I found in a wonderful resource I had not seen before,

http://www.practical-sailor.com/news...Questions4.pdf

a reference today to a design in The 12 Volt Doctor's Practical Handbook
for an alternator controller. It's not an easy book to get in the UK and I
wonder if anyone who has a copy would be able to tell me more about the
section of the book that deal with this project, or perhaps scan and mail
it if it's not too long.

Regards,
Jerry (Remove the obvious from my address to mail me)

Jerry,

Doubt if it's the newest version but you could try:
http://www.boten.nl/motoren/motoren_...lthandbook.pdf

Regards, Len.



On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:48:45 GMT, (The
Floating Bear) wrote:
The 12 Volt Doctor's Practical Handbook
It's not an easy book to get in the UK

In article ,
(Len) wrote:

you could try:
http://www.boten.nl/motoren/motoren_...lthandbook.pdf

Many thanks - it makes interesting reading, but I can't help feeling that
the solutions he offers are rather out-of-date when compared to the
electronic regulator available nowadays. Unfortunately, they are not
cheap! I just missed a suitable Adverc controller on eBay that went for
nearly UKP100, which is getting on for USD200!

Does anyone know of any published electronic regulator designs that work
well?

Regards,
Jerry

I think complex electronic regulators is a step in the wrong direction. The
whole idea of the Manual Alt. Control (MAC) is to override the standard
alternator regulator. Reason being, the standard regulator starts 'tapering
off' long before your battery is fully charged, assuming you will be running
your engine for many hours, as in an automobile. The real world on a sail
boat, you want to charge a large battery bank in short order so you can
secure your engine and enjoy the piece and quiet of sailing or your
anchorage.

The MAC allows you to charge at a higher amperage until you observe the
proper voltage level. It also allows you to raise this voltage for a short
period for the occasional equalization charge. With care all of these
functions can be accomplished with the simplest MAC.

C.Plath, following Edgar Beyn's (author of 12volt Doctor's, etc) designs,
developed the AutoMac and the AutoMac II which gradually became more
complex. This complexity, however allowed semi automatic charging that is
better suited to the needs of a boater with high demand and deep cycle
batteries.

I have been using the AutoMac II for 3 years and it works flawlessly.
However, it will over work a automotive alternator since they aren't capable
of producing their rated output for extended periods of time. Even at 80% of
rated capacity I burned out two this summer. One went from overheated
brushes and the other was due to burned out stator. I think I could have
avoided the latter if I had installed the AutoMac temp sensor on the
alternator case. (lost that some place over the years).

The C.Plath AutoMac and AutoMac II is no longer made and I purchased mine
over 10 years ago but only installed it on this boat 3 years ago. It is much
more complex than the old MAC described in these books. It is solid state
and well built, with mostly automatic function in all charging phases.

Here is a link to the installation and operation manual for the AutoMac II.
http://www.hctc.com/~esteve/INGRID%2...s/cplath~1.pdf

Perhaps you may find one at a swap meet or on eBay. I know I don't want to
sell mine.


--
My experience and opinion, FWIW
--
Steve
s/v Good Intentions

It worked flawlessly but it cooked two alternators? Hmmmm ...

Clearly a "standard regulator" doesn't work for quick battery
charging, but I've been impressed with my 3-stage (7 year old Xantrex
2000R) and a newer Balmar alternator. It bring the batteries (450
AH's) up to about 85% fairly quickly before tapering off. It starts a
over 100 Amps, drops to about 85 for a long while. I would think if I
tried to speed up the process at all, I would cook the batteries.

The only advantage I see of the automac is that its cheaper, or would
be if currently produced. Now that you mention it, maybe I should get
one for my second engine; it still has the stock alternator which
isn't up to the task.


Steve wrote:
I think complex electronic regulators is a step in the wrong direction. The
whole idea of the Manual Alt. Control (MAC) is to override the standard
alternator regulator. Reason being, the standard regulator starts 'tapering
off' long before your battery is fully charged, assuming you will be running
your engine for many hours, as in an automobile. The real world on a sail
boat, you want to charge a large battery bank in short order so you can
secure your engine and enjoy the piece and quiet of sailing or your
anchorage.

The MAC allows you to charge at a higher amperage until you observe the
proper voltage level. It also allows you to raise this voltage for a short
period for the occasional equalization charge. With care all of these
functions can be accomplished with the simplest MAC.

C.Plath, following Edgar Beyn's (author of 12volt Doctor's, etc) designs,
developed the AutoMac and the AutoMac II which gradually became more
complex. This complexity, however allowed semi automatic charging that is
better suited to the needs of a boater with high demand and deep cycle
batteries.

I have been using the AutoMac II for 3 years and it works flawlessly.
However, it will over work a automotive alternator since they aren't capable
of producing their rated output for extended periods of time. Even at 80% of
rated capacity I burned out two this summer. One went from overheated
brushes and the other was due to burned out stator. I think I could have
avoided the latter if I had installed the AutoMac temp sensor on the
alternator case. (lost that some place over the years).

The C.Plath AutoMac and AutoMac II is no longer made and I purchased mine
over 10 years ago but only installed it on this boat 3 years ago. It is much
more complex than the old MAC described in these books. It is solid state
and well built, with mostly automatic function in all charging phases.

Here is a link to the installation and operation manual for the AutoMac II.
http://www.hctc.com/~esteve/INGRID%2...s/cplath~1.pdf

Perhaps you may find one at a swap meet or on eBay. I know I don't want to
sell mine.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
It worked flawlessly but it cooked two alternators? Hmmmm ...


I don't blame the AutoMac II since I was charging into a 800ah battery bank
that was at less than 50% at times and required several hours of heavy
charging. Admittedly I was only using, 1st a 120amp alt. and replaced that
with a 100amp. It should be noted that on either alternator, I only charged
at 80% of their rated output and they still over heated.

The AutoMac II is suppose to have a temp. sensor on the alternator but I
lost mine somewhere in storage and Plath no longer has a replacement
available. I tried the Balmar but that was a different type and not
compatible with the controller. It is suppose to be a simple thermal switch
similar to those on a AC frig. compressor.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

In article ,
(Steve) wrote:

I think complex electronic regulators is a step in the wrong direction.

My problem is that I am forgetful, and I can imagine that I would cook the
battery or alternator too easily if I had to remember to do any switching.
Mind you, I am talking about a 35A alternator on a Yanmar 1GM10
(replacement Japanese unit as the Yanmar one died comprehensively and it
was the Devil's own job getting one that would fit. I think if I were
doing it again, I would do the engineering to take something very standard
like a Lucas or Bosch automotive unit. My batteries are an 80AH unit for
engine starting and a 110AH service battery, so it's all a bit different
from the serious installations that some people are discussing. However,
it's only about 10 mins motoring from my mooring to where I start to sail,
so I'd like to get charge in as quickly as I can. Mind you, when I switch
in the service battery with the 0-1-2-both switch, I get a significant rev
drop on the engine even with my poor little 35A alternator. However, a
controller that let me get more of the 35A out usefully would be very
handy.

The Plath AutoMAC II sounds just the thing - I don't suppose anyone has a
circuit diagram and/or knows if the components would still be available?

Regards,
Jerry

"The Floating Bear" wrote in message
k...
In article ,
(Steve) wrote:

I think complex electronic regulators is a step in the wrong direction.

My problem is that I am forgetful, and I can imagine that I would cook the
battery or alternator too easily if I had to remember to do any switching.
Mind you, I am talking about a 35A alternator on a Yanmar 1GM10
(replacement Japanese unit as the Yanmar one died comprehensively and it
was the Devil's own job getting one that would fit. I think if I were
doing it again, I would do the engineering to take something very standard
like a Lucas or Bosch automotive unit. My batteries are an 80AH unit for
engine starting and a 110AH service battery, so it's all a bit different
from the serious installations that some people are discussing. However,
it's only about 10 mins motoring from my mooring to where I start to sail,
so I'd like to get charge in as quickly as I can. Mind you, when I switch
in the service battery with the 0-1-2-both switch, I get a significant rev
drop on the engine even with my poor little 35A alternator. However, a
controller that let me get more of the 35A out usefully would be very
handy.

The modern charge controllers that I am familiar with all full-field the
alternator
during the bulk portion of the charge. Mine actually ramps the current up
gradually over less than a minute to reduce stress on the system. The
alternator
is kept a full-field until the batteries reach the absorption voltage. The
goal is
to charge the batteries as quickly as is safe while looking out for the
health
of the batteries. A manual system can;t do any better. Also, temperature
compensation is important as well if the batteries are expected to have a
happy and healthy life.

Doug

The Plath AutoMAC II sounds just the thing - I don't suppose anyone has a
circuit diagram and/or knows if the components would still be available?

Regards,
Jerry

"The Floating Bear" wrote in message
k...

drop on the engine even with my poor little 35A alternator. However, a
controller that let me get more of the 35A out usefully would be very
handy.

I think something should be clarified here.

You can't get more amperage out of an alternator than it is rated. Your 35
amp alternator will only output something slightly less than 35 amps, no
matter what kind of charge controller you use.

The main advantage of the any charge controller is the ability to keep the
alternator charging at or near it's max. for a longer period of time, until
a charge level has been reached. The alternator regulator begins tapering
off at an earlier stage than is normal required for boat batteries and
engine run requirements.


--
My experience and opinion, FWIW
--
Steve
s/v Good Intentions

If you can hear a rev drop in your engine from the alternator, you are
already charging at close to its maximum output. I think the real issue
is that you are only charging 10 minutes at a time, not nearly enough
to bring the batteries back to full charge or close to it. I'd
recommend getting a solar panel which will keep the batteries topped
off at your mooring.