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#1
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Alternator controller
I found in a wonderful resource I had not seen before,
http://www.practical-sailor.com/news...Questions4.pdf a reference today to a design in The 12 Volt Doctor's Practical Handbook for an alternator controller. It's not an easy book to get in the UK and I wonder if anyone who has a copy would be able to tell me more about the section of the book that deal with this project, or perhaps scan and mail it if it's not too long. Regards, Jerry (Remove the obvious from my address to mail me) |
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#2
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Jerry,
Doubt if it's the newest version but you could try: http://www.boten.nl/motoren/motoren_...lthandbook.pdf Regards, Len. On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:48:45 GMT, (The Floating Bear) wrote: The 12 Volt Doctor's Practical Handbook It's not an easy book to get in the UK |
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#4
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I think complex electronic regulators is a step in the wrong direction. The
whole idea of the Manual Alt. Control (MAC) is to override the standard alternator regulator. Reason being, the standard regulator starts 'tapering off' long before your battery is fully charged, assuming you will be running your engine for many hours, as in an automobile. The real world on a sail boat, you want to charge a large battery bank in short order so you can secure your engine and enjoy the piece and quiet of sailing or your anchorage. The MAC allows you to charge at a higher amperage until you observe the proper voltage level. It also allows you to raise this voltage for a short period for the occasional equalization charge. With care all of these functions can be accomplished with the simplest MAC. C.Plath, following Edgar Beyn's (author of 12volt Doctor's, etc) designs, developed the AutoMac and the AutoMac II which gradually became more complex. This complexity, however allowed semi automatic charging that is better suited to the needs of a boater with high demand and deep cycle batteries. I have been using the AutoMac II for 3 years and it works flawlessly. However, it will over work a automotive alternator since they aren't capable of producing their rated output for extended periods of time. Even at 80% of rated capacity I burned out two this summer. One went from overheated brushes and the other was due to burned out stator. I think I could have avoided the latter if I had installed the AutoMac temp sensor on the alternator case. (lost that some place over the years). The C.Plath AutoMac and AutoMac II is no longer made and I purchased mine over 10 years ago but only installed it on this boat 3 years ago. It is much more complex than the old MAC described in these books. It is solid state and well built, with mostly automatic function in all charging phases. Here is a link to the installation and operation manual for the AutoMac II. http://www.hctc.com/~esteve/INGRID%2...s/cplath~1.pdf Perhaps you may find one at a swap meet or on eBay. I know I don't want to sell mine. -- My experience and opinion, FWIW -- Steve s/v Good Intentions |
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#5
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It worked flawlessly but it cooked two alternators? Hmmmm ...
Clearly a "standard regulator" doesn't work for quick battery charging, but I've been impressed with my 3-stage (7 year old Xantrex 2000R) and a newer Balmar alternator. It bring the batteries (450 AH's) up to about 85% fairly quickly before tapering off. It starts a over 100 Amps, drops to about 85 for a long while. I would think if I tried to speed up the process at all, I would cook the batteries. The only advantage I see of the automac is that its cheaper, or would be if currently produced. Now that you mention it, maybe I should get one for my second engine; it still has the stock alternator which isn't up to the task. Steve wrote: I think complex electronic regulators is a step in the wrong direction. The whole idea of the Manual Alt. Control (MAC) is to override the standard alternator regulator. Reason being, the standard regulator starts 'tapering off' long before your battery is fully charged, assuming you will be running your engine for many hours, as in an automobile. The real world on a sail boat, you want to charge a large battery bank in short order so you can secure your engine and enjoy the piece and quiet of sailing or your anchorage. The MAC allows you to charge at a higher amperage until you observe the proper voltage level. It also allows you to raise this voltage for a short period for the occasional equalization charge. With care all of these functions can be accomplished with the simplest MAC. C.Plath, following Edgar Beyn's (author of 12volt Doctor's, etc) designs, developed the AutoMac and the AutoMac II which gradually became more complex. This complexity, however allowed semi automatic charging that is better suited to the needs of a boater with high demand and deep cycle batteries. I have been using the AutoMac II for 3 years and it works flawlessly. However, it will over work a automotive alternator since they aren't capable of producing their rated output for extended periods of time. Even at 80% of rated capacity I burned out two this summer. One went from overheated brushes and the other was due to burned out stator. I think I could have avoided the latter if I had installed the AutoMac temp sensor on the alternator case. (lost that some place over the years). The C.Plath AutoMac and AutoMac II is no longer made and I purchased mine over 10 years ago but only installed it on this boat 3 years ago. It is much more complex than the old MAC described in these books. It is solid state and well built, with mostly automatic function in all charging phases. Here is a link to the installation and operation manual for the AutoMac II. http://www.hctc.com/~esteve/INGRID%2...s/cplath~1.pdf Perhaps you may find one at a swap meet or on eBay. I know I don't want to sell mine. |
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#6
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"Jeff" wrote in message ... It worked flawlessly but it cooked two alternators? Hmmmm ... I don't blame the AutoMac II since I was charging into a 800ah battery bank that was at less than 50% at times and required several hours of heavy charging. Admittedly I was only using, 1st a 120amp alt. and replaced that with a 100amp. It should be noted that on either alternator, I only charged at 80% of their rated output and they still over heated. The AutoMac II is suppose to have a temp. sensor on the alternator but I lost mine somewhere in storage and Plath no longer has a replacement available. I tried the Balmar but that was a different type and not compatible with the controller. It is suppose to be a simple thermal switch similar to those on a AC frig. compressor. Steve s/v Good Intentions |
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#7
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#8
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"Steve" wrote in message om... I think complex electronic regulators is a step in the wrong direction. The whole idea of the Manual Alt. Control (MAC) is to override the standard alternator regulator. Reason being, the standard regulator starts 'tapering off' long before your battery is fully charged, assuming you will be running your engine for many hours, as in an automobile. The real world on a sail boat, you want to charge a large battery bank in short order so you can secure your engine and enjoy the piece and quiet of sailing or your anchorage. The MAC allows you to charge at a higher amperage until you observe the proper voltage level. It also allows you to raise this voltage for a short period for the occasional equalization charge. With care all of these functions can be accomplished with the simplest MAC. Most modern regulators (more accurately called a Charge Controller) do this automatically. One can't manually do as good a job as a good 3 stage automatic controller. That is, if you want to maximize the lifetime of the batteries as well as get a good charge in a minimum of time. I seen several boats that have trashed batteries trying to manually control charging. Just not worth it. C.Plath, following Edgar Beyn's (author of 12volt Doctor's, etc) designs, developed the AutoMac and the AutoMac II which gradually became more complex. This complexity, however allowed semi automatic charging that is better suited to the needs of a boater with high demand and deep cycle batteries. I have been using the AutoMac II for 3 years and it works flawlessly. However, it will over work a automotive alternator since they aren't capable of producing their rated output for extended periods of time. Even at 80% of rated capacity I burned out two this summer. One went from overheated brushes and the other was due to burned out stator. I think I could have avoided the latter if I had installed the AutoMac temp sensor on the alternator case. (lost that some place over the years). The C.Plath AutoMac and AutoMac II is no longer made and I purchased mine over 10 years ago but only installed it on this boat 3 years ago. It is much more complex than the old MAC described in these books. It is solid state and well built, with mostly automatic function in all charging phases. Here is a link to the installation and operation manual for the AutoMac II. http://www.hctc.com/~esteve/INGRID%2...s/cplath~1.pdf Perhaps you may find one at a swap meet or on eBay. I know I don't want to sell mine. -- My experience and opinion, FWIW -- Steve s/v Good Intentions |
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#9
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"The Floating Bear" wrote in message k... In article , (Steve) wrote: I think complex electronic regulators is a step in the wrong direction. My problem is that I am forgetful, and I can imagine that I would cook the battery or alternator too easily if I had to remember to do any switching. Mind you, I am talking about a 35A alternator on a Yanmar 1GM10 (replacement Japanese unit as the Yanmar one died comprehensively and it was the Devil's own job getting one that would fit. I think if I were doing it again, I would do the engineering to take something very standard like a Lucas or Bosch automotive unit. My batteries are an 80AH unit for engine starting and a 110AH service battery, so it's all a bit different from the serious installations that some people are discussing. However, it's only about 10 mins motoring from my mooring to where I start to sail, so I'd like to get charge in as quickly as I can. Mind you, when I switch in the service battery with the 0-1-2-both switch, I get a significant rev drop on the engine even with my poor little 35A alternator. However, a controller that let me get more of the 35A out usefully would be very handy. The modern charge controllers that I am familiar with all full-field the alternator during the bulk portion of the charge. Mine actually ramps the current up gradually over less than a minute to reduce stress on the system. The alternator is kept a full-field until the batteries reach the absorption voltage. The goal is to charge the batteries as quickly as is safe while looking out for the health of the batteries. A manual system can;t do any better. Also, temperature compensation is important as well if the batteries are expected to have a happy and healthy life. Doug The Plath AutoMAC II sounds just the thing - I don't suppose anyone has a circuit diagram and/or knows if the components would still be available? Regards, Jerry |
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#10
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"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message ... "Steve" wrote in message om... Most modern regulators (more accurately called a Charge Controller) do this automatically. One can't manually do as good a job as a good 3 stage automatic controller. That is, if you want to maximize the lifetime of the batteries as well as get a good charge in a minimum of time. I seen several boats that have trashed batteries trying to manually control charging. Just not worth it. Let me clearify, that the C.Plath AutoMacII is a three stag charge controler and the only thing that the operator need to manually set is the charge current (within the rated capacity of the alternator). If you back off to the minimum setting the alternator takes over. Now I agree that the MAC that is discribed in the 12volt Doctor's book is totally manual unless you reduce the setting to minimum, where the alternator takes over. This system does require operator attention during the charging process and could damage the batteries if not attended to properly. I built a MAC for my last boat, which I lived aboard at anchor. I only had a pair of Trojan 105s and minimal load requirements. I also had a pair of 56 watt solar panels and actual engine charging only occured once a week or so when I had been using the TV longer than I should. -- My experience and opinion, FWIW -- Steve s/v Good Intentions |
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