Tom, have you considered keeping the Atomic 4? Even if it can't be rebuilt,
it may make more sense to replace it with a working Atomic 4 than with a
diesel.

Safety is an issue that can and must be addressed in using gasoline, but
economically, a conversion to diesel will never make sense. As evidence of
this, compare the estimates of conversion cost to the cost of boats similar
to yours in size, age, and quality that already have diesels. You may find
it cheaper to buy a used boat with a diesel engine than to convert yours.
This will surely ignite some contrary opinions.

Good luck.

Chuck



Thomas Wentworth wrote:

A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat. It is in
good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.

What diesel engine would be the best replacement? How much do the diesels
cost? How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also
get replaced?

Any other info???


Thanks,,, Tom

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat.

You mean, for free?

... It is in good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.


I bet there's a lot of other stuff it "needs," too. But an
engine could well be the biggest single item.

What diesel engine would be the best replacement?

There's a drop-in diesel replacement for the Atomic 4, IIRC
it's called a Beta. Fits in exactly the same; but you also
need to put in a new fuel tank & piping.


... How much do the diesels
cost?

More than the boat.

... How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also
get replaced?


Shaft & prop, no. Pretty much everything else, yes.


ck wrote:
Tom, have you considered keeping the Atomic 4? Even if it can't be rebuilt,
it may make more sense to replace it with a working Atomic 4 than with a
diesel.


Depends on how bad you want to use the boat.

Safety is an issue that can and must be addressed in using gasoline, but
economically, a conversion to diesel will never make sense.

It makes good sense *if* you plan to use the boat for a long
enough time to amortize the diesel. Simply dropping in a
diesel will not raise the market value of the boat to cover
the cost of the new diesel engine, agreed. But then, that's
true of every kind of upgrade for the boat, especially
electronics... and people go hog-wild over all that stuff.



.... As evidence of
this, compare the estimates of conversion cost to the cost of boats similar
to yours in size, age, and quality that already have diesels. You may find
it cheaper to buy a used boat with a diesel engine than to convert yours.

Possibly so, unless he is getting the Vanguard as a gift.


This will surely ignite some contrary opinions.


Was this one contrary enough for ya?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Thomas Wentworth wrote:

A friend has offered me his old Pearson Vanguard 33' sailboat.


You mean, for free?

... It is in good shape.
But, it needs a new engine. It has the original Atomic 4 gas.


I bet there's a lot of other stuff it "needs," too. But an engine could
well be the biggest single item.

What diesel engine would be the best replacement?


There's a drop-in diesel replacement for the Atomic 4, IIRC it's called
a Beta. Fits in exactly the same; but you also need to put in a new fuel
tank & piping.


... How much do the diesels
cost?


More than the boat.

... How much work is it the replace an old Atomic 4 in a 1968 year
sailboat? When replacing the engine, does the shaft, fuel tank etc also
get replaced?


Shaft & prop, no. Pretty much everything else, yes.


ck wrote:

Tom, have you considered keeping the Atomic 4? Even if it can't be
rebuilt,
it may make more sense to replace it with a working Atomic 4 than with a
diesel.


Depends on how bad you want to use the boat.

Safety is an issue that can and must be addressed in using gasoline, but
economically, a conversion to diesel will never make sense.


It makes good sense *if* you plan to use the boat for a long enough time
to amortize the diesel. Simply dropping in a diesel will not raise the
market value of the boat to cover the cost of the new diesel engine,
agreed. But then, that's true of every kind of upgrade for the boat,
especially electronics... and people go hog-wild over all that stuff.



.... As evidence of
this, compare the estimates of conversion cost to the cost of boats
similar
to yours in size, age, and quality that already have diesels. You may
find
it cheaper to buy a used boat with a diesel engine than to convert yours.


Possibly so, unless he is getting the Vanguard as a gift.


This will surely ignite some contrary opinions.


Was this one contrary enough for ya?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Lots of folks with old boats rip out the Atomics and replace them with
outboards. It gives back some stowage and is a cheap alternative if you
like to sail. Of course if you are a motor cruiser or you intend to
venture away from the coast the outboard option is less feasible. If
it's a free boat in good shape, I'd check out the various options. It
is a classic boat.

Lots of folks with old boats rip out the Atomics and replace them with
outboards. It gives back some stowage and is a cheap alternative if you
like to sail. Of course if you are a motor cruiser or you intend to
venture away from the coast the outboard option is less feasible. If
it's a free boat in good shape, I'd check out the various options. It
is a classic boat.

Yes, lots of people do this. Why not?

The boat is now 4 feet longer. That will cost you about $450 a year
more. EVERY YEAR. It may require a longer slip.

The boats designed as outboard models are quite different from the
inboard models. The outboard model that was designed so that the
outboard controls are accessable. They are not accessable on an
outboard bracket.

I watch people going out all the time who have no control of their
outboard. An accident waiting to happen.

Starting the engine on a bracket is a pain, the engine can get dunked in
a swell. A Vangard, with the overhang, just makes this aspect worse.

Is the transom strong enough for a bracket? You can't just bold a
bracket on any transom. Even though you see many done this way.

No, you can't "rip out the inboard and replace it with an outboard."
Even though there are many examples.

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:52:38 GMT, Jim wrote:

Is the transom strong enough for a bracket? You can't just bold a
bracket on any transom. Even though you see many done this way.

==========================

The transom on a Vanguard is darn near bullet proof, as is the rest of
the boat. If you are getting a really good deal (near free), and
everything else is in good condition, and you intend to keep it for
awhile, repowering might make sense. It will be far cheaper to put in
a rebuilt A4 but the diesel is a better long term choice. Repowering
with a new diesel, fuel tank replacement, new controls and guages will
probably run somewhere north of $12K. Rebuilt A4, might be less than
$3K.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:52:38 GMT, Jim wrote:


Is the transom strong enough for a bracket? You can't just bold a
bracket on any transom. Even though you see many done this way.


==========================

The transom on a Vanguard is darn near bullet proof, as is the rest of
the boat. If you are getting a really good deal (near free), and
everything else is in good condition, and you intend to keep it for
awhile, repowering might make sense. It will be far cheaper to put in
a rebuilt A4 but the diesel is a better long term choice. Repowering
with a new diesel, fuel tank replacement, new controls and guages will
probably run somewhere north of $12K. Rebuilt A4, might be less than
$3K.

If it's free, take without even worrying about the engine. Sail it and
tow it with the dinghy. Anything beats watching from the shore.

Gaz

Again, I'd recco rebuilding the A4 but you really can repower with a
diesel for less than 6K. I just looked on TADiesel web site and they
have a used 24 hp (Perkins I think) for $3950 guaranteed to work. It
has a new control panel too.
I repowered my 28' S2 going from a 6.5 hp Yanmar to a 13 hp Yanmar with
no problems. I also thought it'd be a drop in replacement but it
wasn't. I had top cut down the engine stringers but othetr than that
it went well and wasn't too hard.

Gary wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:52:38 GMT, Jim wrote:


Is the transom strong enough for a bracket? You can't just bold a
bracket on any transom. Even though you see many done this way.



==========================

The transom on a Vanguard is darn near bullet proof, as is the rest of
the boat. If you are getting a really good deal (near free), and
everything else is in good condition, and you intend to keep it for
awhile, repowering might make sense. It will be far cheaper to put in
a rebuilt A4 but the diesel is a better long term choice. Repowering
with a new diesel, fuel tank replacement, new controls and guages will
probably run somewhere north of $12K. Rebuilt A4, might be less than
$3K.

If it's free, take without even worrying about the engine. Sail it and
tow it with the dinghy. Anything beats watching from the shore.

Gaz

The best advice yet.

Jim wrote:



Lots of folks with old boats rip out the Atomics and replace them with
outboards. It gives back some stowage and is a cheap alternative if you
like to sail. Of course if you are a motor cruiser or you intend to
venture away from the coast the outboard option is less feasible. If
it's a free boat in good shape, I'd check out the various options. It
is a classic boat.

Yes, lots of people do this. Why not?

The boat is now 4 feet longer. That will cost you about $450 a year
more. EVERY YEAR. It may require a longer slip.

The boats designed as outboard models are quite different from the
inboard models. The outboard model that was designed so that the
outboard controls are accessable. They are not accessable on an
outboard bracket.

I watch people going out all the time who have no control of their
outboard. An accident waiting to happen.

Starting the engine on a bracket is a pain, the engine can get dunked in
a swell. A Vangard, with the overhang, just makes this aspect worse.

Is the transom strong enough for a bracket? You can't just bold a
bracket on any transom. Even though you see many done this way.

No, you can't "rip out the inboard and replace it with an outboard."
Even though there are many examples.
I think installing an outboard in place of an inboard engine lowers the
value of the boat. A comment from a friend was "outboards are either out
of the water or under when you really need them". Check around on prices
and as I said in an earlier reply a friend found a Tohatsu diesel new for
$4500 and did the install himself so the total cost was under $5000. If
you pay to get it done it will probably cost you closer to $10k.
--
Bill Boyher

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:42:03 +0000, Gary wrote:


Lots of folks with old boats rip out the Atomics and replace them with
outboards. It gives back some stowage and is a cheap alternative if you
like to sail.

Main problem with an outboard (apart from the other poster's comments) is
hobby-horsing: in any kind of sea, the outboard alternates from being
swamped to having the prop out of the water as the boat pitches.

Lloyd Sumpter
http://www.bcboatnet.org