Roger Long wrote:
This has got to be the way to do it for roller jibs or other headsails
you don't need to detach for quick sheet changes. With the trick I've
been trying to dredge out of my memory, it is very clean.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Strider0603.htm#sheet

The clump of rope (which will be smaller with the actual sheets) could
still give you a good rap on the noggin but it actually pads the
hardware in the corner of the sail. Knots right at the clew should
also be less painful than bowline knots which can pick up some extra
flick speed due to the slack.

Is it my imagination or is the second sheet captured only by a loop of
the first, and thus could pull it apart? I'm sure there's a way of
avoiding this ... but it illudes me right now.

"Jeff" wrote
Is it my imagination or is the second sheet captured only by a loop
of the first, and thus could pull it apart? I'm sure there's a way
of avoiding this ... but it illudes me right now.

It's your imagination (or lack thereof right at this moment). Both
loops are held by their own standing parts. It's hard to convey in
the pictures but will be come clear if you fiddle with a couple of
spliced loops.

BTW I know that most of you don't have problems with bowlines and
other knots hanging up on the shrouds. I don't either when I'm
sailing alone or with an experienced crew. A lot of my sailing is
with people, often kids, that I'm trying to talk through the process
and poor timing of the steering and line handling makes a big
difference. I hate to see that wincher grinding for all he or she is
worth when all the strain is being taken by the foreward lowers as I
try to get the hesitant helmsman to give her another quarter turn.

--

Roger Long

Roger,
A thought, maybe your original intent, don't know. Anyway, being slow it
just occurred to me.
Make up one sheet with your largish eye splice that get threaded through the
cringle and doubled back.
Make up another sheet that has its eye splice through the first sheet's eye
splice. (I'm assuming this is possible never having come close to mastering
double braid splicing)
This has the potential of reducing the mass of line to pull across the
shrouds.
BF



"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote
Is it my imagination or is the second sheet captured only by a loop
of the first, and thus could pull it apart? I'm sure there's a way
of avoiding this ... but it illudes me right now.

It's your imagination (or lack thereof right at this moment). Both
loops are held by their own standing parts. It's hard to convey in
the pictures but will be come clear if you fiddle with a couple of
spliced loops.

BTW I know that most of you don't have problems with bowlines and
other knots hanging up on the shrouds. I don't either when I'm
sailing alone or with an experienced crew. A lot of my sailing is
with people, often kids, that I'm trying to talk through the process
and poor timing of the steering and line handling makes a big
difference. I hate to see that wincher grinding for all he or she is
worth when all the strain is being taken by the foreward lowers as I
try to get the hesitant helmsman to give her another quarter turn.

--

Roger Long

You wouldn't want to pull on an eye splice that way. It would be very
prone to coming apart.

--

Roger Long



"BF" wrote in message
...
Roger,
A thought, maybe your original intent, don't know. Anyway, being
slow it
just occurred to me.
Make up one sheet with your largish eye splice that get threaded
through the
cringle and doubled back.
Make up another sheet that has its eye splice through the first
sheet's eye
splice. (I'm assuming this is possible never having come close to
mastering
double braid splicing)
This has the potential of reducing the mass of line to pull across
the
shrouds.
BF



"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote
Is it my imagination or is the second sheet captured only by a
loop
of the first, and thus could pull it apart? I'm sure there's a
way
of avoiding this ... but it illudes me right now.

It's your imagination (or lack thereof right at this moment). Both
loops are held by their own standing parts. It's hard to convey in
the pictures but will be come clear if you fiddle with a couple of
spliced loops.

BTW I know that most of you don't have problems with bowlines and
other knots hanging up on the shrouds. I don't either when I'm
sailing alone or with an experienced crew. A lot of my sailing is
with people, often kids, that I'm trying to talk through the
process
and poor timing of the steering and line handling makes a big
difference. I hate to see that wincher grinding for all he or she
is
worth when all the strain is being taken by the foreward lowers as
I
try to get the hesitant helmsman to give her another quarter turn.

--

Roger Long

Okay, see your point. Lets complicate matters a bit then.
One quite short line with a largish eye in one end that's looped through the
cringle and a smaller eye at the other end. Now splice the two sheets to
this smaller eye with the smallest of eyes.
Should pull across the shrouds cleanly.
BF


"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
You wouldn't want to pull on an eye splice that way. It would be very
prone to coming apart.

--

Roger Long



"BF" wrote in message
...
Roger,
A thought, maybe your original intent, don't know. Anyway, being
slow it
just occurred to me.
Make up one sheet with your largish eye splice that get threaded
through the
cringle and doubled back.
Make up another sheet that has its eye splice through the first
sheet's eye
splice. (I'm assuming this is possible never having come close to
mastering
double braid splicing)
This has the potential of reducing the mass of line to pull across
the
shrouds.
BF



"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote
Is it my imagination or is the second sheet captured only by a
loop
of the first, and thus could pull it apart? I'm sure there's a
way
of avoiding this ... but it illudes me right now.

It's your imagination (or lack thereof right at this moment). Both
loops are held by their own standing parts. It's hard to convey in
the pictures but will be come clear if you fiddle with a couple of
spliced loops.

BTW I know that most of you don't have problems with bowlines and
other knots hanging up on the shrouds. I don't either when I'm
sailing alone or with an experienced crew. A lot of my sailing is
with people, often kids, that I'm trying to talk through the
process
and poor timing of the steering and line handling makes a big
difference. I hate to see that wincher grinding for all he or she
is
worth when all the strain is being taken by the foreward lowers as
I
try to get the hesitant helmsman to give her another quarter turn.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
You wouldn't want to pull on an eye splice that way. It would be very
prone to coming apart.

Roger,
I remember a discussion like this in a book somewhere and the solution
they found was to use a single line with the jib cringle made fast in
the middle. After some looking on the Internet I found this article:
http://www.angelfire.com/de2/WIT/TJhalsheet.html

There is a couple of ideas there. I think that if you want no knot then
you have to come up with a way to splice an eye onto the clew in the
middle of the continuous sheet.

Gary

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote
Is it my imagination or is the second sheet captured only by a loop of
the first, and thus could pull it apart? I'm sure there's a way of
avoiding this ... but it illudes me right now.

It's your imagination (or lack thereof right at this moment). Both loops
are held by their own standing parts. It's hard to convey in the pictures
but will be come clear if you fiddle with a couple of spliced loops.

BTW I know that most of you don't have problems with bowlines and other
knots hanging up on the shrouds. I don't either when I'm sailing alone or
with an experienced crew. A lot of my sailing is with people, often kids,
that I'm trying to talk through the process and poor timing of the
steering and line handling makes a big difference. I hate to see that
wincher grinding for all he or she is worth when all the strain is being
taken by the foreward lowers as I try to get the hesitant helmsman to give
her another quarter turn.

Hmmm... well, I mostly sail with novices and students. They have to learn at
some point, and this is one of the things they need to learn... how to
prevent this from happening.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote

Hmmm... well, I mostly sail with novices and students. They have to
learn at some point, and this is one of the things they need to
learn... how to prevent this from happening.


Sure, but not having hang ups helps focus on other aspects of the
timing. Besides, lots of my deck apelets aren't actually ever going
to learn. They're just out for a good time and I like to give them
some experience of helping.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote

Hmmm... well, I mostly sail with novices and students. They have to learn
at some point, and this is one of the things they need to learn... how to
prevent this from happening.


Sure, but not having hang ups helps focus on other aspects of the timing.
Besides, lots of my deck apelets aren't actually ever going to learn.
They're just out for a good time and I like to give them some experience
of helping.

--

Roger Long

While it's true that there are other aspects of timing, I think it's
important that they be aware of the pitfalls of snags. It's not a big deal,
and the issue is soon put to rest.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote

While it's true that there are other aspects of timing, I think it's
important that they be aware of the pitfalls of snags. It's not a
big deal, and the issue is soon put to rest.

Agreed but I'm trying to figure out what works best and most smoothly,
same as everything else on the boat.

I'm curious though, do you think sheets that snag are essential to
have as a learning tool on a vessel where training is going on?

The founding chairman of the American Sail Training Association
Technical Committee and former board member dearly wants to know.

--

Roger Long