In article , Chuck Cox
wrote:

Yes, this is an old thread coming back to life...

Back in December I wrote:
As part of a non-boating-related product, my company is designing what
amounts to an automatic 500w DC self-starting gasoline battery charger.
The charger is designed to be portable, unobtrusive and easy to
maintain. If the battery has sufficient charge, it can self-start, but
it can also be hand-started easily when necessary. It is designed to
automatically start and stop as necessary to keep a battery charged.

Having read postings here about cruisers running with reduced radar and
lighting at night in order to conserve battery power, it occured to me
that we could repackage the charger for marine use. It would be roughly
shoe-box sized and effectively silent unless you were sitting next to it
on a calm day. It seems like this would be useful for boats with no
genset and modest electrical loads (i.e. lights & electronics). When
connected to the battery it would automatically start up and and shut
down as necessary to maintain the charge. It could also be designed to
cooperate with external charge controllers.

It seems like it would be a useful product, but I found nothing like it
when I googled for obvious keywords. Does such a product already exist?
Would there be any interest in such a charger? I know I have been in
situations where it would have been useful.

Roger Long and several others then made very convincing arguments that
diesel would be the best fuel for this product. Well, my partner has
found an appropriate diesel motor and electric motor/generator. We are
putting together a test stand now and should get some real-world data
soon. My partner insists that lubrication is not a problem at any angle
of heel, but that is one thing we'll be taking a hard look at.

There are a couple of major variables that I'm still unclear on: how it
will get fuel and where it will be located. For fuel, I'm wondering if
it would be preferable to have its own fuel tank or to connect to the
main fuel system. For location, it could be a stand-alone unit that you
put on deck to operate, or a built-in unit that could operate without
getting in the way. Clearly these two issues are inter-related.

My original idea was to make it stand-alone with its own fuel tank. By
using a small fuel pump, we can locate the fuel tank beside the motor
instead of on top like most generators. This would make for a
low-profile package that would be less intrusive than a typical
generator, but you'd still have one more thing on deck to trip over.

So, if you were to put such a system on your boat, what would you prefer?

Depends. Is this going to be water cooled or air cooled? If water
cooled, sea water or fresh water with radiator or via heat exchanger?

I'm assuming air cooled as this is simplest for an engine. However, it
may be noisy and need access to ventilation so belowdecks may not be
ideal.

My preference would be for an integral tank that gravity-feeds the
engine. This is simplest and therefore cheapest. You can always use it
as a day tank and fill via dedicated line from the main tank, or rig up
a float switch to kick in a pump.

I too think this is a good idea and if the price was right, would buy
one. We built something similar to use on an island once, but it was
petrol powered and quite noisy, plus relatively inefficient. Used a
motorcycle permanent magnet alternator.

PDW

Peter Wiley wrote:
Depends. Is this going to be water cooled or air cooled? If water
cooled, sea water or fresh water with radiator or via heat exchanger?

Air cooled.

I'm assuming air cooled as this is simplest for an engine. However, it
may be noisy and need access to ventilation so belowdecks may not be
ideal.

The noise will be minimized since we can optimize the induction/exhaust
system for one fundamental frequency and amplitude. However, you are
right that it will make noise and require ventilation. I am
particularly concerned about exhaust gases. A built-in system would
almost certainly be more expensive to design and support, so we'd need
to see sufficient demand to justify it.

My preference would be for an integral tank that gravity-feeds the
engine. This is simplest and therefore cheapest. You can always use it
as a day tank and fill via dedicated line from the main tank, or rig up
a float switch to kick in a pump.

Does the higher profile of a gravity-fed system matter to you? Where
would you envision operating such a system on your boat?

Thanks for the feedback.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK

In article , Chuck Cox
wrote:

Peter Wiley wrote:
Depends. Is this going to be water cooled or air cooled? If water
cooled, sea water or fresh water with radiator or via heat exchanger?

Air cooled.

I'm assuming air cooled as this is simplest for an engine. However, it
may be noisy and need access to ventilation so belowdecks may not be
ideal.

The noise will be minimized since we can optimize the induction/exhaust
system for one fundamental frequency and amplitude. However, you are
right that it will make noise and require ventilation. I am
particularly concerned about exhaust gases.

If it operates belowdecks, it *has* to have some form of idiot-proof
exhaust to a weather deck.

A built-in system would
almost certainly be more expensive to design and support, so we'd need
to see sufficient demand to justify it.

My preference would be for an integral tank that gravity-feeds the
engine. This is simplest and therefore cheapest. You can always use it
as a day tank and fill via dedicated line from the main tank, or rig up
a float switch to kick in a pump.

Does the higher profile of a gravity-fed system matter to you?

No.

Where
would you envision operating such a system on your boat?

Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the
interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big
it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other
ideas.

PDW

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , Chuck Cox
wrote:
Where
would you envision operating such a system on your boat?

Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the
interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big
it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other
ideas.

If we use a fuel pump, it'll probably be about the size of a shoebox.
If we use gravity, it'll be maybe 50% taller. If there is no integral
tank, maybe 1/2 a shoebox. The intake and exhaust will probably be
under 1" in diameter. For short runs, appropriate tubing of that
diameter would suffice.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK

In article , Chuck Cox
wrote:

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , Chuck Cox
wrote:
Where
would you envision operating such a system on your boat?

Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the
interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big
it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other
ideas.

If we use a fuel pump, it'll probably be about the size of a shoebox.
If we use gravity, it'll be maybe 50% taller. If there is no integral
tank, maybe 1/2 a shoebox. The intake and exhaust will probably be
under 1" in diameter. For short runs, appropriate tubing of that
diameter would suffice.

OK, a deck locker would work nicely. The other place I'd look at
putting it was belowdecks and use a coupling to external exhaust. That
size, it's not going to use sufficient air from belowdecks to be a
problem.

There may be other applications for something like this. I can think of
one or 2 supplying power to remote field parties where solar either
doesn't provide sufficient current or isn't reliable due to cloud. I'm
in the marine science research business. If you can produce one of
these things for less than $1K I'd buy one straight off for work, just
to play with. I already have 12 Honda gensets....

PDW

If I can buy a reliable unit for under $1K, install it in my engine room,
cool with seawater, hook to existing fuel system, have an optional switch
for on/off/auto, keep my battery bank charged, I will buy one...if works
well, I will tell everyone I know. This is what I want...battery bank
charging but not a large generator such as commonly seen on larger
powerboats. Affordable quiet power.

Glenn.
s/v Seawing
www.seawing.net


"Chuck Cox" wrote in message
...
Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , Chuck Cox
wrote:
Where
would you envision operating such a system on your boat?

Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the
interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big
it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other
ideas.

If we use a fuel pump, it'll probably be about the size of a shoebox.
If we use gravity, it'll be maybe 50% taller. If there is no integral
tank, maybe 1/2 a shoebox. The intake and exhaust will probably be
under 1" in diameter. For short runs, appropriate tubing of that
diameter would suffice.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 05:36:23 GMT,
Glenn A. Heslop wrote:
If I can buy a reliable unit for under $1K, install it in my engine room,
cool with seawater, hook to existing fuel system, have an optional switch
for on/off/auto, keep my battery bank charged, I will buy one...if works
well, I will tell everyone I know. This is what I want...battery bank
charging but not a large generator such as commonly seen on larger
powerboats. Affordable quiet power.

Glenn.
s/v Seawing
www.seawing.net




ditto....

--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Those who live by the sword are shot by those who don't.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:23:19 -0500,
Chuck Cox wrote:
Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , Chuck Cox
wrote:
Where
would you envision operating such a system on your boat?

Probably, depending on size, in a dedicated locker aft, sealed from the
interior spaces similar to a locker for gas bottles. Tell me how big
it's likely to be, how much ventilation it needs and I may have other
ideas.

If we use a fuel pump, it'll probably be about the size of a shoebox.
If we use gravity, it'll be maybe 50% taller. If there is no integral
tank, maybe 1/2 a shoebox. The intake and exhaust will probably be
under 1" in diameter. For short runs, appropriate tubing of that
diameter would suffice.


You're looking at something about 12" long, and maybe 6" on width and
height? really? heck, that sounds great. Or am I misunderstanding?


--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles
as if she laid an asteroid.
-- Mark Twain

Jim Richardson wrote:
You're looking at something about 12" long, and maybe 6" on width and
height? really? heck, that sounds great. Or am I misunderstanding?

That's about right.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK