane Detectors

My propane detectors (have two) are powered from a fused switch on the main
panel. This means we must remember to turn them on before activating the
propane solenoid.

Should the detectors be:
- hot wired to the battery like bilge pump (not good because of continuous
battery drain.)
- wired to main battery switch (so they come on whenever we have power
turned on from house batteries)
- wired so they activate when solenoid switch is turned on (probably not
good due to start-up delay in detectors.)

Does ABYC address this? How are modern boats wired for propane? (OK - that
two more questions )

GBM

I am building my retirement power cat... The propane bottles will be in
a ventilated locker on deck... My schematic shows the electrical
solenoid to the propane bottle(s) to be operated by a switch on a
mechanical timer... Twist it on for a 1 or 2 hour setting and go to
cooking... If you forget to turn it off afterwards it will take care of
itself..

denny

"GBM" wrote in message
...
Two questions:

1. Remote Solenoid switch

My Seaward propane switch is powered from the main panel supply. But this
could be a potential safety problem. If the main panel switch/breaker
trips
or is accidentally switched on and off, the propane solenoid will switch
on
and off and could cause propane to flow to an unlit stove.

Should the propane switch be hot wired from the house battery?

2. Propane Detectors

My propane detectors (have two) are powered from a fused switch on the
main
panel. This means we must remember to turn them on before activating the
propane solenoid.

Should the detectors be:
- hot wired to the battery like bilge pump (not good because of continuous
battery drain.)
- wired to main battery switch (so they come on whenever we have power
turned on from house batteries)
- wired so they activate when solenoid switch is turned on (probably not
good due to start-up delay in detectors.)

Does ABYC address this? How are modern boats wired for propane? (OK - that
two more questions )

GBM



My Seaward propane switch

You mean solenoid, not switch, correct?
You can't connect the solenoid directly to any battery without first putting
in a switch. Having the solenoid activate whenever you switch on the main
panel does not sound like a good idea. You are not going to have gas coming
out of the stove unless someone has left a burner turned on but this could
happen. I would put in a switch on the main panel or a switch at the stove.
If you want to be real safe put in two switches, one at the master panel and
one at the stove. You can be even safer by spending lots of money and
buying a new stove that has safety shutoffs on all burners.
The propane detector I have draws something like 0.1 amps. I don't think I
would worry too much about connecting 2 of them directly to a house bank. A
small solar panel would take care of this draw.

Question#1-
My force 10 stove has thermocouple shut-offs at each burner which don't
allow fuel to flow if the flame goes out. My understanding is that this
is a requirement on all current marine propane devices , but you should
check.

The propane solenoid switch should be within easy reaching distance of
the appliance, but not over the flame area. (my memory of the ABYC
standard). If you use a switch with an indicator light built-in, you
shouldn't forget and leave the propane on.

My soleniod switch/circuit picks up power from the cabin accessory
circuit, and the surveyors have had no quibbles with it.

Direct wiring to the battery, rather than via the breaker panel, is
generally reserved for things like emergency bilge pumps and radios, if
then.

John

GBM wrote:
Two questions:

1. Remote Solenoid switch

My Seaward propane switch is powered from the main panel supply. But this
could be a potential safety problem. If the main panel switch/breaker trips
or is accidentally switched on and off, the propane solenoid will switch on
and off and could cause propane to flow to an unlit stove.

Should the propane switch be hot wired from the house battery?

2. Propane Detectors

My propane detectors (have two) are powered from a fused switch on the main
panel. This means we must remember to turn them on before activating the
propane solenoid.

Should the detectors be:
- hot wired to the battery like bilge pump (not good because of continuous
battery drain.)
- wired to main battery switch (so they come on whenever we have power
turned on from house batteries)
- wired so they activate when solenoid switch is turned on (probably not
good due to start-up delay in detectors.)

Does ABYC address this? How are modern boats wired for propane? (OK - that
two more questions )

GBM

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:49:24 -0400, "GBM"
wrote:

Two questions:

1. Remote Solenoid switch

My Seaward propane switch is powered from the main panel supply. But this
could be a potential safety problem. If the main panel switch/breaker trips
or is accidentally switched on and off, the propane solenoid will switch on
and off and could cause propane to flow to an unlit stove.

The burners should be left in the "off" position when the stove is not
in use, so you don't depend on the solenoid being off to stop the flow
of propane. (I had a solenoid valve that didn't close completely, due
to some junk in it). Most propane stoves have built-in safety devices
that will prevent the burners from passing propane if they are not
lit.

Should the propane switch be hot wired from the house battery?

The propane solenoid should be controlled through the propane
detectors.

2. Propane Detectors

My propane detectors (have two) are powered from a fused switch on the main
panel. This means we must remember to turn them on before activating the
propane solenoid.

Should the detectors be:
- hot wired to the battery like bilge pump (not good because of continuous
battery drain.)
- wired to main battery switch (so they come on whenever we have power
turned on from house batteries)
- wired so they activate when solenoid switch is turned on (probably not
good due to start-up delay in detectors.)

Does ABYC address this? How are modern boats wired for propane? (OK - that
two more questions )

I believe that ABYC requires the propane solenoid valve to be
controlled by the propane detector.


GBM


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

GBM wrote:
Two questions:

1. Remote Solenoid switch
...

I have a switch near the stove, and another at the breaker panel -
being a cat its appropriate to be able to shut it off from either
hull. Given that either of these two could momentarily shut off the
gas, it would seem that the only solution is to do all of the following:
a) never leave the stove unattended
b) appreciate what what happens if a switch is turned off and on
c) have a sniffer running whenever gas might be used
d) have a thermostatic shutoff on the stove

Following all of these most of the time should provide a large enough
safety margin - there's no way to guarantee everything will be
followed 100% of the time.

BTW, although my safety procedures are often a bit lax, one thing we
insist on is that the propane is shut off immediately when the stove
is off.




2. Propane Detectors


Should the detectors be:
- hot wired to the battery like bilge pump (not good because of continuous
battery drain.)

doesn't feel right

- wired to main battery switch (so they come on whenever we have power
turned on from house batteries)

maybe, but still doesn't feel right

- wired so they activate when solenoid switch is turned on (probably not
good due to start-up delay in detectors.)

assuming you have spare switches, put the gas in series with the
sniffer, so you can sniff without gas, but can't turn on the gas
without the sniffer.


Does ABYC address this? How are modern boats wired for propane? (OK - that
two more questions )

GBM

"Gordon Wedman" wrote My Seaward propane switch

You mean solenoid, not switch, correct?

No Gord - I did mean switch.

I have a Seaward mini panel that includes the switch and a fuse - it is
mounted in the nav station which is near the galley. When switched it
activates the solenoid that is in the propane locker.

GBM

"John" wrote in message
oups.com...
Question#1-
My force 10 stove has thermocouple shut-offs at each burner which don't
allow fuel to flow if the flame goes out. My understanding is that this
is a requirement on all current marine propane devices , but you should
check.

This is the ideal situation if the devices are reliable. But, older propane
stoves don't have this feature.

If you use a switch with an indicator light built-in, you
shouldn't forget and leave the propane on.

True, but the question related to safeguarding against switching the power
off and then back on. The solenoid cuts off flow, the flame goes out, then
the flow comes back on with no flame. It happened to someone - Not me!


My soleniod switch/circuit picks up power from the cabin accessory
circuit, and the surveyors have had no quibbles with it.

That is reason for my question - I have seen many boats wired same as mine,
and it could be unsafe.


Direct wiring to the battery, rather than via the breaker panel, is
generally reserved for things like emergency bilge pumps and radios, if
then.

Don't see why radio would be direct connected, but bilge pump is a safety
device that needs it's own power. Perhaps propane solenoid is too?

GBM

"Peter Bennett" wrote

The burners should be left in the "off" position when the stove is not
in use, so you don't depend on the solenoid being off to stop the flow
of propane. (I had a solenoid valve that didn't close completely, due
to some junk in it). Most propane stoves have built-in safety devices
that will prevent the burners from passing propane if they are not
lit.

Peter - I was talking about a situation where propane is accidentally
switched off and then back on (by switching power to main panel on and off)
while stove is IN USE! Many older propane stoves do not have the safety
burner shut-offs. And many do not have the detectors linked to the
solenoid - they just act as alarms.


Does ABYC address this? How are modern boats wired for propane? (OK -
that
two more questions )

I believe that ABYC requires the propane solenoid valve to be
controlled by the propane detector.


I would be interested to know just what they say.

Thanks for your input!

GBM

"Jeff" wrote

I have a switch near the stove, and another at the breaker panel -
being a cat its appropriate to be able to shut it off from either
hull. Given that either of these two could momentarily shut off the
gas, it would seem that the only solution is to do all of the following:
a) never leave the stove unattended
b) appreciate what what happens if a switch is turned off and on
c) have a sniffer running whenever gas might be used
d) have a thermostatic shutoff on the stove

Have a problem with last one for an old stove!

2. Propane Detectors

assuming you have spare switches, put the gas in series with the
sniffer, so you can sniff without gas, but can't turn on the gas
without the sniffer.

I don't like this - The detectors take a minute or so to initialize and
confirm things are safe. I want the detectors to be on and the area safe,
BEFORE I turn on the propane and light the stove. To do this, I should
probably connect sniffers to the main panel feed.

Thanks for the input!

GBM